Evaluation of Position

[Sam Haziprodromu]

Hi Guys I have been looking at this position in the French and I would appreciate feedback: e4..e6..d4..d5..e5..c5..f4..Nc6..c3..Qb6..Nf3..Nh6..Bd3..Bd7..O-O I am looking at castle here which sacs a pawn..

Sam

[Michael Yip]

Re: Evaluation of Position 8.0-0?!

8.0-0 seems dubious to me. I checked it against Megabase 2010 and did a brief analysis with Rybkka3.

Sam - ? [C02]
Chesstalk Question, 24.05.2010
[Yip]
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.f4 Nc6 5.c3 Qb6 6.Nf3 Nh6 7.Bd3 Bd7 8.0–0?! Is a bit optimistic. White just gives up a pawn to get a bad position.[Yip] 8...cxd4 9.Kh1

[9.cxd4 Taking the pawn plays into black's hands.[Yip] 9...Nxd4 10.Be3 (10.Nxd4? Qxd4+ 11.Kh1 Ng4! 12.Qe2 (12.Qxg4 Qxd3 13.Rd1 Qc2 14.Nc3 h5 15.Qf3 h4 16.h3 Rc8µ White is down a pawn, and is under severe pressure.[Yip]) 12...h5 13.h3 Bc5 14.Bb5 a6 15.Bxd7+ Kxd7 16.Nc3 Rac8 17.Bd2 Nf2+ 18.Kh2 Nd3 19.Nd1 Nxb2 20.Bc3 Qc4 21.Qxb2 Qxf1 22.Bd2 Bg1+ 0–1 Santilli,E (1892)-Basciu,S (2176)/Cagliari 2006/EXT 2007) 10...Nxf3+ 11.Qxf3 d4! 12.Bc1 (12.Bf2? Qxb2–+) 12...Bc6 13.Qh3 Nf5µ 14.Bxf5?! exf5 15.Qxf5 Bc5µ]

9...Rc8 Not the only strong move.[Yip]

[9...Ng4 10.cxd4 Nxd4 11.Nc3 Nxf3 12.Qxf3 h5!µ White has nothing to show for the pawn.[Yip]; 9...dxc3! 10.Nxc3 Ng4 11.Qe2 Be7 12.h3 h5! Emphasizes the poor position of white's king.[Yip]]

10.cxd4 [10.Qe2 dxc3 11.Nxc3 Nb4!µ Pushes white back.[Yip]] 10...Nb4 11.Nc3 Nxd3 12.Qxd3 Bb4 13.Rb1 Qa5 14.Bd2 Bxc3 15.bxc3 b6 16.Ng5 Rc7 17.Rb2 Bc8 18.Qb1 Qa6 19.Rf3 Rc4 20.Kg1 Qa4 21.Rh3 Bd7 22.Be1 Qa3 23.Nxh7 Ba4 24.Rf2 Ke7 25.Rxh6 gxh6 26.f5 Be8 27.fxe6 fxe6 28.Rf3 Kd8 29.Nf6 Qa4 30.Bh4 Kc8 31.Be1 Kb7 32.Rg3 Ka6 33.Rg7 Qa3 34.Nxe8 Rxe8 35.Qh7 Ra8 36.Qxh6 Qxa2 37.Qe3 Qc2 38.h3 Ra4 39.Kh2 Rf8 40.Bd2 Ra2 41.Qg5 Ra1 0–1 Coda,C-Berrocal Farina,J (2275)/Buenos Aires 1998/EXT 2002

(The mystery symbol is clear advantage to black)
I hope I got the position right.

Michael Yip

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Evaluation of Position

Hi Guys I have been looking at this position in the French and I would appreciate feedback: [after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.f4 Nc6 5.c3 Qb6 6.Nf3 Nh6 7.Bd3 Bd7 8.O-O] I am looking at castle here which sacs a pawn..

Sam

Michael's post in response to your question seems like a definitive answer. After 6...Nh6 7.Bd3 Bd7 8.0-0 cxd4 I was going to include the same (or similar) variations involving ...Ng4 that Michael has included.

If Michael's answer doesn't convince somehow, there is another possible problem with your line, Sam.

Instead of 6...Nh6, Minev in The French Defence: New and Forgotton Ideas (2nd edition) prefers 6...Bd7. He gives:

1) 6...Nh6 7.b3

(apparently Minev seems to consider this better than your 7.Bd3, which he doesn't give - Pacey)

7...cxd4 8.cxd4 Bb4+ 9.Kf2 Nf5

(here Watson analyses 9...Ng4+! leading to a big advantage for Black - Pacey)

10.Bb2 h5 (Konen-Haberditz, 1940 [-/+ Zlotnik])
11.Nc3!? with the idea 11...Bd7 (11...Ncxd4?? 12.Na4) 12.Na4 Qd8 13.a3 Be7 14.b4 unclear.

2) 6...Bd7

(! Minev; = Watson)

7.a3

(7.Bd3 would seem clearly bad here, as White won't be able to castle after Black accepts the d-pawn - Pacey)

7...Nh6 8.b4 cxd4 9.cxd4 Rc8 10.Bb2 Nf5 11.Qd3?

(The decisive mistake in a difficult position. Better defensive chances are offered by 11.Kf2 Minev)

11...Bxb4+ 12.axb4 Nxb4 13.Qd2 Rc2 14.Qd1 Ne3 0-1 McConnel-Morphy, New Orleans 1850.



While the idea of a quick f2-f4 in the Advance French strikes me as extravagent, sacrificing development and solidity while Black is attacking d4 (without considering all the concrete variations), you needn't give up on the idea of avoiding the main lines of the French with a Milner-Barry style Gambit. In fact why not reconsider the Milner-Barry Gambit itself, particularly if you don't face the French much and don't want to learn much theory?

After 4.c3

(instead of 4.f4?!)

4...Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6

(or...Bd7 first, which should transpose after Bd3)

6.Bd3 cxd4 7.cxd4 Bd7



you've reached the point of the Milner-Barry at which you can gambit a pawn by 8.0-0 and after 8...Nxd4 9.Nxd4

(9.Nbd2!? may not be so bad in spite of Watson dismissing it, along with the Milner-Barry as a whole)

9...Qxd4 White's best chance might actually be 10.Re1 (rather than 10.Nc3, which gives Black the extra possibility of 10...Qxe5) and now after 10...Ne7

(10...a6 11.Nc3 isn't a clear improvement for Black)

11.Nc3 a6 White can try 12.Qe2 (or 12.Ne2, as ECO gives), rather than falling into Watson's coverage of only 12.Be3 (or 12.Qf3 first).

[Michael Yip]

Re: Your diagram

Hi Kevin

May I ask how you got a diagram into your post? I wanted to do something similar but sadly I remain ignorant.

Michael

[Kevin Pacey]

Re: Evaluation of Position

Hi Michael

Chesstalk allows diagrams, using what I seem to recall is called 'FEN' notation (I once looked it up on the internet). Anyway, for example, you put:

{DIAGRAM}r3kbnr/pp1b1ppp/1qn1p3/3pP3/3P4/3B1N2/PP3PPP/RNBQK2R{/diagram}

to produce the position diagrammed in my previous post, if I haven't made any errors (NOTE: I have substituted "{" for "[" and "}" for "]" to avoid actually printing a diagram).

The position is given rank by rank, starting from Black's back rank and ending at White's back rank, the info for each rank seperated by "/". In case a rank is empty, put "8" (stands for rank being all empty squares). Likewise numbers other than 8 stand for empty squares on a rank, between, before or after pieces. Black pieces are lower case, White pieces are UPPER CASE. Use Preview Post to test if you've made a mistake in making your diagram(s). For example if the pieces appear wildly distributed you might have left out a square on a rank.

[Michael Yip]

Re:Possible diagram/image alternative to FEN?

To computer wise people:

I used chessbase to insert a diagram into a game's annotations then
1)exported output to textfile
2)chose HTML format
then generated an HTNL file and a little JPEG image file which is on my desktop

I have tried to 'insert image' when composing a post to get the little image into a post but get asked for a URL. I have tried to copy paste this into the required URL but no diagram appears

C:\Users\asus\Desktop\ChesstalkQ.htm

Need some assistance for the next step in the diagram breakthrough

Otherwise I will have to use FEN.

Michael

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Possible diagram/image alternative to FEN?

it needs a URL for the image, so you would have to upload it online somewhere, not just off your own hard drive.

The FEN diagram would work, wouldn't it?

[Michael Yip]

Re: Diagram from chessbase

Thanks Chris

I was trying to make a little 'improvement'

Mike