Chess on ice

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Chess on ice

Curling has a huge grassroots following in Canada. It is a lot harder to build and maintain a curling club then to set up chess games. One might ask why chess is so dead in the water right now in Canada.

Chess really isn't as dead in the water as you say. It's simply moved to the newer technology at the expense of the over the board clubs and national federation. Canadian chess players are everywhere. On the internet chess sites, in the schools, at seniors facilities and in correspondence chess.

It's a case of market share. Probably they can't compete in the seniors market because the seniors I've met at the club like offhand games. Correspondence chess is kind of specialized. Some players already play both OTB rated and some don't.

I think the CFC has to pick up market share from the juniors and from the internet.

With the juniors you've pointed out some of the problems. With internet players the CFC doesn't have a presence.

There seems to be a decent chess scene in Quebec, Ottawa, Calgary, Winnipeg is probably active, and I don't know where else. I doubt it's any worse than it was in the early 1960's.

I like Norways "fancy pants". I intend to ask my friend Arild where I can get a pair.

The main point I take away from this is with the government funding for the Olympic program the last number of years, and the 20, 15 and 10 thousand dollars for earning a gold, silver and bronze medal we have seem to have a record haul of golds with a possiblity of setting new Olympic record for golds with a win tomorrow, if we can get it.

[Dan Scoones]

Re: Chess on ice

Both also have resemblances to chess. I love chess, I greatly prefer chess, but that doesn't make me want to discount other games or claim that they bear no resemblances or have no parallels with chess. Actually all games have resemblances to chess, as mathematical Game Theory shows.

All good points, but the original proposition was that curling IS chess on ice; not that curling resembles chess. The original proposition cannot be literally true, but even taken metaphorically it is still rather strong. What seems to have riled up the curlers is a mistaken perception of disrespect toward curling.

Go is a much deeper game than chess, as many go players love to point out. When the Victoria Go Club met at QV I used to watch from time to time and I heard that claim quite often. They kept asking why I played chess instead of go and I eventually had to muster the reply that I was much better at chess than any of them were at go, and I wasn't about to give that up and start over.

A few years ago Bill Robertie -- a two-time world champion -- published an article in Inside Backgammon magazine demonstrating that chess is a much deeper game than backgammon. But backgammon is still a great game and I would never give it up just because there is more to chess. Starting from today, I could never be the world chess champion, but there is a chance -- a small one but still realistic -- that I could win the world backgammon championship. Does that mean that backgammon is a "better" game than chess? Yes or no, depending on other assumptions, which are often unstated. It has to be the same with curling.

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Chess on ice

Dan, I think you underestimate the strategic aspects of curling. In fact, if career chess players wanted a more physical activity to take part in alongside their chess curling might be ideal. The only problem is curling is difficult to take up first year, and it takes at least two years to acquire enough skills to be considered for the two back end positions ( who decide 98% of the strategy ). You can't just be a thinker you need to be able to execute shots as well.

Comparing it to shuffeboard is a red herring really it only resembles the game on a very surface level. The same way chess resembles checkers; would you really enjoy playing in a checker tournament ?

[Duncan Smith]

Re: Chess on ice

Chess is in trouble in certain segments ( eg live otb events in Canada ). I would also say that the CMA was doing real well here around year 1995-2000 due to some changing demographics, momentum, new coaches, and some new talents. A lot of that momentum has reversed I think ( they would know better ), a certain degree of that due to the reception the CFC had for the juniors coming out of the CMA scene. They just weren't ready for the renewed interest and flubbed up a lot of projects. A lot of customers were willing to pay for quality projects but didn't always get good value.

Ken Craft is right curling has decent little rock and junior programs. I've coached a few years in these programs. It's not as big in numbers as some other sports until the players reach young adult age. Kind of the opposite of chess really. It might be that young adults crave social activities and clubs and chess is missing the boat somewhat in this regard. Without critical mass its hard to win over people ( kind of a catch 22 ).

ps I'm not joking around when I say some chess players might find curling particularily fun as a second activity.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Chess on ice

That team seems to know more about promoting the game then anyone in Canadian chess. Let me know when a chess event has Stephen Harper and Don Sutherland in attendance one day, Wayne Gretzky on another day.

Curling has a huge grassroots following in Canada. It is a lot harder to build and maintain a curling club then to set up chess games. One might ask why chess is so dead in the water right now in Canada.

In Canada, does anyone sell DVDs with video of high level curling matches, taken from TV broadcasts? I"m really fascinated with the strategy that goes into it.

[Ernest Klubis]

Re: Chess on ice

Paul, you can watch Brier on TSN March 6-14, 3 draws daily 9:30am, 2pm and 6:30pm.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Chess on ice

Paul, you can watch Brier on TSN March 6-14, 3 draws daily 9:30am, 2pm and 6:30pm.

I'm in the U.S. and don't get any Canadian channels :(

That's why I'm asking about DVD's.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Chess on ice

In Canada, does anyone sell DVDs with video of high level curling matches, taken from TV broadcasts? I"m really fascinated with the strategy that goes into it.

You may watch for free almost all Olympic matches at http://www.ctvolympics.ca/curling/index.html
(no commentaries, and not sure if it available outside Canada)

May someone point me to the Closing ceremony

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Chess on ice

May someone point me to the Closing ceremony

There are lots of videos on YouTube.

Or order/wait for the official video.

[Ernest Klubis]

Re: Chess on ice

In Canada, does anyone sell DVDs with video of high level curling matches, taken from TV broadcasts? I"m really fascinated with the strategy that goes into it.

Strategy? What "strategy"? Save your precious green papers. In curling there's NO strategy. Just two words "peel" and "hard". Ask manager of "Strategy Games and Accessories" if they have any curling books or videos. I want to see his facial reaction. :)

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: Chess on ice

Strategy? What "strategy"?

To anyone who actually takes the time to watch Curling, it obviously has a strategical dimension as well as a tactical one and a practical one. Chess lacks the later, mostly, and has a much higher level of the two others.

Most other games and sports have strategical elements and in Curling the former is at a higher level than most other games, though much less than Chess.

But to claim it has none is to deny the obvious reality and simply points one up as a fool.

[Ernest Klubis]

Re: Chess on ice

To anyone who actually takes the time to watch Curling, it obviously has a strategical dimension as well as a tactical one and a practical one. Chess lacks the later, mostly, and has a much higher level of the two others.

Ed, please provide a complete list of practical dimension that chess lacks but exist in curling.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Chess on ice

Ed, please provide a complete list of practical dimension that chess lacks but exist in curling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEzNGptap6s

BTW, I might be the original inventor of this. My first job out of college was in a clean room facility in Mississauga. Often many of us would stay late nights. When all the bosses had gone home (and our work was done), we cleared out the clean room and played chair curling. I organized the whole thing, and I still have video of it. It was a little different though: players pushed the chair hard enough to go down the length of the floor, and if you wanted it to curl, you put a spin on it. No one rode the chair as they are doing here.

[Ed Seedhouse]

Re: Chess on ice

Ed, please provide a complete list of practical dimension that chess lacks but exist in curling.

Really this is so obvious as to hardly merit a reply. When you choose a move in chess, you just pick up a piece and move it where you intend. Occasionally you have to make the effort of picking up two but, unless you are physically handicapped having chosen a move there is almost never any difficulty in actually making it.

In curling, on the other hand, you may choose a certain shot, but shots, even though correct, are often very hard to make and games turn on this fact. Therefore in choosing a shot to make one must also consider the practicalities of actually being able to make it. Is the risk of taking the shot and failing worth the possible payoff for success?

Another "game" that features elements of tactics, planning, and practicality is one I took part in for many years (at a modest level), namely rock climbing and mountaineering.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Chess on ice

Ed, please provide a complete list of practical dimension that chess lacks but exist in curling.

In chess the move is finished by release of a finger. A thrower move might be adjusted by sweepers. What gives another dimension - it is a team sport.
(maybe they are not practical dimensions, only differences)