The Niemann Thing. A Dirty Story!!!

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  • The Niemann Thing. A Dirty Story!!!


    https://www.breitbart.com/sports/202...g-anal-device/

  • #2
    For chess fans everywhere, this story is a real bummer.
    "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
    "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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    • #3
      This article looks good on Carlsen, he is ultimately responsible for it and he and chess deserve it. His conduct, and that of anyone who tossed Niemann under the bus, has been utterly shameful. Until and unless the suck fully apologizes or offers a legitimate explanation (which we know would be a lie to save face since he has already said that he cannot say anything thereby implicitly declaring Niemann guilty without offering any evidence) Carlsen should not be welcome to return to chess. We are fortunate that he has decided that he does not want to be world champion. Good riddance to the bum.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ken MacDonald View Post
        Sorry jkm ... I'm not clicking on that link ... doesn't pass the smell test, ha!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Brad Thomson View Post
          This article looks good on Carlsen, he is ultimately responsible for it and he and chess deserve it. His conduct, and that of anyone who tossed Niemann under the bus, has been utterly shameful. Until and unless the suck fully apologizes or offers a legitimate explanation (which we know would be a lie to save face since he has already said that he cannot say anything thereby implicitly declaring Niemann guilty without offering any evidence) Carlsen should not be welcome to return to chess. We are fortunate that he has decided that he does not want to be world champion. Good riddance to the bum.
          I don't think it's fair to come down so hard on Carlsen. Depending on where you subjectively pick your cutoff point, I think the vast majority of people visiting Chesstalk are not elite-level chess players, or elite-level participants in any sport for that matter. But I think we've all done enough playing, reading, talking/watching/listening/etc., to know that an elite athlete has to be 'in the zone' in order to perform at his/her best. The Sinquefeld Cup people extended an invitation to a self-admitted cheater. That fact alone was probably tough for the other participants to deal with during their pre-tournament mental prep. Then Carlsen loses to Niemann. Rather than assume that the ONLY reason Carlsen withdrew was because he suspected cheating, isn't it possible that the reason he withdrew was because the whole situation forced him out of his zone; he no longer had confidence that he could be in his zone? Not so long ago, one of Canada's alltime strongest players dropped out of an important tournament because an organizer, who was also an asshole, destroyed our guy's equanimity by provoking an argument about clothing just prior to a round. I don't recall anyone giving our guy a hard time for dropping out. I think everyone understood that our guy had been knocked out of his zone and felt he couldn't continue.
          Last edited by Peter McKillop; Saturday, 17th September, 2022, 02:28 PM.
          "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
          "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
          "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post

            I don't think it's fair to come down so hard on Carlsen. Depending on where you subjectively pick your cutoff point, I think the vast majority of people visiting Chesstalk are not elite-level chess players, or elite-level participants in any sport for that matter. But I think we've all done enough playing, reading, talking/watching/listening/etc., to know that an elite athlete has to be 'in the zone' in order to perform at his/her best. The Sinquefeld Cup people extended an invitation to a self-admitted cheater. That fact alone was probably tough for the other participants to deal with during their pre-tournament mental prep. Then Carlsen loses to Niemann. Rather than assume that the ONLY reason Carlsen withdrew was because he suspected cheating, isn't it possible that the reason he withdrew was because the whole situation forced him out of his zone; he no longer had confidence that he could be in his zone? Not so long ago, one of Canada's alltime strongest players dropped out of an important tournament because an organizer, who was also an asshole, destroyed our guy's equanimity by provoking an argument about clothing just prior to a round. I don't recall anyone giving our guy a hard time for dropping out. I think everyone understood that our guy had been knocked out of his zone and felt he couldn't continue.
            Interesting view.
            However, Carlsen should not have attached the "Can't say or I'm in trouble" video.
            If he was out of his zone, he should have simply withdrawn.
            When he walked out of the mandatory press scrum after playing Karjakin in the WCC, he later said "it was not my proudest moment."
            I would suggest that this time, he may have surpassed it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by George Stajov View Post
              .....
              However, Carlsen should not have attached the "Can't say or I'm in trouble" video.
              If he was out of his zone, he should have simply withdrawn. .....
              I agree with that, George. Certainly Carlsen has to take a big chunk of the blame for the situation. But I don't think he deserves abusive epithets like "suck" and "bum." Another big chunk of the blame belongs to the organizers. Was a self-admitted cheater really the best they could come up with to fill in that last spot in the tournament lineup? In effect, the organizers made the other participants complicit in the organizers' attempt to rehabilitate Niemann's reputation. Was that fair? Was there buy-in from the other participants? Lots of interesting angles!
              "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
              "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
              "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post

                I agree with that, George. Certainly Carlsen has to take a big chunk of the blame for the situation. But I don't think he deserves abusive epithets like "suck" and "bum." Another big chunk of the blame belongs to the organizers. Was a self-admitted cheater really the best they could come up with to fill in that last spot in the tournament lineup? In effect, the organizers made the other participants complicit in the organizers' attempt to rehabilitate Niemann's reputation. Was that fair? Was there buy-in from the other participants? Lots of interesting angles!
                Let's face it, Magnus's allegations are based on a really shaky premise. :-) I mean, really, so what, his opponent has an anal retentive personality. :-)
                Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Sunday, 18th September, 2022, 12:50 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
                  But I don't think he deserves abusive epithets like "suck" and "bum."
                  Admittedly these words are slang. Perhaps a better choice would have been- childish, cowardly, irresponsible, asinine, foolish, disgusting, liar...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brad Thomson View Post

                    Admittedly these words are slang. Perhaps a better choice would have been- childish, cowardly, irresponsible, asinine, foolish, disgusting, liar...
                    Well said, Brad!!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Brad Thomson View Post

                      Admittedly these words are slang. Perhaps a better choice would have been- childish, cowardly, irresponsible, asinine, foolish, disgusting, liar...
                      Maybe some or all of that is deserved. I'll wait until the whole story is out.
                      "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                      "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                      "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Both are current playing in the Julius Baer Generation Cup. This makes me think that Carlsen's Sinquefield withdrawal was reactionary after his loss to Hans.
                        I have nothing important to say.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
                          Maybe some or all of that is deserved. I'll wait until the whole story is out.
                          Let us suppose for the sake of discussion that Niemann was in fact cheating. This would not lessen Carlsen's errors. All of the non-slang words I used to describe him would still apply, with the exception of the word liar. (And this word should probably have not been used by myself in the first place, because Magnus may suspect cheating and it therefore not lying when he announces implicitly his suspicions.) Magnus should simply have completed the tournament and not said anything in public. Of course, a private formal complaint would have been acceptable. Or, Magnus should have provided a legitimate reason for his withdrawal. But the dude is not stupid, he had to know that Niemann would be thrown under the bus by a lot of people who like to jump to unfounded conclusions- to be sure this was Magnus' intent. And for this he is a coward, he is childish, he is irresponsible, he is asinine, he is foolish and he is disgusting. A full and unequivocal apology is required. He is not a good ambassador for the game of chess.

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                          • #14
                            https://en.chessbase.com/post/is-han...regan-analyzes Ken Regan declares Hans Niemann is not cheating.

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