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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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For all it's worth, as an idea:
Offer to give volunteer hours to high school students. Volunteer hours seem mandatory in Ontario High School curriculum. Not sure how it works in other provinces.
We've had a couple of helpers at Hart House tournament, though not entering games.
The Scarborough Chess Club requires all players to submit a copy of their games - i.e. close to 100 scoresheets every week. (they have one-game-a-week events from September to June).
In the meantime, I would like to thank Kai Gauer for making the Post-Secondary games available, to Micah Hughey for sending me all the games from the (ongoing) Edmonton CC championship, the Manitoba Chess Association for regular posting of games from the Winnipeg CC, and the regular postings on the Quebec City board of games from the Montcalm, Charlesbourg, and Ste-Foy clubs.
Last edited by Hugh Brodie; Wednesday, 19th January, 2011, 12:15 AM.
The number of games submitted per week is really more like 35-40. We do have 90 player swisses ( = potentially 45 games or 90 score sheets - one from each player ), but unfortunately, though the policy on handing in games is mandatory, not all members comply ( some forget, some dislke the policy, a few are not interested in the new technology, etc. ). So some games don't get handed in at all; sometimes only one party hands it in, and then come all the entry problems of misrecording, illegibility, time scrambles with stopped recording, etc. - with only one sheet to refer to, the game sometimes doesn't make it into the database. And even with both sheets, we sometimes can't get a game or two.
But we do have over 3000 games in the database now - all new members are given a copy. It's a great historical record. And for the club championship top section, which is a round-robin with known advance pairings, it is a great preparation tool.
It's a bit of work collecting the games, the carbon score sheets are more expensive, and it is a labour of love to enter them each and every week by a few dedicated club volunteers. But SCC feels it has been well worth the effort. And it may be a contributing factor to our good member retention rate, and the general steady climb in membership over the last few years we've had it. We went over 100 members about a year ago, and next we expect to go over 100 players in our regular Thursday night swiss.
At the Canadian Open in Edmonton (2009), it was mandatory for everyone to hand in a signed scoresheet. In addition to having them for entering the games into a database (Tony F. - we're still waiting), the TD could verify the results with what was marked (or not marked) on the result sheets.
(the USCF charges $6.95 per 100 NCR sheets (less in larger quantities); the CFC charges $4.50 for 100 regular scoresheets; can't find their price for NCR. the FQE charges $6.25/100 non-NCR; $12/100 NCR).
But we do have over 3000 games in the database now - all new members are given a copy. It's a great historical record. And for the club championship top section, which is a round-robin with known advance pairings, it is a great preparation tool.
It's a bit of work collecting the games, the carbon score sheets are more expensive, and it is a labour of love to enter them each and every week by a few dedicated club volunteers.
That is how you find dedicated volunteers: by not being afraid to ask them to contribute, first small things then eventually bigger things. That is how you make people feel involved, appreciated and useful. And that is the way to make sure that when you quit, things will continue to work.
But this applies only to volunteer organisations. Few people will actually work for free for someone who is actually trying to make a buck for himself.
Hugh, thank you for your apology, and I apologize for reacting as strongly as I did to your complaint/suggestion post. Being away from home all weekend had caused some friction on the home front, and felt like I had been burning the candle at both ends.
Jean, yes, I was in agreement with you at the time, and I still am. However, that does not change my bandwidth realities, nor my prime responsibilities to the players, and their families, participating in my events. I appreciate your honest feedback, but I feel that it is not fair to say that nothing has changed since then. The best example is how John Upper slips carbon scoresheets onto the top boards, collects them, and writes articles about some of the games. I also understand that you, Hugh, and of course many others, would prefer to see many more games captured. Would you agree with this summary?
Hoping both of you agree with my summary, how can we improve upon it? First of all, at this time, I feel that I could only handle a relatively streamlined implementation. Second, I buy my scoresheets extremely inexpensively from Chess&Math, usually over 1000 at a time, and I need to control that expense (because I need to control all expenses, LOL). Third, I cannot speak for John here, as he does the games he does because that is what is fulfilling for him. People appreciate his articles, but I am uncomfortable twisting his arm to do 5 times as many boards. He owns prepping and doing his articles, and so wouldn't it be up to him, or someone else, to step forward and expand his initiative?
How about this then? Would anyone be interested in donating carbon scoresheets for my events? As some players write in their personal scorebooks, I am estimating at most 250 for the Ottawa Spring Open. If someone can donate them, then I can commit to only offering carbon scoresheets at the front of the playing area, and to providing a box for players to leave their scoresheet copies. Then would someone be willing to get to Hugh, all of the scoresheet copies that are turned in? Another option Hugh, would be to mail me blank carbon scoresheets, and I would mail you back all of the returned copies.
I respect both Hugh and Jean tremendously, as they both know a heck of a lot more than I do about chess, both on and off the board. Therefore, I am genuinely interested in trying the above idea, but only if you think it is a winner, without further concern. If you do have more input, please feel free. I only want to make a successful change! ;)
I apologize for my ranting, and having been involved in the organizing and directing of many tournament I know how you feel.
For any tournament - putting NCR scoresheets just on the top 5 boards would cost less than a dollar a round. Just collect them, and enter them at your/someone's/(even my) leisure. I have a stack of scoresheets and bulletins from the FQE - some 20-25 years old - that I am still entering. Otherwise - these games are gone forever - most players just throw their scoresheets away. Think of someone wanting to write a book on Sambuev's chess career, and finding no games against Ontario's best players. There are many collectors of GM games (and others) around the world, who refer to my CanBase website regularly.
ooops, after writing my post below, I see now that you are only asking for the top 5 boards, and John Upper is already collecting those! John, when you enter these games, would you send them to Hugh, so that he can include them in his super-database?! :)
Hi John, I didn't get the chance before to thank you for your support. I've been thinking a lot about this, and I think I have constructed in my mind, a proposal that would appeal to Hugh and Jean, and most everyone else, and shouldn't cost me too much in time, effort, and money. I will post it in a separate thread in a few minutes. By the way, most people already onsite will help when asked, with the majority of those helpers being very appreciative parents. In the defence of most players, they understandably do not know about all the work that occurs in setting up, overnight between rounds, cleaning up, etc.
What really helps is when someone completely owns a task, no matter how small it is. For example, sometimes in the past, someone has stepped forward to own the skittles room. They don't ask me for the key, nor how to organize the room, nor anything! They show up sometime before the 1st round, completely set up the room with at least a dozen boards and sets, and after the last round, they pack everything up perfectly. That kind of initiative ownership really enables me to focus and floaters, pairings, etc.
The other thing that I want to say here is that despite some misgivings expressed in this thread about my events, that more players and parents than ever before, took the time to heartily thank me this weekend. Without sounding too corny, it is hard to put into words just how much that means to me, especially from players around my age and around my rating level. I really am grateful for the appreciation that is sent my way.
Anyway, back to the burning issue of this thread, I will be starting another thread, and look forward to input from key people like yourself John. Thanks again, and best regards.
At the Canadian Open in Edmonton (2009), it was mandatory for everyone to hand in a signed scoresheet. In addition to having them for entering the games into a database (Tony F. - we're still waiting), the TD could verify the results with what was marked (or not marked) on the result sheets.
(the USCF charges $6.95 per 100 NCR sheets (less in larger quantities); the CFC charges $4.50 for 100 regular scoresheets; can't find their price for NCR. the FQE charges $6.25/100 non-NCR; $12/100 NCR).
Hi Hugh,
My apologies for the long wait for the Canadian Open book. I make no excuses. The good news is that the book will be available in February. Thanks for your help on game entry.
Regarding scoresheets, I thought that if you were running a FIDE rated event, each player had to hand in a scoresheet.
I can't seem to find anything on the FIDE site that requires all players to hand in a scoresheet. If such a rule exists, I would understand why. FIDE may want to investigate a "suspicious" tournament, and may demand the scoresheets (if not already doctored in advance) as evidence. The closest rule I found was (under "Laws of Chess"):
"8.7
At the conclusion of the game both players shall sign both scoresheets, indicating the result of the game. Even if incorrect, this result shall stand, unless the arbiter decides otherwise."
Why would both scoresheets be signed unless one copy was to be handed in? Otherwise - one or both players could conveniently "lose" their scoresheet if the result was challenged.
If we followed this rule to the letter - scoresheets would have to be handed in whether or not the tournament was FIDE-rated - unless a "house rule" specified otherwise (similar to the zero-minutes-late forfeit rule)..
I can't seem to find anything on the FIDE site that requires all players to hand in a scoresheet. If such a rule exists, I would understand why. FIDE may want to investigate a "suspicious" tournament, and may demand the scoresheets (if not already doctored in advance) as evidence. The closest rule I found was (under "Laws of Chess"):
"8.7
At the conclusion of the game both players shall sign both scoresheets, indicating the result of the game. Even if incorrect, this result shall stand, unless the arbiter decides otherwise."
Why would both scoresheets be signed unless one copy was to be handed in? Otherwise - one or both players could conveniently "lose" their scoresheet if the result was challenged.
If we followed this rule to the letter - scoresheets would have to be handed in whether or not the tournament was FIDE-rated - unless a "house rule" specified otherwise (similar to the zero-minutes-late forfeit rule)..
"Both players shall sign both scoresheets" seems to mean each player signs both scoresheets. That leaves each player with their own scoresheet signed by both players. Which player then hands in (and loses) his scoresheet?? That could leave quite a mess or a dispute (YOU copy yours and hand it in...)
Carbonless duplicates would seem to be the most sensible approach with each player handing in the copy (with copies of the signatures too of course).
All the static over the question of recording scores has obscured the fundamental fact that Aris has, yet again, run a really superb tournament. At the beginning of the last round, on a motion from Bill Doubleday, there was a resounding round of universal applause for our organizer extraordinaire.
Given the prickly nature of many chess players (oui, pas seulement toi mon cher Jean) it is a notable feat to run such a high class event with few if any legitimate (or even illegitimate) gripes.
As to the scoresheet issue, Hugh,l as the keeper of the game history of Canadian chess, has made a good point. I will have a private word with Aris and offer a plan to ensure that the top section have carbon scoresheets for the next event and hand them in at the end (as per the Canadian Open in Edmonton, thanks in part to a healthy provincial grant). We will then remit them to the indefatigable Hugh Brodie for his tender loving care, apart from those that Ottawa's chief scribe, John Upper, appropriates for his analysis and publication.
All the static over the question of recording scores has obscured the fundamental fact that Aris has, yet again, run a really superb tournament. At the beginning of the last round, on a motion from Bill Doubleday, there was a resounding round of universal applause for our organizer extraordinaire.
Given the prickly nature of many chess players (oui, pas seulement toi mon cher Jean) it is a notable feat to run such a high class event with few if any legitimate (or even illegitimate) gripes.
As to the scoresheet issue, Hugh,l as the keeper of the game history of Canadian chess, has made a good point. I will have a private word with Aris and offer a plan to ensure that the top section have carbon scoresheets for the next event and hand them in at the end (as per the Canadian Open in Edmonton, thanks in part to a healthy provincial grant). We will then remit them to the indefatigable Hugh Brodie for his tender loving care, apart from those that Ottawa's chief scribe, John Upper, appropriates for his analysis and publication.
Gordon, thank you for the kind words. You, Bill, et al, are great to be Organizer/TD for!
And as usual, you keep the calmest temperament, especially amongst us chess folk! ;)
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