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After Mark's day today, tomorrow it can be Thomas's day to shine. I believe that Thomas already has one GM norm (perhaps someone can confirm it) and after today's draw his live rating is 2500. In the olympiad a norm essentially counts as two norms so Thomas is very close to the title. Tomorrow he will likely face a lower rated Mongolian player with white (as long as Mark doesn't take a rest) and a win will pretty much guarantee the title for him. Even if he draws though he will still be very close.
In any case thats something to watch for.
Good luck Thomas, my similar wishes for Mark yesterday certainly didn't hurt him! :)
Re: IM Roussel-Roozmon is going for GM title tomorrow
Well, let's not get our hopes too high. The Mongolians can be very tough to beat. And it hardly matters. So long as Thomas stays active the norms will come. The level of his play has risen quite high, he's still quite young, and I'm certain he's already gained the 15 FIDE rating points necessary to put him over 2500. Once you reach that level the GM title is usually just a matter of time and opportunity. In any case, a wonderful performance thus far. Bonne chance!
Re: IM Roussel-Roozmon is going for GM title tomorrow
I was reading the FIDE site and it seems you have to have 9 games (in the Olympics) played to have a GM norm.
In a 9 or more game Olympiad performance, a GM norm counts as 20 games, while a GM performance is 13 games (I have no idea what the difference is).
So I think he needs one more game for the norm. You need a total of tournaments totalling 27 games, so I'm not sure what he has going into the Olympics.
Right now his Rao is 2443 (counting the 1st round guy at 2200) and his 75% score translates to 193 points to add on (2636). He needs a Rp of at least 2600.
So maybe someone can confirm if he needs the 9th game for a norm and then is that enough games (either 13 or 20) added to a possible previous norm.
I was reading the FIDE site and it seems you have to have 9 games (in the Olympics) played to have a GM norm.
In a 9 or more game Olympiad performance, a GM norm counts as 20 games, while a GM performance is 13 games (I have no idea what the difference is).
So I think he needs one more game for the norm. You need a total of tournaments totalling 27 games, so I'm not sure what he has going into the Olympics.
Right now his Rao is 2443 (counting the 1st round guy at 2200) and his 75% score translates to 193 points to add on (2636). He needs a Rp of at least 2600.
So maybe someone can confirm if he needs the 9th game for a norm and then is that enough games (either 13 or 20) added to a possible previous norm.
In the olympiad having a performance rating of 2600+ counts as a norm of 13 games (you still need to play at least 9 rounds), while a GM norm (meeting all requirements such as at least 3 GM opponents and at least half titled opponents) is a 20 game norm. The difference between the two is quite substantial, since a 13 game norm is typically the same as a 9 game norm for practical reasons, while a 20 game norm is pretty much the same as earning 2 norms. Thomas already has one GM norm from the 2007 Quebec Open. His rating went over 2500 in this tournament which is good enough, and he met all the norm requirements so now all he needs is to achieve the norm with a performance rating of over 2600.
In round 8 Thomas drew against a Mongolian opponent rated 2421 which complicates things a little bit. He currently has 6/8 and in the next round Canada is meeting the powerful 17th ranked Czech Republic whose board 2 is ViKtor Laznicka (2690). Viktor is playing very well and has a performance rating well over 2700 in this tournament, so it would be a very difficult game even though Thomas will have the white pieces and a draw will be good enough for the GM title.
Just out of curiousity, I decided to check what would happen if Canada played Thomas on board one where he would face GM Navara (2722). This would give Thomas an average opponent rating of 2474.22 (I am counting his first opponent as 2200 instead of 2010 for norm purposes as according to FIDE regulations). This would be just shy of 2474.5 which would be good enough for a GM norm of 6/9. On the other hand, it takes out potentially harmful aspect for the team as the captain would then have to decide whether to let Thomas have an easy norm but hurt the team as they would play without Mark, or field the best squad for such an important match.
Regardless, even if Thomas loses against Viktor Laznicka, he could still earn the title in rounds 10, 11.
Re: IM Roussel-Roozmon is going for GM title tomorrow
Yes. The match tomorrow will be the most difficult. Until today, Czech Rep had not lost to a player under 2650. If they field what appears to be their strongest line-up (leaving out 4th player), their average performance rating is about 2715.
If I was captain, I'd play both Mark and Thomas, trying to steer Thomas' game to a very early draw. Lazicka has been deadly with white, but not so much with black... perhaps they'll even give their World Class Board 1, Navara a rest and let Lazicka have white.
2-2 would be a huge success here (I think bigger than the Bulgaria match).
I just noticed that all of Artiom's games have been with white. I wonder if that was a pre-tournament plan, or if it "just happened that way" ?
In the olympiad having a performance rating of 2600+ counts as a norm of 13 games (you still need to play at least 9 rounds), while a GM norm (meeting all requirements such as at least 3 GM opponents and at least half titled opponents) is a 20 game norm. The difference between the two is quite substantial, since a 13 game norm is typically the same as a 9 game norm for practical reasons, while a 20 game norm is pretty much the same as earning 2 norms. Thomas already has one GM norm from the 2007 Quebec Open. His rating went over 2500 in this tournament which is good enough, and he met all the norm requirements so now all he needs is to achieve the norm with a performance rating of over 2600.
In round 8 Thomas drew against a Mongolian opponent rated 2421 which complicates things a little bit. He currently has 6/8 and in the next round Canada is meeting the powerful 17th ranked Czech Republic whose board 2 is ViKtor Laznicka (2690). Viktor is playing very well and has a performance rating well over 2700 in this tournament, so it would be a very difficult game even though Thomas will have the white pieces and a draw will be good enough for the GM title.
Just out of curiousity, I decided to check what would happen if Canada played Thomas on board one where he would face GM Navara (2722). This would give Thomas an average opponent rating of 2474.22 (I am counting his first opponent as 2200 instead of 2010 for norm purposes as according to FIDE regulations). This would be just shy of 2474.5 which would be good enough for a GM norm of 6/9. On the other hand, it takes out potentially harmful aspect for the team as the captain would then have to decide whether to let Thomas have an easy norm but hurt the team as they would play without Mark, or field the best squad for such an important match.
Regardless, even if Thomas loses against Viktor Laznicka, he could still earn the title in rounds 10, 11.
I hope it wasn't too confusing:)
In any case, good luck to Thomas and Canada!
Very instructive post. Another option is to sit down Thomas.
I believe that the captain's first priority is to aim for the best results for the team. Except maybe for the last round, he should not take into account norm opportunities.
Mark and Thomas have been playing 8 games in a row. If they are tired, the captain has to consider sitting one of them tomorrow (and the other next day). Hopefully they are not too tired and both can play tomorrow...
P.S. Noritsyn (4.5/6) and Samsokin (3/4) have been very successful in the bottom boards.
Last edited by Jean Sasseville; Wednesday, 29th September, 2010, 12:31 PM.
Re: IM Roussel-Roozmon is going for GM title tomorrow
Sitting would also be an option and have hime ready for rd 10, if he loses then a rest day and would have to win rd 11.....
I think playing him on Board one with Black, against Navara would be very risky. If he loses he would still probably have to win one of his last two games and we don't have a lot of choice in terms of what the pairings give us.
I still like taking W for Thomas on Board 2 tomorrow.
Re: IM Roussel-Roozmon is going for GM title tomorrow
Can someone please explain to me why it is not ridiculous to have games in a team tournament rated, and for norms and titles to be possible? The discussion above suggested possible options for the team captain as to what he might do not for the team, but for an individual, and at the possible expense of the team. There is a clear conflict of interests here, and it exists because individual ratings, norms and titles are available at a team tournament. Something does not make sense.
Re: IM Roussel-Roozmon is going for GM title tomorrow
As for ratings, check the bottom of the cross table and see how many countries send players without ratings. While the vast majority of these players are all under 2000 strnegth, a good number always come in at 2200 strnegth or so. It's all for the development of chess.
I suspect the number of GM norms and IM norms achieved each year is minimal. Most teams with a player in contention for a GM norm, probably don't have much left ot play for team wise.
I think our team has done everything it has set out to do so far. Very tenacious, only one team match loss. Good play against world class players.
I hardly think that trying to maximixe Thomas' chances for the GM norm is going ot hurt Canada. It's not like the old days, where you could lose your norm in the last round or two, after you had already achieved it.
If Thomas gets the norm tomorrow, it doesn't matter what he does the last two days: he can't lose it.
Re: IM Roussel-Roozmon is going for GM title tomorrow
From Yasser Seirawan's recent Chess Duels:
My first of ten Olympiad events convinced me that team events can produce some very uneven individual results which should not count for norms….While I do appreciate that, for many nations, Olympiads represent the best (perhaps the only) opportunity for title norms, there is something very wrong when colors can be so lopsided, packaged agreements for draws in all games can be made and players can choose whether or not to play opponents. These all pervert the notion of an individual norm. Perhaps “Olympiad norms” should count, but only half as much as “regular norms” from individual events. Team play is just a different kind of chess.
My first of ten Olympiad events convinced me that team events can produce some very uneven individual results which should not count for norms….While I do appreciate that, for many nations, Olympiads represent the best (perhaps the only) opportunity for title norms, there is something very wrong when colors can be so lopsided, packaged agreements for draws in all games can be made and players can choose whether or not to play opponents. These all pervert the notion of an individual norm. Perhaps “Olympiad norms” should count, but only half as much as “regular norms” from individual events. Team play is just a different kind of chess.
However, one could argue that a game-level result is a legitimate result - no more or less than any other game encounter, regardless of the outside situation.
I hardly think that trying to maximixe Thomas' chances for the GM norm is going ot hurt Canada. It's not like the old days, where you could lose your norm in the last round or two, after you had already achieved it.
Team results really matters only if your team is a medal contender. Otherwise individual successes should come first and hopefully what is best for Thomas' norm chance will be done. Whether a particular country finishes 18th or 24th or 45th does not matter terribly. But a GM norm is something special for a player about which everybody on the team will be happy about.
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