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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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In women's beach volleyball the dress (undress?) code required is to play in very small bikinis. Dress code for corporate executives, bodyguards and mafia gunmen ? Suits and ties! Chess needs no such codes.
Why is it that the minor local masters well down on the FIDE top ratings lists seem to object so strenuously while the world's top 100 don't; such as all time greats like Fischer and Gligoric and Short and Kasparov and Karpov etc. When the world champion starts playing tournaments dressed any old way then maybe there would be a case made for the Hebert school of low couture.
This is your kind of pairing not mine! What else can you imagine to "object" ?
Would you play chess standing on your head or move the pieces with your toes if a sponsor demanded it ? There are reasonable things a sponsor can ask for his money. Demanding people to play dress up in suits and ties at their own expenses and discomfort is not one of them.
If you don't think this is a fair pairing, I don't understand why. You have clearly said many many times that there is insufficient sponsorship in chess, and you have clearly said (including in this post) that you have limits on what you are willing to do to appease a sponsor.
To answer your second question - no I wouldn't. But I wouldn't expect the Upside Down Toe Empowerment company to sponsor my chess tourney either.
Unfortunately (and this is the crux of our long standing disagreement), it is not up to the recipient of the sponsorship to determine what is and is not reasonable. If you take the money, you fulfil your responsibility. If you don't want to accept these obligations (and this is 100% absolutely fine), then you accept the tradeoff that you don't receive the sponsorship.
From my perspective, I'm perfectly happy to have zero sponsorship in chess, because it removes from me any obligation to fulfil any sort of responsibility other than to enjoy myself.
Why is it that the minor local masters well down on the FIDE top ratings lists seem to object so strenuously while the world's top 100 don't; such as all time greats like Fischer and Gligoric and Short and Kasparov and Karpov etc. When the world champion starts playing tournaments dressed any old way then maybe there would be a case made for the Hebert school of low couture.
I think it's perfectly explainable; it's one thing for CIBC or whatever to offer 10K to a tournament of 50 people - essentially each player is being offered $200 to surrender some personal choice, and this is insufficient to do so. I suspect if CIBC came in and said we will put $250,000 into the Cdn Closed but we want suits and ties, it would be gladly taken up by the players. It's a simple tradeoff - money for freedom, and how much freedom you'll give up depends on how much money you get.
I think it's perfectly explainable; it's one thing for CIBC or whatever to offer 10K to a tournament of 50 people - essentially each player is being offered $200 to surrender some personal choice, and this is insufficient to do so. I suspect if CIBC came in and said we will put $250,000 into the Cdn Closed but we want suits and ties, it would be gladly taken up by the players. It's a simple tradeoff - money for freedom, and how much freedom you'll give up depends on how much money you get.
Absolutely. Most wage slaves sell their freedoms way too cheaply, imo.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Mr Obvious says that it wouldn't be at their own expense if sponsors came forward with considerably enhanced prize funds.
Equally obvious is that Jean was implying that the players would have to pay for their own suits and ties etc. if the requirement was vague enough to insist on "suit and ties/dresses). I don't think anyone is imagining both a dress code and sponsor-paid clothes (except perhaps a shirt with a logo, ala Carlsen or Anand...)
If the sponsor gave the top players a logo golf shirt (for example) and those shirts were utilized, perhaps that would be the best compromise?
... but when a person who knows something about the game doesn't really want to sponsor, a dress code become a handy reason.
Quite right. I would say that even someone who knows nothing about the game should quickly understand that it is not about suits and ties. But it is a well known fact that prospective buyers (in this case sponsors) often hide their true objections (ex: too pricy) behind faked but more convenient ones (ex: I have to talk to my wife). The challenge is to find out what the real objection is and come up with a good answer.
Equally obvious is that Jean was implying that the players would have to pay for their own suits and ties etc. if the requirement was vague enough to insist on "suit and ties/dresses). I don't think anyone is imagining both a dress code and sponsor-paid clothes (except perhaps a shirt with a logo, ala Carlsen or Anand...)
If the sponsor gave the top players a logo golf shirt (for example) and those shirts were utilized, perhaps that would be the best compromise?
Yes and curlers have to pay for their own brooms and shoes and team unifoms, and equestrians have to pay for their own horses and riding outfits... both of which sports receive way more sponsorship than chess ever will. Sometimes you have to invest a little in yourself and the sport to get something; like the elite of chess do.
Speaking of "showering" ... the one evening I visited the recent Canadian Open in Toronto, the first thing I noticed on entering the playing hall was the rather obvious stench of body odour.
Obviously, not all players or spectators were contributing to that effect, but it seemed to me that a LOT of them must have been!
When I was chatting with Aris, I mentioned that the air conditioning seemed to be not up to the task and he said it was a challenge at the start of a round with everyone in the same room.
Maybe the prizes should include some antiperspirant? There is a sponsorship opportunity!!
Perhaps on the flyer needs to have an announcement of a dress code: business casual or semi-formal or dress neatly. Although I enjoy seeing chess t-shirts.
Does an organizer give a warning or forfeit those who arrive sweating from the heat? (Bicycle rider or no A/C at home?) Have them play their moves from another room? Does the organizers have an obligation to provide clothes for those who arrive improperly dressed and have shower/change rooms like athletes have, delay the game to have time to shower in one of the hotel rooms?
I'm easily disturbed by the smells and sounds of eating in the tournament hall and other hygiene issues like nose picking then touching a piece. And do we need to post a sign in the washrooms to wash your hands before touching pieces? Also no farting allowed in the tournament hall, 3 times in a game is a forfeit.
I'm easily disturbed by the smells and sounds of eating in the tournament hall and other hygiene issues like nose picking then touching a piece. And do we need to post a sign in the washrooms to wash your hands before touching pieces? Also no farting allowed in the tournament hall, 3 times in a game is a forfeit.
How do you prove who the guilty party is in the case of silent but deadly types? Will there be a new FIDE rule of he who smelled it dealt it added to 12.3 or would this just be an application of 12.6 if there is any noise at all?
How do you prove who the guilty party is in the case of silent but deadly types? Will there be a new FIDE rule of he who smelled it dealt it added to 12.3 or would this just be an application of 12.6 if there is any noise at all?
On behalf of Bobby Fischer, here are his thoughts on the dress code topic,
thanks to John Chidley-Hill who excerpted the following from an interview
published circa 1961.
RE: Manners of chess players causing prospective patrons to be repelled: RJF: Its the fault of the chess players themselves. I don't know what they
used to be, but now they're not the most gentlemanly group. When it was
a game played by aristocrats it had more, like you know, dignity to it.
When they used to have the clubs, like no women were allowed and
everybody went in dressed in a suit, a tie, like gentlemen, you know.
Now kids come running in in their sneakers - even in the best chess club
- and they got women in there. It's a social place and people are making
noise, its a madhouse!
RE: Wardrobe: RJF: Yeah, I used to dress badly until I was about sixteen. But people
just didn't seem to have enough respect for me, you know. And I didn't
like that, so I decided I'd have to show them they weren't any better
than me, you know? So I decided to dress up.
I have my shoes made to order, my shirts, everything. I like to dress classy.
I have seventeen suits now, all hand tailored.
The social aspect of chess is just as important as other aspects and probably critical for retaining players in the long run. Women participating in chess is a good thing. In our Friday night chess club lecture series about half the students are girls. On many nights the girls outnumber the boys.
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