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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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Still haven't figured out how to use the board properly after all this time, eh Gary?
What does this comment have to do with the title of the thread: "The One and Only Climate Change thread... / Solar Power". Please keep all commentary relevant. Thanks.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Au contraire, I think that retooling our economy to get off the fossil fuel dependence will create loads of jobs and prosperity. Not economic ruin but an economic resurgence. Once again the West will become stronger; not a slave to Middle East oil or Chinese products.
Wow, do you sound like Obama. Unfortunately, he hasn't shown one original idea since he took office. He has to keep convening committees and soliciting bipartisan ideas, because he is bankrupt of any ideas of his own.
Anyway, you continue to avoid the psychological ramifications of your position. The utopian retooling you are talking about requires a mental retooling that simply isn't going to happen without violence. Americans will NOT give up their SUVs without a fight. The Saudis will NOT give up their remaining decades of oil income without a fight. The Chinese will NOT give up their exports without a fight.
Utopia is not within sight, it is a mirage. No technology -- not hydrogen, not fusion, not wind or solar power -- can offer us anything near the lifestyle we currently enjoy. Freedoms would have to be curtailed, living standards severely downgraded, and changes of that kind of magnitude cause anger and violence.
Picture it like this: imagine if chess organizers everywhere suddenly decided that chess960 was the only true test of chess skill and all tournaments must play chess960 rules only. What do you think the reaction of the player establishment would be to that utopian vision?
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
... Anyway, you continue to avoid the psychological ramifications of your position. The utopian retooling you are talking about requires a mental retooling that simply isn't going to happen without violence. Americans will NOT give up their SUVs without a fight. The Saudis will NOT give up their remaining decades of oil income without a fight. The Chinese will NOT give up their exports without a fight. ...
I agree with your entire post, but this part I think is pretty much undeniable. Did anyone see the interview with Bernanke on 60 Minutes?
I was watching with my wife, and she said to me "Who's this guy? He looks like a liar." I had to agree. His posture and general demeanor was that of someone afraid, and hoping to sell something. Anyone who has seen the videos of people shopping on Black Friday this year has to know that asking (North) Americans to consume less is a message that almost no one is going to buy - after all, it's not produced by the Chinese. ;-)
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
How is paying eight, ten or twelve times the going rate for electricity going to retool the economy? Wind and solar power as it is currently being sold to the few gullible people left who still believe in global warming as a science, is a total waste of money since it is not reliable and will require nuclear or coal plants to supply power on a reliable basis. Our power that costs eighty cents will be sold to the Americans for one cent because it will be generated when we don't need it. They really need to solve the power storage problem before they roll out these megaprojects. Until they do, they are just wasting money and will require a future government to make the hard decision to allow our energy companies to go bankrupt to escape the insane contracts that the government made them sign. Investors in these companies should realize that there is no such thing as a free lunch and they will not get the returns that they expect.
In 24 months or less most of the "green" governments in Canada and the U.S. will be gone, swept out of power by the broom of history. Our newpaper carries a column by a Mr. Suzuki this week lamenting the fact that Liberal senators sat on their hands and didn't bother voting for the climate change bill passed by the House of Commons and thus allowed it to die. I guess they decided to responsibly exercise their duties as a chamber of sober second thought.
Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Tuesday, 7th December, 2010, 01:05 AM.
For an excellent guide giving you the basics to destroy all the rubbish from the skeptics go to: http://www.skepticalscience.com/ and download "The scientific guide to global warming skepticism".
Check the contributers list; I am on it...Do your own research on the topics if you are not convinced...Thanks to Vlad, Gary, and other skeptics for making sure that I was aware of most of the skeptic talking points...
Last edited by Paul Beckwith; Wednesday, 8th December, 2010, 01:35 PM.
It is generally accepted that oil subsidies from the government are huge. Without them is oil viable? The only difference is that the oil ones are hidden and status quo; do you realize how large they are?
"It is generally accepted that oil subsidies from the government are huge. Without them is oil viable? "
I can't believe you actually said this!
We can all try to use less energy. We are apparently going to phase out dirty coal....perhaps and some day. We are going to invest billions of dollars in totally uneconomic, and unaffordable, wind and solar. Meanwhile we can bleat about that nasty oil, gas and nuclear....until the damn light go out! Then the game plan changes overnight, and the silent majority stops giving all of you your day in the headlines!
See what's starting to happen at the gas pumps......
It is generally accepted that oil subsidies from the government are huge. Without them is oil viable? The only difference is that the oil ones are hidden and status quo; do you realize how large they are?
You are so out of touch it is laughable. By your own logic you have no standing to talk about power generation since you have no education nor (obviously) any understanding of the issues involved. You make the claim "lies, lies, lies" and I thought you were advertising your next post. How are oil subsidies huge when you compare them to paying 10 or 12 times the wholesale rate to "green" power projects for a guaranteed 20 years? Now that is HUGE!
Here is what that bastion of liberalism the Toronto Star had to say about the current situation in Ontario:
The loonie left claimed that green power would only raise rates one percent a year. It has raised rates at about seven or eight times that rate. There is a reason that many long time Liberals are deciding not to run in the next Ontario election. They see the writing in the tea leaves. There is a HUGE backlash coming. With it will come the end of this type of nonsense. The pendulum is swinging back.
"Premier Dalton McGuinty and Smitherman vowed at the time of the GEA's introduction that it would add no more than 1 per cent to the average homeowner's power bill.
Instead, electricity prices have soared 18 per cent this year. Sharp, who analyzed the electricity market through the lens of the GEA last summer, forecasts a 26 per cent hike in rates in 2011, which he said would translate into a price jump of 3.04 cents per kilowatt hour (kWh) and add about $304 to a typical consumer's electricity bill in 2011.
By 2015 the typical Ontario household will be paying between 38 per cent and 41 per cent more for power.
Last week, Finance Minister Dwight Duncan — himself a former energy minister — corroborated Sharp's numbers. To placate an electorate increasingly irate over energy costs, he added yet another entry to the electricity industry's bewildering array of acronyms and programs.
The Liberals conceded that the 1 per cent rate increase promised a little over a year ago was wildly optimistic, and that the hike would be 7.9 per cent annually for the next five years."
Even assuming you are totally right on the science of global change, you still haven't answered about the costs of following your vision, except to give pie-in-the-sky proclamations about how it will create zillions of jobs and lead to a better life for everyone. It may not have occurred to you that not everyone wants to follow the Green agenda because it would make their personal lives unpleasant short-term, and maybe long-term as well. Since actions are 1000x stronger than words, and in order to encourage others to make sacrifices you should have to make a few of your own, I have a few questions:
1) How many children do you have? If you have more than two, how can you justify having so many when population growth exacerbates many of the world's largest problems, including increasing CO2?
2) Do you own/drive a car? If so, how can you justify that when you live in a city with somewhat reliable mass transit?
3) Do you have a house with a yard? If so, do you use any of the land to grow your own food? If so, what percentage of your yard-space do you use?
4) Are you vegetarian? Meat is energy-intensive food.
5) Do you buy items produced and shipped from outside of Canada? How can you justify that when the energy costs of buying things from faraway are enormous?
The problem I have is that Greens seem to want others to change their lives in big, unpleasant ways while Greens think change means that they buy free-trade coffee (shipped in from South America), and drive smaller cars (normally ones still ultimately produced and powered with "evil" oil. Even people who are somewhat sympathetic to your arguments (as I am) are just not going to go along with this agenda until you demonstrate leadership through your actions rather than your rhetoric.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
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