A New CFC Website??

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: A New CFC Website??

Not true. No web hosting company is going to supply software especially for $30/month.

mmmkay... So all those applications are imaginary????
There are about fifteen that I use regularly and probably another fifty that I don't. Most are open source.

Web hosting services like Cogeco provide the physical server and web serving software for your website. They might also include some software to make it easier for you to build a web site.

They have a lot of those. A lot more to maintain a site and databases and email and email lists to do web blasts and keep track of subscribers to your html newsletter etc.,..

But no one is going to debug your ASP code or instruct you on how to harden the security on your site for that sort of money.

I meant ASP support in the sense that you can run ASP and ASP.net on their servers not that they will debug your web pages for you though they do offer that service if you need it for an additional price.

Those are services that fall outside of web hosting.

Tell them, they don't seem to get that. Its one of the reasons that we went with them.

There are many good hosting services. The choice usually depends on what you need (IIS or LAMP) and what sort of customer service you want (for example, regular backups of your databases, etc.).

Actually they (Cogeco) seem to be indifferent as both IIS and LAMP seem to be on offer. They also offer automatic backups though it is good practice to do your own as well.

Pretty much you get what you pay for. If you go to a discount host (like GoDaddy), you get discount service.

The twenty four hour service persuaded me that the extra ten dollars a month was worth it.

For an organization like the CFC with database driven content (the ratings data), you're probably looking at $20 to $60 per month. The Scarborough Chess Club which uses a modern content management system costs $20 per month to host.

For $60 you can get the everything package but I think the $30 per month package is good enough.

Vladimir Drkulec

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: A New CFC Website??

P.S. You don't want to go with godaddy. Insanely slow, terrible customer service, and they actually block some scripts from running if they think they'll use up too many resources.

I speak from experience!

I heard some complaints about them too but they make good commercials... :D

I can still watch the commercials even though I use Cogeco.

Vladimir Drkulec

[Steve Karpik]

Re: A New CFC Website??

mmmkay... So all those applications are imaginary????
There are about fifteen that I use regularly and probably another fifty that I don't. Most are open source.

Oops. My fingers and brain got out of sync. I meant to say software *support* (missing one word from a sentence can definitely affect its meaning).

I can't say whether the hosting that the CFC is using is good or bad. Issues of hosting, etc. are not really central to the problem the CFC is facing.

Where we seem to have a definite weakness at the CFC is ASP knowledge. There's no excuse for the web site being "fixed" and then immediately hacked.

[Bob Armstrong]

The New Second Hacking of the Ratings Page

Hi Steve:

Because the ratings page has been hacked ( a new one ), you suggested to me at one point that the page should be taken off-line for the moment, so users don't get infected ( you said good anti-virus would likely protect most, but the CFC should not be letting its members take the risk ). Do you still feel this way? We have heard nothing from the Executive about this new infection since Governor Egis Zeromskis reported it the other day. What should the CFC be doing about this new infection/hacking?

Bob

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: A New CFC Website??

Oops. My fingers and brain got out of sync. I meant to say software *support* (missing one word from a sentence can definitely affect its meaning).

I can't say whether the hosting that the CFC is using is good or bad. Issues of hosting, etc. are not really central to the problem the CFC is facing.

Where we seem to have a definite weakness at the CFC is ASP knowledge. There's no excuse for the web site being "fixed" and then immediately hacked.

Okay that definitely makes more sense. I would assume that the CFC webmaster would be knowledgeable about the technologies that he or she supports.

I may be being a bit negative here but it seems to me that based on recent performances and statements coming out of the CFC camp that the people currently doing web support should stick to vanity sites with very simple tools that don't require a lot of thought and are not critical to a business like the CFC.

I don't see a new website being any less vulnerable than the current one if it is administered by the people that gave us this performance to date.

If the website is redesigned, I suggest that it be done by looking at a lot of websites, deciding what features are wanted and required and then hiring someone or some firm that actually know what they are doing and that have designed elegant sites of the complexity that the CFC requires before but what do I know?

I predict that Larry, Moe and Curly (or Shemp) web contractors and plumbing associates will be hired and will achieve predictable results. In Dilbert today the pointy haired boss came up with a profound statement in the final frame:

"If you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it."

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-09-22/

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: A New CFC Website??

What is to stop the CFC from posting ratings in a text list format sorted by province and last name? There could be another text listing of the tournaments rated. It would be similar in format to the ratings lists that used to come in the magazine.

A simple html page or a simple page with just a text file for download would be sufficient until the powers that be get their act together and figure out how to make the site less vulnerable. (I wouldn't advise holding your breath and waiting for that day to arrive.)

The other thing that is necessary is a listing of details of upcoming tournaments.

I am ready to give up on them but do expect some miniscule level of service for my CFC membership fee.

[Steve Karpik]

Re: The New Second Hacking of the Ratings Page

Hi Steve:

Because the ratings page has been hacked ( a new one ), you suggested to me at one point that the page should be taken off-line for the moment, so users don't get infected ( you said good anti-virus would likely protect most, but the CFC should not be letting its members take the risk ). Do you still feel this way? We have heard nothing from the Executive about this new infection since Governor Egis Zeromskis reported it the other day. What should the CFC be doing about this new infection/hacking?

Bob

We have Egis to thank for his detective work. Although there may be other sources, the vector for the malware attack is the ratings form. At the very least, the executive would be acting in a prudent fashion if they ordered that form removed temporarily from the web site. Other forms on the web site should be given a close inspection. What's the risk if this isn't done? It's hard to say because criminals don't usually advertise their objectives. Safe to say it is called malware because bad things can and do happen including in the worst cases identity theft.

I share Vlad's concern that "Larry, Moe and Curly Web Designers Inc." will be hired for the required follow up. A sad fact in the web business it that there are an awful lot of people who present themselves as experts. Maybe they're OK for vanity sites as Vlad says but they certainly shouldn't be building web sites for businesses. The tough thing is that it is not easy for non-web experts to discern a good web developer from an impostor. Unless you have some detailed knowledge, one chunk of code pretty much looks the same as any other and you're left focusing on things like how pretty the designs are that they present to you.

[Roger Blum]

Re: A New CFC Website??

I agree. In my opinion content maintenance is the only important problem. When you manage a website if people send you contents then 90% of the problems are solved. If many people send contents reguraly with some lists of changes then the job of the webmaster is 75% easier. He will always feel that it is too much but since the content is already built, he spend a few hours in the code without having to WRITE texts and the job is done.

Then please explain why there is so much outdated content on the CFC site, that is, whenever it is operational. It should be obvious that content management is difficult with the current site.

With a modern CMS, you don't need to touch a line of PHP, MySQL, or HTML unless you are trying to do something fancy. Everything is form-based - you maintain content from your web browser. This is the sort of solution the CFC needs. Also, with the popular CMSes like Drupal and Joomla, the work of fixing security holes is done by others, with the CFC site maintainers left with the task of applying updates (which is also quite painless).

There is a cost associated with doing all this, but it is also costly to leave the site in its current state. How many person-hours have been wasted with this latest fiasco?

[Bob Armstrong]

CFC Office Hours/Wk

Hi Roger:

I take it from what you say, that changes to the website will make content changes easier to do, and they will be able to be done faster.

But I fear that our problem has more to do with work hours available from our outsourcer, to do all the things the CFC office is required to carry out. Gerry can allot only 3.5 hours per week to the CFC ED job. And this apparently is supposed to be used only for " normal operations ", whatever that may cover. It appears that any " non-normal " services, of which I believe there are many to be provided by the CFC office, are supposed to be covered by the balance of the time to be alloted by the outsourcer ( I don't know if that is 1.5 hrs./wk by persons other than Gerry ). I have some fears that the outsourcing contract is restricting the CFC operations, and one of these is website content updating. It appears that the dealing with the recent hacking problem is being handled as a " non-normal " service under the contract, as far as I can tell ( perhaps the executive can clear this up for us if I am off-base on my understanding ).

I agree that the outdated content on the CFC website is likely the result of a bit of both of these factors: web technology & work hours available. But I fear web re-design/programming may only a part solution to the problem we have re outdated/disorganized content.

Bob

[John Brown]

Re: A New CFC Website??

Why not let Vincent Chow work on it for one month as he is familiar with some of the most recent problems.
Have him keep track of his hours. If he is accomplishing something at a reasonable time frame then tally his hours & rate of pay. If it will be a doable thing then get him to fix the rest. If it is going to be a big expense to continue then get a new system. But all this speculating on cost and man hours is not realistic. Start working on it right now to see if fixing is best or buying new is best.
Time is money and if you don't get it working soon there will be no memberships to pay for a new system. The longer it is down the less will renew memberships.

[John Coleman]

Re: CFC Office Hours/Wk

Gerry can allot only 3.5 hours per week to the CFC ED job. And this apparently is supposed to be used only for " normal operations ", whatever that may cover.

3.5 hours a week is barely enough time for coffee and bathroom visits. Should that be 3.5 DAYS per week?

[Bob Armstrong]

Re: CFC Office Hours/Wk

Hi John:

Yuppers ! oops.

Bob

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: A New CFC Website??

with the popular CMSes like Drupal and Joomla

May you show me a chess viewer plugin for Drupal and Joomla?
I was trying to find and to recomend a plugin for the CFC webzine (joomla; it is too late now) and GTCL website (drupal, still important), but no success. Thus for my needs I stucked with WordPress (it is more a blogging application than a CMS).

---
yes, I started to build the Ontario Chess Association (OCA) website. Right now is a design stage with an old text (not always correct). Not to disturb you I'm not giving a link :p However, if you (organizers) have tournaments in one or two month please send announcements to me oca@kris-egis.com
Also I'll take liberty to include even without your request if it will be posted elsewhere on internet. (it'll be a blog too ;)

[Steve Karpik]

Re: CFC Office Hours/Wk

I agree that the outdated content on the CFC website is likely the result of a bit of both of these factors: web technology & work hours available. But I fear web re-design/programming may only a part solution to the problem we have re outdated/disorganized content.

Bob

I think Roger has hit the nail on the head. An up-to-date, functioning web site is essential to organizations like the CFC today. Custom coded web solutions like what the CFC has today belong to a bygone era. I happen to favour DotNetNuke but any well supported Content Management System (Joomla, Drupal, DotNetNuke, etc.) liberate staff from coding concerns. They make the upkeep of a web site a content problem not a technology problem.

A small organization like the CFC can't afford to stick with yesterday's technologies. This isn't technology for technology's sake. A couple of years ago I rewrote the Scarborough Chess Club web site in DotNetNuke. After the work of transfering the web site from one platform to another, I now have a web site that is much easier to look after. Adding pages or sections or removing them is trivial in the new framework. I now do changes to the web site that I just wouldn't undertake before because it was to much a pain in the ass. Inertia is tough to overcome and there are Luddites who decry change but I wouldn't go back to my old web site for anything. We're making the same sorts of decisions in the web sites that I manage at my place of work. We want to spend more time creating content and less time managing it.

[Roger Blum]

Re: A New CFC Website??

May you show me a chess viewer plugin for Drupal and Joomla?
I was trying to find and to recomend a plugin for the CFC webzine (joomla; it is too late now) and GTCL website (drupal, still important), but no success. Thus for my needs I stucked with WordPress (it is more a blogging application than a CMS).

---
yes, I started to build the Ontario Chess Association (OCA) website. Right now is a design stage with an old text (not always correct). Not to disturb you I'm not giving a link :p However, if you (organizers) have tournaments in one or two month please send announcements to me oca@kris-egis.com
Also I'll take liberty to include even without your request if it will be posted elsewhere on internet. (it'll be a blog too ;)

For the Saskatoon Chess Club web site (http://scc.saskchess.com), I concocted a way to use the Chess Tempo viewer (http://chesstempo.com/). Check the Games section of the SCC site for examples. The site uses Drupal, but I'm sure something similar could be done with Joomla without too much difficulty.