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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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(FIDE ratings)
GM Evgeny Bareev 2667 FIDE ID
GM Eduardas Rozentalis 2628 FIDE ID
GM Alexander Shabalov 2587 FIDE ID
GM Joshua Friedel 2543 FIDE ID
GM Walter Arencibia 2500 FIDE ID
IM Luis Lazaro Aguero Jimenez 2398 FIDE ID
(CFC ratings)
Daniel Abrahams 2084 CFC ID
Rod Hill 1933 CFC ID
David Poirier 1855 CFC ID
Ferdinand Supsup 1783 CFC ID
Caesar Posylek 1708 CFC ID
Richard Keep 1690 CFC ID
Doug Sly 1628 CFC ID
James Mourgelas 1596 CFC ID
Peter W. Hazen 1565 CFC ID
Andre Siegel 1514 CFC ID
Victor Okon 0 CFC ID
Lots of GM's... well at least somebody likes the prize distributions
The fact is that the prize distribution for 2010 Canadian Open leans towards class prizes more than previous Canadian Opens.
Several GMs already signed up are due to another reason. GMs need to schedule their tounaments and make travel arrangements far in advance. The organizing committee is also inetersted to sign up GMs early...And you see the result...
The fact is that the prize distribution for 2010 Canadian Open leans towards class prizes more than previous Canadian Opens.
Several GMs already signed up are due to another reason. GMs need to schedule their tounaments and make travel arrangements far in advance. The organizing committee is also inetersted to sign up GMs early...And you see the result...
Ilia Bluvshtein
You do have a point. For the class prizes for lower rated players (like U1400 for example) The first place prize is alot larger than previous Canadian Opens. However, for class prizes for the stronger players (U2000, U2200, and U2400) the prizes look quite a lot less attractive than previous Canadian Opens. And don't forget this Canadian Open will have a bigger prize fund than the previous ones. $6500 for first place seems to be a record for Canadian tournaments (haven't seen one bigger), so why not make a record for class prizes?
Also, yeah. GM's do sign up early. They need to plan their travel, I agree. Maybe the TD's wanted them to sign up to increase coverage or attract more players. For increasing coverage, maybe thats the way to go. Although they could do a much better job by lowering that extremely high entry fee instead and getting more class prizes. Still, unless the GM is going to point out your strategical mistakes in your game and give improvements, you're more or less just getting crushed by Rybka (in a slightly less accurate manner), except that counts towards your tournament score...
But I think everyone agrees that the GM's like the prize distribution ;)
You do have a point. For the class prizes for lower rated players (like U1400 for example) The first place prize is alot larger than previous Canadian Opens. However, for class prizes for the stronger players (U2000, U2200, and U2400) the prizes look quite a lot less attractive than previous Canadian Opens. And don't forget this Canadian Open will have a bigger prize fund than the previous ones. $6500 for first place seems to be a record for Canadian tournaments (haven't seen one bigger), so why not make a record for class prizes?
Also, yeah. GM's do sign up early. They need to plan their travel, I agree. Maybe the TD's wanted them to sign up to increase coverage or attract more players. For increasing coverage, maybe thats the way to go. Although they could do a much better job by lowering that extremely high entry fee instead and getting more class prizes. Still, unless the GM is going to point out your strategical mistakes in your game and give improvements, you're more or less just getting crushed by Rybka (in a slightly less accurate manner), except that counts towards your tournament score...
But I think everyone agrees that the GM's like the prize distribution ;)
Obviously, Jim wants the Canadian Open to include Class Sections instead of one big Canadian Open Section with higher Class Sections prizes because he had been consistently winning Class Section tournaments after tournaments (PWC Under 2000 and HART House Under 1800 to name a few) and crushing lower-rated opponents like his Rybka Chess Engine and wanted more money prize for an entry fee of $175. Of course, in an Open Section where he will be facing tougher and higher-rated opponents, he has no assurance of a prize this time. Last years Canadian Open in Alberta has an entry fee of $135 and a Class prize of $1000. Jim, now tell me honestly, if that is reasonable to you, how much do you spend to play in Alberta? How much is your plane ticket? How much is your hotel accomodations for 9 days? The $175 entry is reasonably cheap if you live in Toronto. Well, the obvious consolation you could get in playing in Alberta is you see the place and that's the similar reason why GMs comes down to play in International Tournaments! Well, the chess organizers have to factor into their accounts the costs of holding a national/open tournament like this one. From there, they will decide entry fees to cover the expenses. It's in their discretion to make sure they will not incur losses. Sometimes, we have to put ourselves in their shoes.
You do have a point. For the class prizes for lower rated players (like U1400 for example) The first place prize is alot larger than previous Canadian Opens. However, for class prizes for the stronger players (U2000, U2200, and U2400) the prizes look quite a lot less attractive than previous Canadian Opens. And don't forget this Canadian Open will have a bigger prize fund than the previous ones. $6500 for first place seems to be a record for Canadian tournaments (haven't seen one bigger), so why not make a record for class prizes?
Also, yeah. GM's do sign up early. They need to plan their travel, I agree. Maybe the TD's wanted them to sign up to increase coverage or attract more players. For increasing coverage, maybe thats the way to go. Although they could do a much better job by lowering that extremely high entry fee instead and getting more class prizes. Still, unless the GM is going to point out your strategical mistakes in your game and give improvements, you're more or less just getting crushed by Rybka (in a slightly less accurate manner), except that counts towards your tournament score...
But I think everyone agrees that the GM's like the prize distribution ;)
Its interesting to notice that 50% of the pre-registered participants are from outside Ontario.
Considering the excellent venue, the giveaways, potential chess equipments for sale, watch quality games from the top boards on screen and onsite, watch/play chess simuls, watch/play blitz games, post games analysis, possible broadcast of your games @ Monroi Live, more than compensate for the entertainment and the entry fee of $175 for 9 days. If you perform well beyond your playing strength, you can get a prize (perhaps 5.5/9 points is good enough for a class section prize), perhaps a possible Norm (7.0/9 points) and a share of the Open Section Prizes if you're lucky enough. The entry fee is fairly reasonable for a National and Open Chess Championship.
Obviously, Jim wants the Canadian Open to include Class Sections instead of one big Canadian Open Section with higher Class Sections prizes because he had been consistently winning Class Section tournaments after tournaments (PWC Under 2000 and HART House Under 1800 to name a few) and crushing lower-rated opponents like his Rybka Chess Engine and wanted more money prize for an entry fee of $175. Of course, in an Open Section where he will be facing tougher and higher-rated opponents, he has no assurance of a prize this time. Last years Canadian Open in Alberta has an entry fee of $135 and a Class prize of $1000. Jim, now tell me honestly, if that is reasonable to you, how much do you spend to play in Alberta? How much is your plane ticket? How much is your hotel accomodations for 9 days? The $175 entry is reasonably cheap if you live in Toronto. Well, the obvious consolation you could get in playing in Alberta is you see the place and that's the similar reason why GMs comes down to play in International Tournaments! Well, the chess organizers have to factor into their accounts the costs of holding a national/open tournament like this one. From there, they will decide entry fees to cover the expenses. It's in their discretion to make sure they will not incur losses. Sometimes, we have to put ourselves in their shoes.
When did I ever say I wanted that? I think I made it clear that I'd be interested in a lower entry fee and more class prizes. However, you make it sound like I win class events all the time! Far from true. Those were the ONLY CFC events I won prizes and I don't expect to win if I go to the Canadian Open, because I might get killed by some GM if I do well enough so I face them. And then there's your logic about the significantly increased costs in going to Alberta. I'm not denying that, but the stuff like plane tickets and hotels are NOT going to the tournament. And basically since the Canadian Open 2010 is a monopoly that means that they shouldn't care if Class players don't like their entry fees???
As I don't really expect to win if I go to the Canadian Open, its not the prize fund that is really disappointing me. It's that the tournament seems to be leaning towards attracting GM's instead of regular chessplayers. Increasing the class prize fund is not only exciting to class player who has a chance to win them, it also shows that the organizers are thinking of them and want them to compete. Again, are the GM's paying the entry fee? I doubt it. Although this is common, their accomidation is being paid for AND the prize fund is heavily leaning in their favor. 10 open placement prizes? Is this a world open??? The Canadian Open 2010 is like GM paradise. And I'm wondering, who's paying for the GM's accomidation and prizes? The heavy entry fees paid by regular chessplayers? I'm sure I'm not alone on this issue. Maybe this is the reason why alot of players don't want to go to the Canadian Open.
Honestly if the $175 entry fee that I would pay was going to the tournament for my group of chessplayers, even if I didn't win. At least I would have known the group (including me) would have had a chance to win a fair amount, which was possibly what we paid for. For example, lets say that 50 1600-1800 ranked players signed up. There is currently $1500 for them in prizes. 50 * 175 = 8570. And that's the minimum, since that's the "early bird" Hmm.. about 17% returned as prizes for them. That's just great... Of course it's just a possibility, but that's what I'm trying to get across.
If I wanted to win some class prizes, I wouldn't even have thought about entering the Canadian Open. I wanted to go because this is a unique event and I don't know the next time it will happen in Toronto.
Last edited by Jim Zhao; Wednesday, 24th March, 2010, 05:26 PM.
Without trying to sound like an elitist, I am of the opinion that any untitled chess player has no business trying to make a living from playing chess. This is entertainment for the masses. If a class player wanted to just play chess and nothing else, there's far cheaper opportunities out there. Sure, the class players will be contributing monies to the elite, as it should be. GMs and IMs are leading examples on how chess is / should be played. They develop new theory, they work harder, they set the standards.
We're paying $175 because we want to. I want to. From it, I'll get plenty of chess, opportunity to play a titled player, watch lectures, play in simuls, watch GMs do skittles, etc... etc... ~ 40 hours of chess for $175, plus all the other goodies?
The presence of Grandmasters *does* attract many other players. From the IM trying to get the rare experience (in Canada), to the Joe Schmoes enjoying watching high class games and having an opportunity to play against one of them. The fact that it takes place at a luxurious location also attracts more / different types of players. There are no doubts in my mind that this Canadian Open will be very successful.
Class players who go to tournaments to try to win a prize will find that working minimum wage anywhere will be a much more proffitable, and productive way of spending time.
If a fluke happens and we weakies win a prize... BONUS!
The above is just my personal opinion.
Certainly, there is no any problem, Gary! I don't see that topic in such a drastical way as you described. I think you are joking by saying "Pay them to play???", aren't you? Just see the result of that poll in the different thread.
Certainly, there is no any problem, Gary! I don't see that topic in such a drastical way as you described. I think you are joking by saying "Pay them to play???", aren't you? Just see the result of that poll in the different thread.
I looked. It wasn't in the one and only climate change thread so I looked harder. :) Then I found the proper thread. 19 say they will play and 20 have entered. Of the 20, are not the 6 GM's receiving appearance fees?
How many paid entrants do you think there will be?
When did I ever say I wanted that? I think I made it clear that I'd be interested in a lower entry fee and more class prizes.
A lower entry fee and do you mean higher class prizes? Canadian Open is a national event (CFC and FIDE rated) and not a city/town/provincial/weekend chess tournament. Similar to watching the AVATAR movie in 3D rather than in 2D where you pay more for the better entertainment. Can you site an example in the history of the Canadian Open where the Class prizes were higher and more than this year?
However, you make it sound like I win class events all the time! Far from true. Those were the ONLY CFC events I won prizes and I don't expect to win if I go to the Canadian Open, because I might get killed by some GM if I do well enough so I face them. And then there's your logic about the significantly increased costs in going to Alberta. I'm not denying that, but the stuff like plane tickets and hotels are NOT going to the tournament. And basically since the Canadian Open 2010 is a monopoly that means that they shouldn't care if Class players don't like their entry fees???
Here, I was referring to your total expenses in playing in such an event outside Toronto. How can you conclude that you can't win prizes when you are already playing at a level more than your current rating? GM's don't kill you, they will just beat you if you make mistakes. They are humans too that are prone to making mistakes not like your Rybka?!
As I don't really expect to win if I go to the Canadian Open, its not the prize fund that is really disappointing me. It's that the tournament seems to be leaning towards attracting GM's instead of regular chessplayers. Increasing the class prize fund is not only exciting to class player who has a chance to win them, it also shows that the organizers are thinking of them and want them to compete. Again, are the GM's paying the entry fee? I doubt it. Although this is common, their accomidation is being paid for AND the prize fund is heavily leaning in their favor. 10 open placement prizes? Is this a world open??? The Canadian Open 2010 is like GM paradise. And I'm wondering, who's paying for the GM's accomidation and prizes? The heavy entry fees paid by regular chessplayers? I'm sure I'm not alone on this issue. Maybe this is the reason why alot of players don't want to go to the Canadian Open.
.
That's the fruits of their labor, they worked hard and spent countless hours to earn their titles. They deserved it. They are attractions to chess events.
They should be treated with utmost respect for their love and dedication for the love of chess. Class players are well thought-off, that;s the reason that
there were several class prizes in the Under 2400,2200,2000,1800,1600,and 1400. Not that high as your expectation though.
Honestly if the $175 entry fee that I would pay was going to the tournament for my group of chessplayers, even if I didn't win. At least I would have known the group (including me) would have had a chance to win a fair amount, which was possibly what we paid for. For example, lets say that 50 1600-1800 ranked players signed up. There is currently $1500 for them in prizes. 50 * 175 = 8570. And that's the minimum, since that's the "early bird" Hmm.. about 17% returned as prizes for them. That's just great... Of course it's just a possibility, but that's what I'm trying to get across.
.
Everyone has chances to win, and leaned towards class prizes as Ilia had pointed out. The class prizes are just bonuses from good performances. You just have to work harder this time to earn it.
If I wanted to win some class prizes, I wouldn't even have thought about entering the Canadian Open. I wanted to go because this is a unique event and I don't know the next time it will happen in Toronto.
Why do you aim for the class prizes? Aim high and believe in yourself! that's all you got! The problem is, you haven't made your first move, you already lost psychologically. Play the Board not the Man! This is your showtime Jim!
We're paying $175 because we want to. I want to. From it, I'll get plenty of chess, opportunity to play a titled player, watch lectures, play in simuls, watch GMs do skittles, etc... etc... ~ 40 hours of chess for $175, plus all the other goodies?
Alex, you are right that class players should not look to chess as a way of making money. But you are in the minority in being willing to spend well over a hundred dollars just to experience a chess tournament with GMs and IMs.
All you need do is look at poker to see what happens when you charge very high entry fees BUT give everyone a decent chance to win. Not an equal chance, because there is skill in poker, but a DECENT chance. When people get a wiff of a decent chance to win BIG money, they will pay high entry fees IN THE THOUSANDS! That is, they'll pay THOUSANDS of dollars in entry fees and they'll do it by the THOUSANDS. Result: poker mania and TV coverage.
Chess is poker's poor cousin, and will remain that way. It's good that you and others will still devote your time and money to chess. But just because you will do it, don't generalize and believe that many, many others will do it. Remember poker.... THOUSANDS. Chess.... dozens.
Only the rushing is heard...
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The next time I'll include that and countries as well :)
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