The One and Only Climate Change thread...

[Adam Cormier]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

I don't know all the details, but Sylvia Browne's ex-husband is a convicted felon, and implicated her. Even if the court decided that she was involved, it could be that her ex was very meticulous and devious in getting her involved.

Whenever someone is making a living by claiming to be a psychic, there are going to be attackers who will bring up any and all wrong predictions to try and prove otherwise. What Sylvia says about this is that when she gets asked a question, the answer (if one comes at all) comes to her as something she has to interpret, and it is her interpretation that can be wrong. For each anti-Sylvia naysayer, there are literally thousands of people who she has helped, how else could she have such success and make a living? I've been to one of her events, and talked with attendees, and heard firsthand how Sylvia's visions and predictions have helped them. Are they all daft? Well, if you want to think so, that is fine, I think otherwise.

Adam, I also provided a web link when I mentioned Sylvia's book. You are free to think what you will about her vision of the afterlife, but have you visited that link and read any of the hundreds and hundreds of accounts (of near death experience) there? If so, you will know that the most common statement from the person giving the account is that they know what vivid dreams are like, and the experience was more profound by orders of magnitude than their most vivid dream. Well, yes, we could explain this away as some kind of dying brain chemical reaction. Perhaps we will all have this as we die, and ultimately it will end and we will become nothing. Or perhaps we just don't WANT to believe that something better than this life could possibly await us all.

That is what I meant when I wrote that a degree of faith is still required. I'm getting the distinct impression that you just aren't willing to have any degree of faith. You don't want to believe scientists who say that string theory points to there being 11 dimensions to reality. In either case, no one is dragging you to water and forcing you to drink. The water is there if you decide you are thirsty.

I know you are fairly young, and like all searchers, I'm confident that you will undergo profound changes as you age.

Let me leave you with this, and you can search it out for yourself: one of the tenets of Sylvia's teachings (and many major religions as well) is reincarnation. To give any credence to Sylvia at all, you must believe in reincarnation. There are documented cases of people being put into trance, taken into a past life, and mentioning names and events from those past lives -- names and events that were so trivial, the person under hypnosis could not possibly have had knowledge of them. These names and events have been subsequently verified by independant researchers. With your focus on scientific facts and evidence, this should serve to at least get you believing in reincarnation. Or maybe it won't. It's hard to know just how much hard evidence you must have before you accept something.

I guess her physic powers didn't tip her off to what her husband was going to be like right? :)

Cold Reading, this is the logical answer to her 'gift'...

Like I already said, Skeptical Inquirer, has found loads of contradictory evidence to the extent, power and usefulness of her supposed physic abilities. No the people who believe in her aren't daft but they aren't looking at it logically, they are probably extremely emotional about it and can't think clearly. When you revisit a painful memory emotions start to take over(one of the many reasons I view most emotions as weaknesses).

The problem with that link is it assumes that the brief consciousness when you are dead but before your body can't be revived is the soul's experience, whereas I believe it to be the brain.

During my religion course this semester there was a girl who had died while in a hospital and was later brought back to life, her experience was just darkness, surrounding her. I believe this reinforces my point about how your brain reacts when you die but is still functioning. She was agnostic so she had little to no belief in the divine so her brain saw darkness. Someone who believes in God/afterlife generally sees a bright light. I'm under the impression that Near death experiences are completely dependent on the person's opinions and life and it seems to be the logical explanation to me(especially since there is no evidence for a 'soul').

You are right about profound changes, I use to be one of the most super-religious, right-wing, bible-thumping, anti-gay rights, anti-Muslim people on the planet. So far I'm happy with the changes in my life. :)

My guess why the dreams would be more profound is because you're dying. Seems like a simple explanation to me, your brain cells are on fire, they are going to die very shortly unless you are brought back to life to get the blood flowing again, I can see that creating extremely vibrant dreams.

I actually want to study String Theory(Physics and Biology are the two sciences I'm interested in, as well as some math courses), but there is a big difference between educated faith, and blind faith, I am completely against blind faith, but I'm more open to educated faith.

I would like some sources to your last point about reincarnation, because I'm having serious doubts about how much of that last paragraph can be substantiated.

Most religions use fear tactics and the main tenant of most of them is pretending to know some deep questions of the universe, example: what happens after death?
Mark Twain's quote I believe is a good way to think of the afterlife,
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

Some of us don't want anything after this life, one of my friends has an interesting view on the idea of eternal life, in that it would eventually become quite boring, The finite possibilities will eventually end and then you will be left with absolutely nothing to do, I don't know why eternal life is considered a reward by many religions. I wouldn't mind there being something after death, but I view it as arrogant in that only humans, have such pleasure, none of the other animals on this planet, or other lifeforms any where else in this vast universe we live in. I hope one day we are capable of traveling to planets far away(The Christian Dark Ages sent us back a few hundred years) and meet other species(hopefully intelligent), but that is far in the future if even possible.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

You folks can dismiss Fox News all you want. Voters in the U.S. take it seriously. I suspect they will contribute to the Democrats losing one of both of the House and Senate in the mid term elections. Obama, unless he can improve his performance, will likely lose next election.

Hannity did a feature tonight called "The Green Swindle" which was an excellent indictment of the whole CO2 scam. He had Obama on there talking about how he was going to increase energy prices.

Excellent coverage.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

I don't know all the details, but Sylvia Browne's ex-husband is a convicted felon, and implicated her. Even if the court decided that she was involved, it could be that her ex was very meticulous and devious in getting her involved.

Whenever someone is making a living by claiming to be a psychic, there are going to be attackers who will bring up any and all wrong predictions to try and prove otherwise. What Sylvia says about this is that when she gets asked a question, the answer (if one comes at all) comes to her as something she has to interpret, and it is her interpretation that can be wrong.

I don't buy the reincarnation idea and relying on psychics who are wrong as often as they are right just doesn't fit. Some Christian groups claim that many psychics are possessed by discerning spirits similar to the one talked about in Acts where the disciples cast out a demon that had made a home in a slave that had made their master very rich. With the demon cast out there was no more predictions to profit from. This annoyed the slave owner and led to some adventures for the apostles/disciples involved.

There are supernatural forces at work in the world both for good and for ill. You have to be careful about the doors that you allow to open in your life as the consequences can be dangerous to you and those around you. There is a gift of prophecy that some people show but it is not wrong if it is real.

There are others who are just charlatans. I believe Richard Bandler wrote a bit about how he could and did use NLP (neurolinguistic programming) techniques to convince people that he was psychic when he was not and made no claim to be.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

I guess her physic powers didn't tip her off to what her husband was going to be like right? :)

Cold Reading, this is the logical answer to her 'gift'...

Like I already said, Skeptical Inquirer, has found loads of contradictory evidence to the extent, power and usefulness of her supposed physic abilities. No the people who believe in her aren't daft but they aren't looking at it logically, they are probably extremely emotional about it and can't think clearly. When you revisit a painful memory emotions start to take over(one of the many reasons I view most emotions as weaknesses).

The problem with that link is it assumes that the brief consciousness when you are dead but before your body can't be revived is the soul's experience, whereas I believe it to be the brain.

During my religion course this semester there was a girl who had died while in a hospital and was later brought back to life, her experience was just darkness, surrounding her. I believe this reinforces my point about how your brain reacts when you die but is still functioning. She was agnostic so she had little to no belief in the divine so her brain saw darkness. Someone who believes in God/afterlife generally sees a bright light. I'm under the impression that Near death experiences are completely dependent on the person's opinions and life and it seems to be the logical explanation to me(especially since there is no evidence for a 'soul').

You are right about profound changes, I use to be one of the most super-religious, right-wing, bible-thumping, anti-gay rights, anti-Muslim people on the planet. So far I'm happy with the changes in my life. :)

My guess why the dreams would be more profound is because you're dying. Seems like a simple explanation to me, your brain cells are on fire, they are going to die very shortly unless you are brought back to life to get the blood flowing again, I can see that creating extremely vibrant dreams.

I actually want to study String Theory(Physics and Biology are the two sciences I'm interested in, as well as some math courses), but there is a big difference between educated faith, and blind faith, I am completely against blind faith, but I'm more open to educated faith.

I would like some sources to your last point about reincarnation, because I'm having serious doubts about how much of that last paragraph can be substantiated.

Most religions use fear tactics and the main tenant of most of them is pretending to know some deep questions of the universe, example: what happens after death?

I think you meant to say tenet. The main tenant is usually a fat guy that likes his private jets and spending sprees. Hmmmm... that could be Al Gore too.

Near death experiences are one of the proofs suggested in the religious courses that I took that there is an Ultimate Reality beyond this world. Most of the biblical scriptures indicate that when we die that we go to sleep for a period of time until the resurrection so maybe your agnostic friend just didn't have any REM sleep during her experience while others do. :)

The other convincing proof is that of the numinous experience or the direct experience of or encounter with the divine.

Mark Twain's quote I believe is a good way to think of the afterlife,
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

Some of us don't want anything after this life, one of my friends has an interesting view on the idea of eternal life, in that it would eventually become quite boring, The finite possibilities will eventually end and then you will be left with absolutely nothing to do, I don't know why eternal life is considered a reward by many religions. I wouldn't mind there being something after death, but I view it as arrogant in that only humans, have such pleasure, none of the other animals on this planet, or other lifeforms any where else in this vast universe we live in. I hope one day we are capable of traveling to planets far away(The Christian Dark Ages sent us back a few hundred years) and meet other species(hopefully intelligent), but that is far in the future if even possible.

Don't be too eager for those ET's to arrive. Hawking may be right about them, you know.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Hannity did a feature tonight called "The Green Swindle" which was an excellent indictment of the whole CO2 scam. He had Obama on there talking about how he was going to increase energy prices.

Excellent coverage.

I didn't see that but the Liberals here in Ontario already have increased energy prices. They tacked the HST onto gasoline, heating and electricity bills, etc. BC has some kind of tax revolt going but here in Ontario where there is a provincial election next year there is no point. I figure we're in for a change because people simply can't afford the constant tax increases by the liberals.

I can't see the Liberals in Ottawa gaining a minority much less a majority. All I know about Ignatieff is he seems to be a tax and spend liberal who has spent the last couple of years helping to prop up the government. Good thing because someone had to make the hard decisions and next election I'm going to vote for the party that did.

Have you seen Layton on TV recently?

I could be entirely wrong but I expect an election this fall or next spring at the latest. We need stronger legislation in several areas. The leaders appear to be spending the summer campaigning.

[Adam Cormier]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

I think you meant to say tenet. The main tenant is usually a fat guy that likes his private jets and spending sprees. Hmmmm... that could be Al Gore too.

Near death experiences are one of the proofs suggested in the religious courses that I took that there is an Ultimate Reality beyond this world. Most of the biblical scriptures indicate that when we die that we go to sleep for a period of time until the resurrection so maybe your agnostic friend just didn't have any REM sleep during her experience while others do. :)

The other convincing proof is that of the numinous experience or the direct experience of or encounter with the divine.



Don't be too eager for those ET's to arrive. Hawking may be right about them, you know.

Always ready to take a shot at Al Gore, I don't know why you think climatologists like him, they don't and neither do I, he politicized global warming erroneously. I'd prefer to listen to scientists who do research on this issue personally then some fat-cat politician.

If you're reduced to using NDE as proof of something after death(Ultimate Reality as you put it), I'm not convinced.

By resurrection, do you mean the 2nd coming of Christ? He's a bit late because in the New Testament it says he would return during his disciples life time.

I wouldn't call her a friend, more of an acquaintance.

Why don't you call your 2nd 'convincing' argument what it is, 'personal experiences'.

Dawkin's shatters the argument from personal experience in his book, The God Delusion, youtube clip of The God Delusion read by Dr.Dawkins. There are several other counter arguments for the argument from personal experience.

I thought you took a psychology course, this should be one of the least impressive arguments for someone who studied human psychology.


Peter Atkins(physical chemist) view is very similar to my own,
“I’d quite like there to be a God, especially if it were a benevolent one,” he begins. “Not the one of the Old Testament—that would be rather grim. But in order to believe that there is a God, I would need evidence, and I see no evidence. No evidence of any kind whatsoever. Sentiment is not evidence. Faith, revelations, all that sort of thing—these are just quirks of the brain that have been impressed upon it by family or culture. So why should I believe, given the absence of evidence, in the existence of this entity?”

I said we'd fine them in the future not the other way around, Hawking's fright might be justified but if such evil creatures did roam the universe, then we're all doomed to destruction and chaos anyways.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

I guess her physic powers didn't tip her off to what her husband was going to be like right? :)

Sylvia has written many times that she is forbidden to know anything about her own or her immediate family's future. And that is quite logical, because one of the central themes of our existence here on Earth is that we aren't to know our future in any great detail. Psychic gifts are not given in order that we might short-circuit the necessary conditions of our Earthly lives. They are given to provide some comfort. That is why there is no foolproof psychic and never will be. Sylvia's business is to provide a little bit of information and a lot of comfort. And that's all. BTW, do you consider the emotion of love to be a weakness? Love, according to not only Sylvia but virtually all people who have had an NDE, is the force that holds all of creation (or if you like, all of existence) together.

The problem with that link is it assumes that the brief consciousness when you are dead but before your body can't be revived is the soul's experience, whereas I believe it to be the brain.

Ok, well, what about those who are clinically dead, yet during this level of consciousness you speak of are able to float above the scene of their death and accurately recall (later, when revived) each and every action that took place, each and every sentence uttered? Yet their eyes are closed, their brain responds to no sound. There are even instances where they float away from the scene and recall details from another scene perhaps miles away, details that have been confirmed later. What kind of "dreams" are these?

During my religion course this semester there was a girl who had died while in a hospital and was later brought back to life, her experience was just darkness, surrounding her. I believe this reinforces my point about how your brain reacts when you die but is still functioning. She was agnostic so she had little to no belief in the divine so her brain saw darkness. Someone who believes in God/afterlife generally sees a bright light. I'm under the impression that Near death experiences are completely dependent on the person's opinions and life and it seems to be the logical explanation to me(especially since there is no evidence for a 'soul').

It is possible that this person was having suicidal thoughts in the days before her death. One of the things Sylvia teaches is that suicide is the ultimate wrong we can commit here, because we break our contract to survive all trials and tribulations. The result is that we must immediately re-enter the Earth realm, i.e. be physically reinstated on Earth as a newborn, to learn our lessons all over again. Some NDE people who had their NDE after a suicide attempt have reported being in this vast realm of darkness before being allowed to survive their death.

My guess why the dreams would be more profound is because you're dying. Seems like a simple explanation to me, your brain cells are on fire, they are going to die very shortly unless you are brought back to life to get the blood flowing again, I can see that creating extremely vibrant dreams.

Ok, so your faith is with the scientists, the ones who say it's all a matter of chemistry, there is no eternal soul, etc. That's fine, you are free to put your faith where it suits you most.

But aren't you the least intrigued that these vibrant dreams are not chaotic nor muddy as you might expect from brain cells that are having death spasms, but are instead EXTREMELY clear and that many things hidden to us in this realm are revealed during these dreams?

I would like some sources to your last point about reincarnation, because I'm having serious doubts about how much of that last paragraph can be substantiated.

The sources are out there, must I do all your work for you?

Mark Twain's quote I believe is a good way to think of the afterlife,
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

Yes, I've loved this one and have dwelt on that thought long before I ever read the quote. But according to Sylvia, we have all been on the other side for countless eons of Earth time and in coming to Earth, we are necessarily purged of all those memories. You prefer the simpler explanation, which denies the existence of your soul.

I wouldn't mind there being something after death, but I view it as arrogant in that only humans, have such pleasure, none of the other animals on this planet, or other lifeforms any where else in this vast universe we live in. I hope one day we are capable of traveling to planets far away(The Christian Dark Ages sent us back a few hundred years) and meet other species(hopefully intelligent), but that is far in the future if even possible.

Sylvia writes that all types of animals and plants exist on the other side. No insects, apparently. She also writes of other civilizations, practically infinite numbers of them, throughout the universe.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

I didn't see that but the Liberals here in Ontario already have increased energy prices. They tacked the HST onto gasoline, heating and electricity bills, etc. BC has some kind of tax revolt going but here in Ontario where there is a provincial election next year there is no point. I figure we're in for a change because people simply can't afford the constant tax increases by the liberals.

I can't see the Liberals in Ottawa gaining a minority much less a majority. All I know about Ignatieff is he seems to be a tax and spend liberal who has spent the last couple of years helping to prop up the government. Good thing because someone had to make the hard decisions and next election I'm going to vote for the party that did.

Have you seen Layton on TV recently?

I could be entirely wrong but I expect an election this fall or next spring at the latest. We need stronger legislation in several areas. The leaders appear to be spending the summer campaigning.

There seemed to be a huge increase in the electricity this month. The HST was one item. Another was a significant fee for green energy. There was another for transmission, another for debt retirement. I guess the liberals never could say no to a new tax. The electricity bill was half of the other items.

Layton turns my stomach. The only leader who is worse is Elizabeth May.

[Adam Cormier]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Sylvia has written many times that she is forbidden to know anything about her own or her immediate family's future. And that is quite logical, because one of the central themes of our existence here on Earth is that we aren't to know our future in any great detail. Psychic gifts are not given in order that we might short-circuit the necessary conditions of our Earthly lives. They are given to provide some comfort. That is why there is no foolproof psychic and never will be. Sylvia's business is to provide a little bit of information and a lot of comfort. And that's all. BTW, do you consider the emotion of love to be a weakness? Love, according to not only Sylvia but virtually all people who have had an NDE, is the force that holds all of creation (or if you like, all of existence) together.





Ok, well, what about those who are clinically dead, yet during this level of consciousness you speak of are able to float above the scene of their death and accurately recall (later, when revived) each and every action that took place, each and every sentence uttered? Yet their eyes are closed, their brain responds to no sound. There are even instances where they float away from the scene and recall details from another scene perhaps miles away, details that have been confirmed later. What kind of "dreams" are these?




It is possible that this person was having suicidal thoughts in the days before her death. One of the things Sylvia teaches is that suicide is the ultimate wrong we can commit here, because we break our contract to survive all trials and tribulations. The result is that we must immediately re-enter the Earth realm, i.e. be physically reinstated on Earth as a newborn, to learn our lessons all over again. Some NDE people who had their NDE after a suicide attempt have reported being in this vast realm of darkness before being allowed to survive their death.





Ok, so your faith is with the scientists, the ones who say it's all a matter of chemistry, there is no eternal soul, etc. That's fine, you are free to put your faith where it suits you most.

But aren't you the least intrigued that these vibrant dreams are not chaotic nor muddy as you might expect from brain cells that are having death spasms, but are instead EXTREMELY clear and that many things hidden to us in this realm are revealed during these dreams?






The sources are out there, must I do all your work for you?




Yes, I've loved this one and have dwelt on that thought long before I ever read the quote. But according to Sylvia, we have all been on the other side for countless eons of Earth time and in coming to Earth, we are necessarily purged of all those memories. You prefer the simpler explanation, which denies the existence of your soul.






Sylvia writes that all types of animals and plants exist on the other side. No insects, apparently. She also writes of other civilizations, practically infinite numbers of them, throughout the universe.

Forbidden by who? She seems to be just full of excuses. Why is her abilities always used for comfort, you have to think that some of the people she is talking to beyond the grave are in the bad afterlife, not everyone lives a good life.

That just sounds stupid to me, love holds all of creation/existence together?? It sounds terribly poetic and pretty, but that's a fairy-tale, it's a nice lie but nothing more. It makes absolutely no sense to me, love is just a chemical reaction in the brain nothing more, but yet somehow that holds all of everything together?

I'm pretty sure she was not suicidal(she might have been I don't really know), a bit stupid but not suicidal, she liked to party, she had a disease which is what made her heart stop(I don't know the exact specifics).

I don't buy that for a second, suicide is the ultimate wrong? Is she a moron? I guess slaughtering millions of people is less evil/wrong then killing yourself? That is just illogical and foolish.

faith when defined non-religiously can be:
complete confidence in a person or plan(which is impossible when it comes to science because science is always changing, always adapting, getting better, more complete), It is also impossible to have complete confidence in a human because all humans are fallible.
and the second definition
loyalty or allegiance to a cause or a person(I would say I'm aligned on the side of science vs superstition, but the difference is I don't have faith blindly, I look at the facts and evidence and make a decision based on that)

We don't understand the brain completely yet, it is still a mystery, so I can't give you an answer about NDEs and these dreams until I have more knowledge on the subject myself(and the scientists as well), but I refute superstition on the basis that it is illogical and there is no evidence for it(human psychology can explain the reasons for most superstition).

The simpler more logical explanation is what I accept, since absence of evidence, is the best evidence for absence in this case the soul.

No Insects? why? I bet she isn't a friend of nature and doesn't like insects so she wouldn't want them to be in her 'perfect' afterlife based on her own ideals. A major reason I don't trust most God-garbage is it is always humans saying they know the 'word of God', humans always talk for God, you'd think an omnipotent,omniscient, omnipresent God would have the ability to tell us what he wants first-hand.

The sources are out there? But you must remember this is the internet and a certain degree of doubt must be used when doing research on the internet.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Forbidden by who? She seems to be just full of excuses. Why is her abilities always used for comfort, you have to think that some of the people she is talking to beyond the grave are in the bad afterlife, not everyone lives a good life.

Forbidden by the same laws that govern all our existence on Earth, such as that we absolutely cannot go back in time and change something in the past (at least not without somehow jumping into a parallel universe). That makes perfect logical sense. What you need to realize in order to grow (spiritually) is that there are limitations placed on us here that we simply cannot break through. Knowing our future in great detail is one of these limitations.

That just sounds stupid to me, love holds all of creation/existence together?? It sounds terribly poetic and pretty, but that's a fairy-tale, it's a nice lie but nothing more. It makes absolutely no sense to me, love is just a chemical reaction in the brain nothing more, but yet somehow that holds all of everything together?

Anyone who does not acknowledge the power of love is lost (but not lost forever, by grace). Additionally not believing that they are lost, nor understanding why, is in indication of extreme spiritual immaturity.

I don't buy that for a second, suicide is the ultimate wrong? Is she a moron? I guess slaughtering millions of people is less evil/wrong then killing yourself? That is just illogical and foolish.

Well, Adam, think for a moment. If someone proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that your soul will live forever and will not suffer want or need (just hold onto that for a moment, don't fight it), what value would you then place on your Earthly existence? Practically zero. That means slaughtering millions of Earth people has no real significance, especially when you add to that the fact that all of those millions that were slaughtered agreed before they even came to Earth that they would be slaughtered!

But -- and this is a very big but -- it is not meant for us as a civilization or as a species to place zero value on Earthly existence. It is meant for MOST OF US to place value on it and thus to have a justice system that punishes those who slaughter or do other injustices to other people. You are showing yourself to be, in your current incarnation, one of these people. That is ok, because the rest of us do not disagree with this. We know that it must be so. I am all for Charles Manson being kept in prison for life, or heck, even put to death if the courts were to decide that. But at the same time, I know that the soul that is in his body will ultimately unite with it's creator. This is promised to all of us.

Oh, and I know you wrote something earlier about living forever would mean ultimately being bored, or something like that. What you are ignoring is the concept of infinity. Just as we can live eternally, so we can learn eternally. Just look at chess as an example. There is probably some finite number of possibly unique chess games. An unimaginable huge number, larger than the number of atoms in the universe, but still most likely finite. However, what about the rules of chess? Is it not possible that there might be infinite or nearly infinite ways to change the rules of chess, with each rule change creating another unimaginably huge number of possible games? And when chess and it's variants get exhausted, well, then there's poker! Or what about hockey, how many games of hockey would have to be played before it became impossible to have a unique game of hockey?

There are plenty of other mental / physical exercises besides games that could be extended into infinity.

Since you are not willing to delve further into Sylvia's teachings because of your Earthly bounds, I invite you to really, really start thinking about infinity. But of course, first of all you have to believe in it.

We don't understand the brain completely yet, it is still a mystery, so I can't give you an answer about NDEs and these dreams until I have more knowledge on the subject myself(and the scientists as well), but I refute superstition on the basis that it is illogical and there is no evidence for it(human psychology can explain the reasons for most superstition).

Well, this answer was the most disappointing I've seen from you, a total cop-out. It would be as bad if I posted tomorrow saying I was briefly dead tonight, and I visited you while dead, proving it by outlining in great detail everything you did tonight, every sentence you uttered or action you took, with nothing being wrong or amiss. And you responded that you don't understand my brain yet, so you can't give an answer about whether I really have a soul that left my body and visited you while I was dead.

If that isn't enough evidence for you, there is not much hope for you in your current incarnation. You will need to reincarnate at least one more time, or in this incarnation you will need to have your own NDE.

The sources are out there? But you must remember this is the internet and a certain degree of doubt must be used when doing research on the internet.

Well, how do you handle your sources for AGW? How do you verify them? Do the same for the sources you find regarding those who have been hyptonized into one of their past lives and recall names and events that independant researchers have later verified.

You claim to be so excellent at gathering evidence and making judgments based on facts and validation of sources. Maybe you don't WANT to do this for reincarnation, maybe you're afraid of finding out something you don't want to believe in???

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Maybe you don't WANT to do this for reincarnation, maybe you're afraid of finding out something you don't want to believe in???

Or maybe Paul is full of you-know-what. I know which way I'm betting.

As to being afraid of finding out something they don't want to know, Paul's an excellent example of just that when it comes to climate change. So that makes him just another boring hypocrite.

[Adam Cormier]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Forbidden by the same laws that govern all our existence on Earth, such as that we absolutely cannot go back in time and change something in the past (at least not without somehow jumping into a parallel universe). That makes perfect logical sense. What you need to realize in order to grow (spiritually) is that there are limitations placed on us here that we simply cannot break through. Knowing our future in great detail is one of these limitations.





Anyone who does not acknowledge the power of love is lost (but not lost forever, by grace). Additionally not believing that they are lost, nor understanding why, is in indication of extreme spiritual immaturity.





Well, Adam, think for a moment. If someone proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt that your soul will live forever and will not suffer want or need (just hold onto that for a moment, don't fight it), what value would you then place on your Earthly existence? Practically zero. That means slaughtering millions of Earth people has no real significance, especially when you add to that the fact that all of those millions that were slaughtered agreed before they even came to Earth that they would be slaughtered!

But -- and this is a very big but -- it is not meant for us as a civilization or as a species to place zero value on Earthly existence. It is meant for MOST OF US to place value on it and thus to have a justice system that punishes those who slaughter or do other injustices to other people. You are showing yourself to be, in your current incarnation, one of these people. That is ok, because the rest of us do not disagree with this. We know that it must be so. I am all for Charles Manson being kept in prison for life, or heck, even put to death if the courts were to decide that. But at the same time, I know that the soul that is in his body will ultimately unite with it's creator. This is promised to all of us.

Oh, and I know you wrote something earlier about living forever would mean ultimately being bored, or something like that. What you are ignoring is the concept of infinity. Just as we can live eternally, so we can learn eternally. Just look at chess as an example. There is probably some finite number of possibly unique chess games. An unimaginable huge number, larger than the number of atoms in the universe, but still most likely finite. However, what about the rules of chess? Is it not possible that there might be infinite or nearly infinite ways to change the rules of chess, with each rule change creating another unimaginably huge number of possible games? And when chess and it's variants get exhausted, well, then there's poker! Or what about hockey, how many games of hockey would have to be played before it became impossible to have a unique game of hockey?

There are plenty of other mental / physical exercises besides games that could be extended into infinity.

Since you are not willing to delve further into Sylvia's teachings because of your Earthly bounds, I invite you to really, really start thinking about infinity. But of course, first of all you have to believe in it.




Well, this answer was the most disappointing I've seen from you, a total cop-out. It would be as bad if I posted tomorrow saying I was briefly dead tonight, and I visited you while dead, proving it by outlining in great detail everything you did tonight, every sentence you uttered or action you took, with nothing being wrong or amiss. And you responded that you don't understand my brain yet, so you can't give an answer about whether I really have a soul that left my body and visited you while I was dead.

If that isn't enough evidence for you, there is not much hope for you in your current incarnation. You will need to reincarnate at least one more time, or in this incarnation you will need to have your own NDE.





Well, how do you handle your sources for AGW? How do you verify them? Do the same for the sources you find regarding those who have been hyptonized into one of their past lives and recall names and events that independant researchers have later verified.

You claim to be so excellent at gathering evidence and making judgments based on facts and validation of sources. Maybe you don't WANT to do this for reincarnation, maybe you're afraid of finding out something you don't want to believe in???

And how do we know about these laws? They seem to me to be just created out of people's imagination. Time Travel on the other hand is an interesting subject, Dr. Michio Kaku (theoretical physicist) believes it is possible and says we will have the technology to be invisible in 10-15 years.

Acknowledge the power of love? Stop living in a fairy-tale! this is reality there is no such thing as that, life isn't a romance novel or a chick-flick, things don't work like that in real life.

The problem is someone has to prove that the soul exists beyond a shadow of a doubt, which I don't believe is possible.

Current and only incarnation you might want to add(unless my earlier incarnation was Albert Einstein).

So your religious beliefs is that no matter how bad someone is they will live in paradise with the creator and eventually become part of it. Have fun with Hitler...

You are implying souls or whatever we are up in your afterlife will want to do all these things for eternity, which is most-likely far from the truth. Too think everyone likes everything and will do everything for all of eternity is extremely tedious(and sounds boring to me). Plus don't we just become part of the creator in your afterlife, so we cease to exist anyways eventually.

Infinity is interesting, but Dr. Lawrence Krauss (physics professor) at one of his lectures talked about how little we know about the subject. He also criticizes string theory for various reasons.

I'm not willing to delve into Slyvia Browne's teachings because I'd rather look at the mass amounts of contradicting evidence to her abilities,teachings and her entire life basically.

Stop-Silvia Browne(an older website but with lots of links about all the screw-ups of Slyvia Browne and her lies, etc...)

But that would never happen, so I'm still unconvinced, you couldn't die follow me around that day seeing what I did and then come back to life, it's not possible.

If I do have a near-death experience it will be completely different from those of the religious because of my brain's feelings and opinions and how it influences NDEs.

There are other ways to gain knowledge about AGW then the internet, and if I go to a university website, that has lectures about AGW by world-renowned climatologists, that's a bit more convincing then some redneck down in the states. top ten facts why AGW is bullshit(and a few of his reasons are from the bible).

Maybe I don't want to waste my time researching some convict like Slyvia Browne with insane religious beliefs. I'm much more interested in academia courses(sciences and maths) then superstition.

[Peter Bokhout]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Out of body experiences are not as uncommon as you may think. I had one myself while I was a university student in the 1970s, and was involved in a near-fatal car accident. If anyone would like to know more, my email address is pbokhout@rogers.com.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

....Acknowledge the power of love? Stop living in a fairy-tale! this is reality there is no such thing as that, life isn't a romance novel or a chick-flick, things don't work like that in real life.

Why don't you try telling us then, Adam: what are all the forces that make up our physical universe? Where do they come from? Gravity? Electric charge? Electromagnetic force? Magnetic attraction?

Whatever answer you could possibly give is just as possible, no more and no less, than the answer that most NDE'ers give: that it all stems from the force of love.

Sounds like your real life sucks. A total lack of love in your life could make you dangerous.

....you couldn't die follow me around that day seeing what I did and then come back to life, it's not possible.

And yet there is ample and irrefutable evidence that it has been done, many times over. By disagreeing with this, you show yourself to be a fraud in arguing for AGW, because you prove that you won't investigate and refute evidence that contradicts your position.

Maybe I don't want to waste my time researching some convict like Slyvia Browne with insane religious beliefs. I'm much more interested in academia courses(sciences and maths) then superstition.

I notice you are getting more shrill and using stronger and stronger language in putting down Sylvia's teachings. Yet still, you haven't answered my question to you much earlier on about the ball bearing that isn't really there. Your exalted sciences and maths prove it. The very things you hold dear teach you that your very reality is superstition.


Summary: Adam is from the Ed Seedhouse School of Self Delusion: the tendency to believe that one is open minded and considers all evidence equally, while actually refusing to investigate and provide refutation for lines of evidence that lead to conclusions contradicting one's predisposed beliefs.

[Adam Cormier]

Re: The One and Only Climate Change thread...

Why don't you try telling us then, Adam: what are all the forces that make up our physical universe? Where do they come from? Gravity? Electric charge? Electromagnetic force? Magnetic attraction?

Whatever answer you could possibly give is just as possible, no more and no less, than the answer that most NDE'ers give: that it all stems from the force of love.

Sounds like your real life sucks. A total lack of love in your life could make you dangerous.




And yet there is ample and irrefutable evidence that it has been done, many times over. By disagreeing with this, you show yourself to be a fraud in arguing for AGW, because you prove that you won't investigate and refute evidence that contradicts your position.




I notice you are getting more shrill and using stronger and stronger language in putting down Sylvia's teachings. Yet still, you haven't answered my question to you much earlier on about the ball bearing that isn't really there. Your exalted sciences and maths prove it. The very things you hold dear teach you that your very reality is superstition.


Summary: Adam is from the Ed Seedhouse School of Self Delusion: the tendency to believe that one is open minded and considers all evidence equally, while actually refusing to investigate and provide refutation for lines of evidence that lead to conclusions contradicting one's predisposed beliefs.

I never said I had a lack of love, i just told you what love is, and how it is impossible for it to have any power whatsoever, and thinking anything else is nothing short of complete delusion, you should check yourself into a mental hospital and everyone else who believes that should go in with you. Obviously just because I disagree with you on the so-called power of love makes me a heartless bastard, idiocy at its finest.

Maybe next time try being a bit more specific, all the forces of the universe? matter and energy make up our universe, what do you mean by forces(energy could be considered a force)?

I'd rather believe some form of God created all the forces of the universe then love(even though both are obviously false). That is how deplorable I feel your position is...

Simple and irrefutable evidence that you fail too provide, since you kept on telling me to do research I did and I found quite a bit of contradictory evidence(who would have expected that, everyone besides Paul Bonham).

This is what I found:
"Like all human experiences, the NDE no doubt has a biologically-based trigger; yet its impact is most often felt as a psychological or spiritual event". So yeah they happen but they are because of the brain. Source: What is a NDE?-scroll down to the bottom to see the FACT section and why NDE's don't mean anything or prove anything.

Again proving how logic and reasoning often fall short when things get emotional and people start being irrational.

Penn and Teller-Bullshit talk about the the lunacy of the Ouija boards and believing NDE prove there is an afterlife(or has any real meaning at all, because of what modern neuroscience has to say about them ). Penn and Teller also have a couple episodes on the bullshit of physics and ESP, i implore you to check it out and realize the falsehood of your current beliefs.


Here's a nice list of why people can possibly lie about their NDE(like meeting the creator, and being with their family,etc..)

* money (from book-selling)
* enhancing a list of one's "spiritual" experiences (for sellers of spiritual hot air)
* being able to claim that one has a god-given mission in life
* giving additional (again god-given) legitimacy to one's advancing of (the religious side of) some sort of campaign

You keep talking about that how the metal ball is nothing analogy, like it is important.

Superstition: an irrational belief arising from ignorance or fear

believing the metal ball is there is not irrational at the non-microscopic level because I can see it and hold it. Fear and ignorance don't come into play at all. I actually did answer your metal ball analogy back when I compared a metal ball to God for example(which proves their are different levels of superstition). How do you know that space is empty? Lawrence Krauss has a lecture talking about dark matter, maybe the metal ball is full of dark matter, just like space which apparently has massive gaps of nothingness but it is actually full of dark matter.

Now that I think about it, it probably would have been more logical to begin ridiculing at laughing at your delusional beliefs(like Ed) then actually debating you on it's fallacious nature. I actually found something Vlad and I agree on because of you(reincarnation, and some other parts of your beliefs).

You don't realize that is exactly what you are doing you aren't looking at any of the contradicting evidence, I do see your side and I'm not convinced in the slightest. There is much much more evidence going against your position then for it.