The One and Only Climate Change thread...

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  • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

    Gary,

    You actually pay more than 6 - 6.5 cents per kWh; that price is just the supply part of your bill. Take your total bill and divide by kWh used for the month, and you are more like 12 cents per kWh.

    The electricity that you would generate from solar photovoltaic is all sold to the grid for 80.2 cents per kWh. A 2 kW system installed on your roof would cost about $20,000 all included, and would get a return from electricity sold of about $200 per month on average ($2400 per year at 45 degrees latituted) with a payback period of about 8.5 years (ROI return on investment of 12% or so). The 80.2 cents per kWh is fixed in a 20 year contract that is signed with the government (Ontario), the panels are warrantied for 25 years.

    This FIT program (Feed-in-tariff) for Ontario is the best on the planet at the moment...

    Comment


    • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

      Hello Paul,

      Of course lots of things are possible if you throw enough money at them but will they work and are they the best "bang for the buck"?

      Ocean phytoplankton need both light and nutrients to thrive and they get their nutrients from deep cold ocean water rising to the surface; this happens mostly at coastlines and less so in the open ocean. Your rainforests would absorb much more carbon dioxide than the phytoplankton as long as they were not located at one of the upwelling prolific coastal regions.

      How much soil do you propose is to be put on your ocean rafts. How do you keep this raft together to hold up to hurricanes, storms, and rogue waves; and how do you keep the salt water from washing away the soil and contaminating it with salt. Maybe you should have the rainforest on an island instead; or even a continent like South America?

      Comment


      • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

        Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
        Gary,

        You actually pay more than 6 - 6.5 cents per kWh; that price is just the supply part of your bill. Take your total bill and divide by kWh used for the month, and you are more like 12 cents per kWh.

        The electricity that you would generate from solar photovoltaic is all sold to the grid for 80.2 cents per kWh. A 2 kW system installed on your roof would cost about $20,000 all included, and would get a return from electricity sold of about $200 per month on average ($2400 per year at 45 degrees latituted) with a payback period of about 8.5 years (ROI return on investment of 12% or so). The 80.2 cents per kWh is fixed in a 20 year contract that is signed with the government (Ontario), the panels are warrantied for 25 years.

        This FIT program (Feed-in-tariff) for Ontario is the best on the planet at the moment...
        Yes. There is a delivery charge and debt retirement. So even if I double the electricity charge to cover everything it comes to around 13 cents a KWH.

        At 80 cents a KWH they are paying to produce from solar panels, I'd say I'm subsidizing it and hope the next government will have different ideas.

        The problems I see with solar panels on the roof is this. The amount of pollution which might be caused by mining the silicon. Mining does not tend to be a clean process. A big windstorm which could damage the panels like it tears shingles off the roofs every few years. The resale value of the home. I wouldn't want to live under high voltage power line towers because of the health risk which has been mentioned over the years but probably not proved. I wouldn't want to live under solar panels either.

        When I get a long term warranty on anything, I always pull out my manifying glass and read the fine print before I read the other parts. I've found over the years a warranty should be read with the fine print firmly in mind. :)

        Another rule of thumb with warranties is if it's long enough that when I get to the last part of the agreement, I've forgotten what the first part said, it's not for me. The same goes for the agreements to purchase things.
        Gary Ruben
        CC - IA and SIM

        Comment


        • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

          GROM Gary,

          You ask a question; complain if it is now answered; and then attack/complain about any answer you get back...

          What is the point of anyone engaging in a dialogue with you; you are just a GROM (Grumpy Old Man) who just wants to talk about $ and cents and nothing else. Find something better to do; maybe you could take up bridge? Why do you care so much about money at your age anyway?

          Do some research; you are comparing High Voltage lines (100s of kV) with solar panels (1.5 W per cell, 200 W per panel, with extremely low voltages). Laughable...Not only that, panels are DC, not AC like the power lines. Health risks with high voltage AC have been mentioned over the years, not with low power DC. No, I am not talking about the rock group ACDC from years past...

          Have solar power installers never thought about wind. They rate the panel installations to survive very large windspeeds, just check out any of their websites for the ratings. In fact some of the newer types of photovoltaic technology are not panels at all but cylinders that mount flat on the roof and have absolutely no wind shear issues.

          Studies also exist on the manufacture of the panels. Mining the silicon??? How about just going to the beach and scooping up buckets of sand, do you know what sand is made of? Why are you using a computer; what do you think computer chips are made of. You just make no sense at all. Don't you know you are getting radiation from your monitor and computer and microwave?

          Your statements are just ridiculous...

          Comment


          • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

            Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
            GROM Gary,

            You ask a question; complain if it is now answered; and then attack/complain about any answer you get back...

            What is the point of anyone engaging in a dialogue with you; you are just a GROM (Grumpy Old Man) who just wants to talk about $ and cents and nothing else. Find something better to do; maybe you could take up bridge? Why do you care so much about money at your age anyway?

            Do some research; you are comparing High Voltage lines (100s of kV) with solar panels (1.5 W per cell, 200 W per panel, with extremely low voltages). Laughable...Not only that, panels are DC, not AC like the power lines. Health risks with high voltage AC have been mentioned over the years, not with low power DC. No, I am not talking about the rock group ACDC from years past...

            Have solar power installers never thought about wind. They rate the panel installations to survive very large windspeeds, just check out any of their websites for the ratings. In fact some of the newer types of photovoltaic technology are not panels at all but cylinders that mount flat on the roof and have absolutely no wind shear issues.

            Studies also exist on the manufacture of the panels. Mining the silicon??? How about just going to the beach and scooping up buckets of sand, do you know what sand is made of? Why are you using a computer; what do you think computer chips are made of. You just make no sense at all. Don't you know you are getting radiation from your monitor and computer and microwave?

            Your statements are just ridiculous...
            Damn right I'm a grumpy old man! I've earned the right and I don't put up with a lot of B.S. from young whipper snappers. Why would I take up bridge, you fool? I'm still good enough to play a top board on the national correspondence chess team. Now we've got that out of the way, stop trying the left wing stunt of trying to shout me out to shut me up.

            Now if you want to look at the tube Televisions, they were plugged into an AC outlet but the circuits were DC votage. The thing is the flyback transformer builds up more than 20,000 volts from that measly 110 volts AC outlet to which it's plugged in. I wouldn't advise putting your hand on that flyback transformer.

            It's not cheap to turn sand into decent solar grade silicon.

            Just to show my good faith, I'll leave you with a couple of articles you might enjoy.

            NASA Stuff

            Earth Hour in Toronto.

            Click Here!
            Gary Ruben
            CC - IA and SIM

            Comment


            • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

              Climate-row professor Phil Jones should return to work, say MPs

              Comment


              • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                Bridge is a great game Gary; much more sociable than chess. Who knows, perhaps you could even meet some LOL's to divert you from your inane posts!

                For the younger crowd, LOL = Little Old Ladies

                At your age these LOLs must outnumber GROMs by at least a 3 or 4:1 ratio?

                LOLs are know to turn GROMs into PLOMs (Pleasant Old Men). What do you say?

                Comment


                • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                  Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
                  Bridge is a great game Gary; much more sociable than chess. Who knows, perhaps you could even meet some LOL's to divert you from your inane posts!

                  For the younger crowd, LOL = Little Old Ladies

                  At your age these LOLs must outnumber GROMs by at least a 3 or 4:1 ratio?

                  LOLs are know to turn GROMs into PLOMs (Pleasant Old Men). What do you say?
                  Hard to know. Personally, I think you're a "nervous nellie" with a superiority complex and a disconnect with the rest of the world. Kind of a "Chicken Little" walking around telling folks the world is about to end. Never giving an exact date but alluding to some time in the future.

                  There's a name for that and it's not a "scientist".
                  Gary Ruben
                  CC - IA and SIM

                  Comment


                  • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                    It is hard for anyone not to get a superiority complex when conversing with you. Did you do any research on solar panels yet? I think that you should start paying me to educate you. You amuse me so I do it for free.

                    Comment


                    • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                      Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
                      It is hard for anyone not to get a superiority complex when conversing with you. Did you do any research on solar panels yet? I think that you should start paying me to educate you. You amuse me so I do it for free.
                      I think it's time Larry closed this thread. Now the reputable opinion polls have started showing the majority of people are not being taken in with climate change you are using personal abuse to try to force your opinion.

                      Rather than using what you call "educate", you have resorted to the tactics of the intellectually bankrupt. If you paid for your education you should ask for a refund.
                      Gary Ruben
                      CC - IA and SIM

                      Comment


                      • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                        Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                        Now the reputable opinion polls have started showing the majority of people are not being taken in with climate change....
                        Gary, opinion polls are just that, opinion polls. They are not scientific evidence. Now that the British parliamentary inquiry has cleared Dr. Jones of any wrongdoing and shown the climategate scandal to be baseless, newer opinion polls will begin to show support for climate change again. :)

                        I hear this weekend is expected to be very warm. Let's take another opinion poll!:)

                        Comment


                        • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                          Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
                          Gary, opinion polls are just that, opinion polls. They are not scientific evidence. Now that the British parliamentary inquiry has cleared Dr. Jones of any wrongdoing and shown the climategate scandal to be baseless, newer opinion polls will begin to show support for climate change again. :)

                          I hear this weekend is expected to be very warm. Let's take another opinion poll!:)
                          People who don't vote for politicians who spend money on problems they don't think exist.

                          A movement is defined as much by the perceived character of those who advocate it as by the presented data people are asked to trust. If you want to be a Jones groupie, good for you. :)
                          Gary Ruben
                          CC - IA and SIM

                          Comment


                          • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                            Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                            I think it's time Larry closed this thread.
                            The bullies always look to help from above when they are being faced down and defeated.

                            Comment


                            • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                              Originally posted by Ed Seedhouse View Post
                              The bullies always look to help from above when they are being faced down and defeated.
                              Yes. In this case you are there to help the one who should not need help.
                              Gary Ruben
                              CC - IA and SIM

                              Comment


                              • Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

                                Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                                Yes. In this case you are there to help the one who should not need help.
                                Bullies like Gary do get upset when someone defends their victims, it is true.

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