Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

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  • Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

    The following is a copy of a post I send to the CFC governor's forum. It outlines my reasons for supporting the Richmond Hill Team over Toronto. You may not understand it without a little context so let me give you a summary of the situation:

    There are two teams bidding for the CYCC, Toronto and Richmond Hill. The Toronto team is offering to hold the CYCC and the Canadian Open at the same time, while the Richmond Hill team is focused on just doing the CYCC as a single tournament.

    The problem facing the governors is that there are no other bids for the Canadian Open so some of them are worried if they don't support the Toronto team for the CYCC they may be left with no one organizing the Canadian Open. I think their concerns are quite valid...


    (post begins)

    I think it needs to be remembered that the two main goals of the CYCC are 1. to act as a fund raiser to send our juniors to the WYCC. And, 2. To provide a strong tournament where our juniors can hone their chess skills. These are a far higher priority than how good the hotel looks.

    Focusing on goal number 1, I have made a rough mental calculation of what it would cost to send our juniors to Brazil and it would be about 35 thousand dollars.

    It seems clear to me that neither bid attempts to raise this amount and that both of them have prioritized other things over that goal.

    That said and done, when I look at the numbers I am more confident in the Richmond Hill to raise monies in the 20 thousand dollar range than the Toronto bid.

    I think Toronto has committed themselves to success only if there is a high turnout and that is a formula that is too risky imho.

    Now lets look at goal number 2. Clearly, forcing our juniors to either play in two tournaments or to choose between them is less beneficial for their chess than the normal format, which is to have two separate tournaments.

    As far as the Canadian Open goes, I think it is very important that we put it aside and consider the goals of the CYCC in isolation and whether either of these bids achieve its intended goals.

    If the point of some is to say, well go with Toronto or there wont be a Canadian Open, my answer is - don't let yourself be bullied into compromising on our top juniors.

    Simply pick the bid you think is the best for the CYCC and we will work on a solution for the Canadian Open as a separate issue.

    These considerations combined with the fact the Toronto team did not answer the questions asked of them by the governors leads me to feel for the sake of our juniors I must put my support behind the Richmond Hill team.

    I'd like to thank both teams for their support of junior chess. People who know me know how sincere I am when I say that.

  • #2
    Re: Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

    Originally posted by Garvin Nunes View Post
    Focusing on goal number 1, I have made a rough mental calculation of what it would cost to send our juniors to Brazil and it would be about 35 thousand dollars.
    I wonder how $35,000 resulted. As far as I know, CFC is giving $1,000 to each category winner (8,10,12,14,16,18 - boys + girls), that is $12,000. You can add $2,000 for coach and you get to 14k.

    Andrei
    ________
    PROBLEMS WITH ZOLOFT
    Last edited by Andrei Botez; Monday, 9th May, 2011, 08:28 AM.

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    • #3
      Re: Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

      Originally posted by Andrei Botez View Post
      I wonder how $35,000 resulted. As far as I know, CFC is giving $1,000 to each category winner (8,10,12,14,16,18 - boys + girls), that is $12,000. You can add $2,000 for coach and you get to 14k.

      Andrei
      I assumed he was calculating the amount actually needed to send the team to Brazil, NOT how much the CFC is committed to grant the team.
      ...Mike Pence: the Lord of the fly.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

        I would also like to reflect the main points of an email that I sent to some of the CFC governors and requested it to be posted on the CFC governor's forum (which I believe they did).

        1) Combining CO and CYCC under the bid #2 structure will only

        - decrease participation for both CO and CYCC
        - substantially decrease the number of out-of-town CYCC players due to the extra financial burden, and likely turning CYCC into yet another OYCC.

        2) Financial Calculation

        David Cohen said on Chesstalk that "Combining it with the Canadian Open on the same days also saves the Canadian chess community the rent on a 4 day CYCC, about $4,000." Others already indicated that the decrease of participation in both events (thus less entrance fee collected) may already offset the $4000 saving.

        There is the more devastating effect in increasing all CYCC players' financial loss that is not taken into account. The calculation includes extra 3 days finacial bunden on accommodation, transportation, meal expenses & loss of income. And I quote from my email to the Governors:

        "Thus, the conservative estimation of total financial loss to the "Canadian chess community" which in my definition includes our junior players, will be $90,000. How do we justify of asking the junior players' family to spend an extra $90,000 to, may be, save CO $4,000."

        3) Suggestions

        a) Change the format of CO into partial double games day,

        b) Increase the entrance fee for CO,

        c) Held CYCC at the same location right before CO, this should increase the participation rate of CO and would likely lead to a better deal with the hotel with two events on hand.

        I hope that we could come up with a sturcture that is beneficial to both CO & CYCC. I would urge the 2 bidders to consider the suggestions, or may even working togather to resolve some of the issues.

        "I'd like to thank both teams for their support of junior chess. People who know me know how sincere I am when I say that." - ditto:).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

          Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post
          I assumed he was calculating the amount actually needed to send the team to Brazil, NOT how much the CFC is committed to grant the team.
          I am not sure:
          "It seems clear to me that neither bid attempts to raise this amount and that both of them have prioritized other things over that goal."

          The parents are paying what ever is not cover by the $1000. I don't see what has to do with CYCC organizers and their bids.
          ________
          Brunette pregnant
          Last edited by Andrei Botez; Monday, 9th May, 2011, 08:28 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: Why we should pay coach and delegate?

            I disagree with CYCC fees to pay delegate and coach, only this year CFC decide to pay, hope not paid yet. Next year WYCC in Brazil will cost much more for players to go there. If have more money , will only pay for players!
            Here we talk who guarantee players's 1000$, not for delegate and coach!

            Originally posted by Andrei Botez View Post
            I wonder how $35,000 resulted. As far as I know, CFC is giving $1,000 to each category winner (8,10,12,14,16,18 - boys + girls), that is $12,000. You can add $2,000 for coach and you get to 14k.

            Andrei

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why we should pay coach and delegate?

              Originally posted by Jin Daxin View Post
              I disagree with CYCC fees to pay delegate and coach, only this year CFC decide to pay, hope not paid yet. Next year WYCC in Brazil will cost much more for players to go there. If have more money , will only pay for players!
              Here we talk who guarantee players's 1000$, not for delegate and coach!
              Are you part of any biding groups?

              On expedia.ca for a round trip Toronto - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (RIO) in Oct 2011, I got $CA1,060.

              Andrei
              ________
              Lj
              Last edited by Andrei Botez; Monday, 9th May, 2011, 08:29 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why we should pay coach and delegate?

                On expedia.ca for a round trip Toronto - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (RIO) in Oct 2011, I got $CA1,060.

                My response:

                My search on expedia is even cheaper ($1030). Are you going to purchase it today for 2011 WYCC to get that price?

                I won't until I know the result of 2011 CYCC. That means July 2011.

                Can we find the same or similar price then? I doubt!

                I went to Brazil in August 2010 and the air cost was over $2500 from Toronto.

                Xuekun
                Originally posted by Andrei Botez View Post
                Are you part of any biding groups?

                On expedia.ca for a round trip Toronto - Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (RIO) in Oct 2011, I got $CA1,060.

                Andrei

                Comment


                • #9
                  Revised CYCC bid from Toronto

                  If the bidders are permitted to revise their bids, then the Toronto bid from CIC will be changed to a 4 day CYCC.

                  There will also be a further change, to be announced to the Governors tonight. So, please hold off on your support for one bid or the other until the bids are finalized.

                  Thanks,

                  David

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

                    I say share the wealth.
                    It is better to run a CYCC separate from the CDN OPEN.
                    Less problems on a whole.
                    But hey I'm no longer U 20 so the CYCC is not effecting me playing in the CDN Open

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Revised CYCC bid from Toronto

                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      Hi David:

                      You'd better check with Bob G on the idea of amending bids at the 11th hour. I don't know what position the executive are taking on that and whether they are going to allow it.

                      The voting is to start tomorrow according to the original posting of the bids for debate and vote.

                      Bob

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                      • #12
                        Re: Revised bid

                        Bob A.,

                        CIC is submitting a revised bid, which gives the CFC everything it asks for. If the CFC ignores it, that's its business.

                        David

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                        • #13
                          Re: Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

                          The deadline posted by Bob G was "Completed bid - Nov 19th", it's already ambiguous whether the deadline is before Nov 19th or before the end of Nov 19th. If David's update was submitted before the deadline, I don't see why it cannot be accepted.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            " Late " Revision of Toronto Bid

                            Hi Michael:

                            In the original post by President Bob Gillanders on Nov. 11, he said:

                            " We will be calling for a vote on Nov 19th. "

                            I interpret that to mean 12:00 AM Friday, Nov. 19. So as I interpret it, the voting period has already started, and the Toronto Bid is trying to submit a " revised " bid DURING the voting period - this would be very unusual to accept I would think. Votes have already been cast perhaps on the bids as originally submitted, and were what was to be voted on as of 12:00 AM Today.

                            I do not know if the " revised " bid has even yet been filed with the Chairperson/President.

                            And is there any issue of " fairness " here to the Richmond Hill bid??

                            But we will need to await a formal ruling on this issue of " late " revision, from the Chair of the Governors' Meeting, President Bob Gillanders.

                            Bob
                            Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Friday, 19th November, 2010, 01:53 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Why I Am Supporting Richmond Hill Team For CYCC Hosts

                              Bob A.,

                              I was referring to Bob G.'s posting on Oct. 21th:

                              Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
                              The CFC has now received two bids for our 2011 championship tournaments. They are:

                              1. Richmond Hill - CYCC 2011 - July 6-9, 2011
                              Chief Organizer: Anna Jin, CFC Women's Coordinator

                              2. Toronto - Canadian Open 2011 - July 9-17, 2011
                              Toronto - CYCC 2011 - July 9-15, 2011
                              Chief Organizer: Ted Winick, President, Chess Institute of Canada

                              Note: The Toronto bid is contingent on both bids being accepted.

                              The vetting process will now begin on these 2 bids. We are accepting new bids but with the following deadlines.

                              "Notice of intent" to bid - 2 weeks (Nov 4th)
                              Completed bid - Nov 19th

                              These deadline apply to Canadian Open and CYCC. All other events, ASAP please.
                              I didn't see his Nov. 11th posting, still searching for it. If he said that, then it is of course up to CFC Governors' decision on how to handle late bids.

                              I am not leaning towards either bid, I support whichever bid that is most beneficial to the chess community (including junior players). Just want the biding process to be fair.

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