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What you say is definitely true. I guess the problem with defaulting the prize if the winner doesn't go to the World Junior, is that when it is in China for example, when many Canadian Juniors would be unwilling to bear the expense, even with the prize, then we likely would have a very weak Junior that year. Those not willing to incur the expense, would not bother playing in the Canadian Junior, because they know they'd just default the prize.
But the compensation would be if no one went that year, that the next year the prize fund would be double, and would likely lead to a very strong Can. Junior that next year, especially if it happened to be in Philadephia.
Is this enough of an argument to change the $$ prize from going to the winner, to being defaulted if s/he refuses to go that year?
I understand that Raja gets the $$ prize, and if he doesn't go to the World Junior, he can use the prize toward any other tournament of his choice. The second place finisher has been offered the official position, but with no subsidy, except accomodation expenses which are paid by the organizers.
I am trying to get a sense of people's opinions on this - see my posts above.
Do you think the Canadian Junior winner should be able to keep the prize, even if not going to the World Junior, so long as it is applied to some other tournament of his/her choice?
Bob
I think not sending a junior to the World Junior Championship reflects badly on Canada.
If the prize is for travel to the World Junior that's how it should be used. If the player who qualifies can't attend the following placings should be given the opportunity.
I also think the entire fare should be paid.
Canada must be starting to be a joke on the International scene.
I understand that Raja gets the $$ prize, and if he doesn't go to the World Junior, he can use the prize toward any other tournament of his choice. The second place finisher has been offered the official position, but with no subsidy, except accomodation expenses which are paid by the organizers.
I am trying to get a sense of people's opinions on this - see my posts above.
Bob
When did the CFC make this policy? It's ridiculous. This is a national event with the purpose of choosing a Canadian Champion and world junior participant (although anyone can go). It's like CYCC winners choosing to use it on any event they choose, or the Canadian Closed champ not going to the world cup and instead using it for whatever he wants. I believe this is at least the 2nd time in recent memory the CFC screwed up. IM Tayar finished second a couple years ago but was not contacted by the CFC to inform him that the first place couldn't go. He did tell me he would of participated. We need to keep it simple, like local-provincial-national-worlds.
If the prize is fixed (say $1000 toward the WJ) then that is much more significant a chunk of change for Phila than China... Likewise, the CFC likely would not be wise to offer 'to pay for the airfare' for the same reasons: there would be no predictability for budgeting purposes.
It isn't as easy sometimes as one would like...
For more than a quarter-century, the CFC simply paid the airfare (food and accommodation on site are covered for one player by the organizers) to the World Junior, no matter where it was. There was no "budgeting purposes". If the CFC had a budget (mostly it didn't), it never had a budget for more than one year, and you know that far in advance where the World Junior (and Olympiads for that matter) are going to be. Budget is not an issue.
Travelling further is not a benefit to the contestant. Last I looked, Argentina was more expensive than China to travel to, from Canada. At any rate, they are comparable.
The CFC has stepped back from its responsibilities, amongst others become unfocused about being represented at the World Junior. It's symptomatic--and Karmic.
There were 12 players at the Canadian Junior in Victoria. Entry fee was $150 each 12X150=$1800 A cheque for $1000 was sent to the CFC to contribute toward the winner for travel to the World Junior. Does anyone know.... How the $1000 will be spent if no one goes. If anyone else was offered the chance?
On the CFC forum, Michael Barron indicated that he did contact other players from the Canadian Junior--but since he seemed intent on making a humourous response, there's no detail. My understanding is that the $1,000 went to Raja, and that if say the runner-up had decided to go to Argentina, travel would have been at his own expense.
Just to make this clear: did the $1,800 remain with the organizers of the Canadian Junior or with the CFC? If the latter, did the CFC provide a, ah, direct subsidy to the Canadian Junior?
In ye olden days, the Canadian Junior organizers got to keep the entry fees, they also received a small subsidy ... but on the other side of the ledger, they had to provide accommodation to the 10-12 players for 5-11 days.
The policy makes sense when the FIDE events are so inconsistant in quality ( including downright dreadful in Belfort ) and their penchant for picking undesirable locations some years.
The real problem is the overall quality of any youth program run by the CFC. It's a money pit for parents and neither the CFC nor the rank and file adult membership has ever cared much about this. In fact, several years we attended the CYCC it subsidized the Canadian Open or the FQE. The Canadian Junior you could see in the mid 2000s was getting unpopular. When I see the young kids going to the Pan Am and doing well, I wonder is this a blessing or not; if their families are not wealthy it's a rough path to go down with very little support from the CFC ( and in some years a costly hinderence ).
Last edited by Duncan Smith; Wednesday, 21st October, 2009, 03:05 PM.
What's that political ideology got to do with a registered charity doing the good work one would expect from YOUR tax dollar?
Gee, I was only channeling the Ruben mantra. You have suddenly discovered that the CFC not only doesn't care about the adult elite players but they match that with their treatment of elite juniors? Really, where have you guys been hiding for the last decade? Sheesh.
Gary Ruben, at least 20 times on here:
"The elite players can take care of themselves." Must I find the exact quotes?
Seems that as Jonathan wrote, the CFC has gone another direction. The elite players are screwed but at least the elite juniors know exactly where they stand as early as possible.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
I see the same thing but with the opposite interpretation of what Jason Lohner wrote. It's Karma. For a quarter century or so, the CFC had a proper (closed, round robin, subsidized) Canadian Junior and sent the winner to the World Junior. During that time, the CFC prospered. Then they got the screwball idea that all events, even elite events, should be self-supporting. They abandoned their purpose and the CFC slid into a sea of despond.
I remember Susan Nattrass deliver the keynote speech at a Sports Federation of Canada annual extravaganza. "We sports federations are like blah blah. We blah blah, blah blah, and we eat our young." Yup!
Could it be that the CFC can no longer afford to support these kind of events? I would agree with you that the CFC should have a proper event and send the winner to the World Junior. The CFC can't afford to because of static membership rates that are barely enough to support a skeleton organization. I would love to see the CFC grow, but the only area that it can grow is by getting average players to join the CFC and play in CFC events. Being a barely adequate player myself :) I know that many of the people I play against have decided to abandon the CFC... Most are happy to play at clubs, online, unrated non CFC events, or just in casual settings. The CFC is now irrelevant to these players. With the increase in the 'tournament membership' this was the final nail in the coffin. Without this backbone of the vast majority of chess players the CFC will never grow to support the elite players. The CFC needs to reach out to these players and until this happens our elite players will not have the support that they need to grow.
Could it be that the CFC can no longer afford to support these kind of events?
Then perhaps they should have considered that BEFORE deciding that they could do a better job than CMA, which already ran a superior version of the event.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
CAN may not be represented, but CAN is playing. Emre Can of Turkey. He doesn't represent CAN, he is CAN. Can (pronounced Jan) means soul or individual in Turkish.
Gee, I was only channeling the Ruben mantra. You have suddenly discovered that the CFC not only doesn't care about the adult elite players but they match that with their treatment of elite juniors? Really, where have you guys been hiding for the last decade? Sheesh.
Gary Ruben, at least 20 times on here:
"The elite players can take care of themselves." Must I find the exact quotes?
Seems that as Jonathan wrote, the CFC has gone another direction. The elite players are screwed but at least the elite juniors know exactly where they stand as early as possible.
At least! :)
However, I never wrote the top juniors (or any junior) should not be encouraged or a representative not be sent to the World Junior. I'm not against a National Team at the Olympics either.
Do you really oppose sending a junior to the World Junior Championship or are you needling me? My guess is it's the latter.
This was a great opportunity for a young player to get some experience and maybe a norm. I don't buy the argument the CFC can't afford to send someone. It's not that long ago spending 10 to 20 thousand for a web site was being discussed. In my opinion, better to participate in a FIDE junior World Championship.
I don't think the executives or governors of the CFC know how to run a national chess federation. The priorities seem screwed up, as well.
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