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Ken, start doing a little Googling on some of the issues, like ocean acidification, Arctic ice melt, etc. and you can find newspaper articles that are written for public reading on the issue.
"Believer" vs "non-believer" is a totally inaccurate way to frame the issue. It implies a faith as opposed to a scientific view. Perhaps the term "accepter" or "supporter" may be better? Probably "accepter" since "supporter" means to favour something. "Accepter" is more the opposite of "denier". Not sure what is best, maybe Vland can comment on "denier" and find a better word; since "denier" tends to have negative connotations.
The problem is the "massive profits" that the oil companies think they will lose in switching to other energy sources, and their influence with governments.
I think that the "real" truth will be clear to almost everyone very soon, likely within a few years. My estimate is that the Arctic sea-ice will be gone soon and warming will accelerate, that will wake people out of their lethargy.
Vlad, as you know there is work all around the world on climate studies, it is very multidisciplinary. Throw out all the work by the CRU and it makes no difference on the science elsewhere, and the results. It sounds like you are anti-science. Or maybe you want Canada and Russia to warm as you see short-term benefits?
The problem is the "massive profits" that the oil companies think they will lose in switching to other energy sources, and their influence with governments.
I think that the "real" truth will be clear to almost everyone very soon, likely within a few years. My estimate is that the Arctic sea-ice will be gone soon and warming will accelerate, that will wake people out of their lethargy.
Paul, what is a critical averaged temperature (and a raised water level) which might be devastating for whole Canada if there is no attention to other countries? (sorry if it sounds too rude)
Same question when Canadians care about other countries.
Some of my ocean sources are "Sea Sick: The global ocean in crisis" by Alanna Mitchell (science writer who toured the world over 2.5 years, I met her last week at a talk in Ottawa at Museum of Nature)
and:
"The World is Blue: How our fate and the ocean's are one" by Sylvia A. Earle known as "Her Deepness", Google her and see how world renowned she is as an oceanographer.
What is wrong with the acidity numbers that I posted; I welcome correct numbers from you instead of just innuendos?
I would be extremely happy if you could convince me that this is all a "crock" but you never provide any science indicating this...
If you follow the line up to Vlad, it was a response to him joking that it was cold in Edmonton...
And of course, if climate warming is true you would expect more very cold winters as well as more warm summers.
Weather being an oscillating system, injecting energy from climate warming causes it to oscillate wider in both directions, just as when you push a pendulum faster to the right. it will indeed swing further to the right, but also further to the left.
But people who don't understand basic scientific concepts just don't get it.
Last edited by Ed Seedhouse; Thursday, 3rd December, 2009, 07:35 PM.
The problem is the "massive profits" that the oil companies think they will lose in switching to other energy sources, and their influence with governments.
I think that the "real" truth will be clear to almost everyone very soon, likely within a few years. My estimate is that the Arctic sea-ice will be gone soon and warming will accelerate, that will wake people out of their lethargy.
Let's assume the "real" truth becomes clear. Yes, people will demand that Exxon Mobil and the other polluting brethren stop polluting. They will demand that the governments of the world do something. But if the governments and businesses have to lay off people, increase taxes and prices, and most importantly inconvenience the average person while decreasing their living standard, then I suspect not much will get done except a lot of hand wringing and arm flapping. A lot of talk from the Greens seems to me to be totally misleading. I don't see how the world can live a lifestyle with the level of consumption we have presently - at least not with 6.5+ billion people on it. Wind power, solar power, hydroelectric power and nuclear power can only do so much (not to mention that each has its own problems).
It's why I chuckle when guys like Alex Jones (US radio/internet talk show host) warn about the Green "eugenics program". We live on a finite sphere with finite resources and apparently no way to substitute oil with clean energy sources. No need for anyone to engage in eugenics. If you are right, Mother Nature will do that for us soon enough. ;-)
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Vlad, as you know there is work all around the world on climate studies, it is very multidisciplinary. Throw out all the work by the CRU and it makes no difference on the science elsewhere, and the results.
This is much bigger than CRU. This is a signed confession from the gunman on the grassy knoll with video commentary. This is not a smoking gun it is a radioactive nuclear blast crater.
You clearly have not seen the emails. Already your friend Mann of the hockey stick fame is being investigated by the powers at Penn State University with regard to what is revealed in his emails. I expect a whitewash but I might be surprised.
I clicked on three of the emails at random and each revealed highly embarassing content for the global warming claimants and their so called scientific credentials unless you claim that forging data, destroying evidence to prevent scrutiny and thwarting Freedom of Information requests for data (which were necessary because of the stonewalling in producing underlying data required for proper peer review) and trying to blackball dissenting opinion holders are part of the normal modus operandi of science. I think that the researchers involved should have their lawyers go over the RICO laws and their application in this case especially the part about RICO civil suits and treble damages.
"As we all know, this isn’t about truth at all, its about plausibly deniable accusations." - Michael Mann
This should fully derail Copenhagen which was already mired in a deep bog.
It sounds like you are anti-science. Or maybe you want Canada and Russia to warm as you see short-term benefits?
I am anti-science if you are claiming that what these fraudsters are trying to pass off as global warming science is science.
Canada would probably benefit from some warming. The comment about Russia is puzzling unless you think all Vladimirs come from Russia.
In WWII car plants switched within 1 year to making tanks and planes. Where there is a will there is a way...
Wow, in response to this, I have to once again bring up that the U.S. government is giving car manufacturers something like 10 years to add another 5 mpg to the overall average mpg. Why so long to achieve so little? Because is this day and age, it's the best we can do.
I think what Tom is saying, and I agree from my own observations, is that the majority of modern society worldwide are hedonists and there isnt' a will and there won't be a will.... in time.
I don't know, but I'd guess that those WWII plants didn't change over until after the U.S. was officially at war? If so, one could point out they could have changed over long BEFORE the official involvement in anticipation of what was inevitable. That would have been prudent and wise.
And now we fast forward 70 years and you expect prudence and wisdom from a society that is much much more distracted and pleasure-seeking?
Just curious, Paul: do you follow Ray Kurzweil at all? He believes that science and technology will lead humanity into a golden age, that we will overcome all the challenges that face us, and even that we can become immortal through nanotechnology and other miracles. There is no sign of any of this coming even close to happening. All our hallowed technical schools, MIT, CalTech and all the rest, aren't making even a dent. Their graduates are too busy either making smart bombs or ByePods.
Paul, you're concern and desire to have us save ourselves is nice, I remember feeling the same way in Grade 6 when I first read a magazine article about pollution. I practically ran home and told my mother that the world was going to hell. But gradually... very gradually... I've come to realize that it's entirely conceivable that that is what is supposed to happen. Sorry, Ray Kurzeil, none of us are meant to live forever in this physical realm, and that goes not just for individuals, but for us as a species on a fragile and temporary planet.
P.S. just after Hurricane Katrina happened, I wrote lyrics to a rap song (not that I normally do that or even listen to rap, but I purposely wanted it to be a rap song because of what I think of rap "artists" in general). These lyrics very nicely, if I do say so myself, summarize what I think of today's American youth and just how hopeless America's future is. I called the song "The Great American Dumb Down". If anyone's interested, I'll private message these lyrics -- I was tempted to post them here, but I dont' think anyone's actually interested, LOL!
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
I think that the "real" truth will be clear to almost everyone very soon, likely within a few years. My estimate is that the Arctic sea-ice will be gone soon and warming will accelerate, that will wake people out of their lethargy.
About 2 weeks ago, I saw a documentary on one of the American network news shows (NBC Nightly News or some show like that). They had a camera crew visiting a camp in Greenland that is drilling into the ice sheet, bringing up ice cores from something like... I think it said 110,000 years into the past.
What they've discovered is that some many thousands of years ago, there was a very dramatic global warming that took only 2 years to spike global temps 20 degrees (not sure if that was Celsius or Fahrenheit).
The evidence is now in that something very sudden and dramatic can hit us and wipe most of us out before we even realize what is happening. And it doesn't even take a meteor, or at least they didn't mention any natural disaster causing this temp spike.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
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