Saturday Blitz @CO results

**Hugh Brodie** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 10:37 AM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

Vlad wrote:

Impossible to run an 80 players 7dbl round swiss in three hours, so we had to cut down to 5 rounds.

The annual Quebec Open blitz tournament (sometimes with over 140 players) is over within 4 hours as an 8 double-round Swiss. Same timing - whether paired by computer or manually (maybe slightly faster manually). The only advantage about using a computer is that crosstables can be posted immediately.

**Paul Beckwith** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 10:40 AM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

David Lavin playing chess again; with a decent 7 points in the blitz.

Wonders never cease.

**Andrei Botez** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 12:09 PM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

Originally posted by Vlad Dobrich View Post

Impossible to run an 80 players 7dbl round swiss in three hours, so we had to cut down to 5 rounds. As it was we did not finish before midnight! Most but not all prizes were distributed then. Anyone with prize money still due can collect any Saturday at Mom's Cafe (see below)
The winners were:

1st & 2nd tie: Artiom Samsonkin, Bindi Cheng 8 1/2 - 1 1/2

Is it true that you apply 10.2 in the game between Artiom and Bindi?

B. Blitz
b.Article 10.2 and Appendix A.4.c do not apply.

Thanks
Andrei
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VOLCANO VAPORIZERS

**John Upper** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 03:37 PM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

Originally posted by Vlad Dobrich View Post

Impossible to run an 80 players 7dbl round swiss in three hours, so we had to cut down to 5 rounds.

No Vlad, that's not why it was cut to less than the advertised seven rounds.

**Vlad Dobrich** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 03:41 PM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

"If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim." FIDE laws of chess.

According to this, I am supposed to observe the game for a couple minutes to see if a player is trying to win "by normal means". I have been playing chess long enough to know that K & R vs K & R cannot be won by normal means! I do not need to observe the 'game' for several more minutes to know this. If the only road to victory is to pound the hell out of someone elses clock in order to flag the opponent, I call the game a draw.

**Vlad Dobrich** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 03:43 PM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

Originally posted by John Upper View Post

No Vlad, that's not why it was cut to less than the advertised seven rounds.

Explain your comment please.

**Andrei Botez** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 04:44 PM

FIDE rules

Originally posted by Vlad Dobrich View Post

"If the arbiter agrees the opponent is making no effort to win the game by normal means, or that it is not possible to win by normal means, then he shall declare the game drawn. Otherwise he shall postpone his decision or reject the claim." FIDE laws of chess.

According to this, I am supposed to observe the game for a couple minutes to see if a player is trying to win "by normal means". I have been playing chess long enough to know that K & R vs K & R cannot be won by normal means! I do not need to observe the 'game' for several more minutes to know this. If the only road to victory is to pound the hell out of someone elses clock in order to flag the opponent, I call the game a draw.

Hello Vlad,

I agree with you, but I believe the rule dows not apply in blitz (E.I. Laws of Chess - E.I.01B. Appendices B.3 b) and also in the games with increment.

Hopefully are some arbiters who can confirm or not if this is the case.

Andrei
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IOLITE VAPORIZOR

**Egidijus Zeromskis** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 04:55 PM

Re: FIDE rules

Originally posted by Andrei Botez View Post

I agree with you, but I believe the rule dows not apply in blitz (E.I. Laws of Chess - E.I.01B. Appendices B.3 b) and also in the games with increment.

Andrei, you are missing parts:

"B.2 Where there is adequate supervision of play, (one arbiter for one game) the Competition Rules and Appendix A.2 shall apply."

"B.3 Where supervision is inadequate the following shall apply:"

So at first we should decide "adequate" or "inadequate" :)

**Andrei Botez** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 05:55 PM

Re: FIDE rules

Originally posted by Egidijus Zeromskis View Post

Andrei, you are missing parts:

So at first we should decide "adequate" or "inadequate" :)

Hi Egidijus,

From posting:

I do not need to observe the 'game' for several more minutes to know this.

I can guess the part with:

[...]there is adequate supervision of play, (one arbiter for one game)

don't you?

Andrei
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Box vaporizer

**Vlad Dobrich** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 06:14 PM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

Andrei Botez:
Sir!
Whenever there is doubt as to what a ruling should be, I ask, "What is the sporting resolution?"
A case where a player is intent on winning by flagging the opponent I propose the following hypothetical situation:

You are directing your club blitz chess championship and a new-comer is paired with one of your junior hot-shot hustlers. The two get down to a rook and king each with the junior having two minutes on the clock while the new player has only one minute. Now junior starts pounding the clock (which you as the club organiser paid for) while the well dressed opponent makes careful moves so as not to hang his rook. Eventually, hot-shot wins on time. Mr well-dressed congratulates him and leaves, never to be seen again. Oh, did I fail to mention, Mr well-dressed happens to be the CEO of a major company in your town and would probably have had his company sponsor major tournaments in your area. Too bad about that! But your junior hot-shot hustler won his dollar fair and square, right?

This scenario will not happen in my club. Poor sportsmanship, like outright cheating earns the player ejection - right out the door!

**John Upper** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 08:31 PM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

Originally posted by Vlad Dobrich View Post

Explain your comment please.

OK.

The pairings for each round took a ridiculously --- embarrassingly? --- long time.

If you'd used a computer to do the pairings we'd have been able to have all 7 rounds. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a lot more entries between 7-8pm than you had expected, but you weren't prepared.

I was surprised that there weren't more complaints from the people who showed up that we didn't get two of the seven rounds we paid for. I suppose this was because after waiting around so long --- rd.2 didn't start until well after 9pm (AFAIR) --- most people had become so annoyed and then bored with waiting that (like me) they were resigned to not getting the games we'd expected.

**Fred McKim** · Wednesday, 21st July, 2010, 08:54 PM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

According to official blitz rules K & R vs K & R could probably go for 50 moves. At the 1988 World Bliz Championship we modifed the rules so that K & R (&X) vs K & R could be claimed a draw by either player or the superior side (if one) after 5 moves. We had other similar type positions. The players all had no problem with these alterations.

I have used these rules in all of the subsequent blitz events I've run (well over 100). Of course any alterations to the normal blitz rules should need to be outlined at the beginning of the event.

**Bindi Cheng** · Thursday, 22nd July, 2010, 12:54 AM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

Vlad, my opinion of you since Saturday did not change. You are still a joke and a mockery to chess in Canada. You say it will be 7 rounds and then you change to 5 by having such slow and dumb manual pairings. We probably wasted more time waiting you do your thing than we did playing blitz chess. By changing it to 5 you alter the play of potential prize winners. For example, I had played Samsonkin and Shiyam out of the top players and Shiyam had played me and Roman out of the top players. If it was 7 rounds, the winner would have actually played all the top competition and some players of the top standings wouldn't have gotten easier pairings. Second of all, in the blitz game between me and Samsonkin, did you fail to mention that before I blundered into rook and king versus rook and king I had a theoretical winning pawn and rook endgame versus rook that was going to transition into the lucena position if I had more time to think? Also of note was the fact that when Samsonkin claimed the draw by pleading his case to you, he had 5 seconds to my 28 seconds. Now I'm no blitz master but I'm assuming Samsonkin and me were playing a blitz game and flagging is allowed right? I guess if you don't want to get cheapoed in a game, play correspondence, you'll never lose on time.

Summary - please never host another blitz tournament, especially one at another Canadian Open and don't act like your club is so sacred that flagging is against the law there. It's nothing special.

**Hugh Siddeley** · Thursday, 22nd July, 2010, 12:23 PM

Re: Saturday Blitz @CO results

wow, that was kinda harsh Bindi :(

Being a tournament organizer is a thankless job and this sentiment has been reinforced over the past few weeks.

It's a shame you 'blundered' into a KR vs KR endgame but from what has been presented to me here on chesstalk I think a draw was the fair result. I mean let's say you were losing before the KR vs KR endgame, would you still try to win on time by moving your rook one square at a time on the side closest to the clock (if that's what you were doing, that IS the best strategy :D)? OK he had 5 seconds left when he appealed but how long were you guys banging on the clock for? Definitely heat of the moment stuff and that's understandable.

I guess that's why in blitz playoff nowadays they play 3 2 or something to prevent this kind of stuff from happening, an unfortunate situation. So do you agree you were trying to 'cheapo' him by making him lose on time? I have to admit that does seem a little unsporting... and apparently you did have more time on the clock than him so maybe you could have used those valuable seconds to transpose into the Lucena position, you've only got yourself to blame I'm afraid.

I know it's frustrating going from winning to drawing (or my specialty, going from winning to drawing to losing

) and I can't help but think this is why you were still trying to win despite the theoretically drawn position. Anyway congrats on coming tied for 1st!

Saturday Blitz @CO results

Saturday Blitz @CO results

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