Excellent Point from David Lavin

[Tom O'Donnell]

From the CFC forum:

"David Lavin
CFC President
International Arbiter Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 74

Chess Clubs

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The first step is getting people away from their on-line chess fix isn't a CFC rated tournament, its a club. After all, most of the on-line activity is around blitz. The leap from 5-minute on-line to 5-6 games over a weekend is huge. The leap from 5minute on-line to 5-minute OTB is small.

In the glory days of the Toronto Chess Club we'd have 50-60 people out every Saturday for the blitz tournament, sometimes even more. Only about 25% played in CFC rated tournaments. The same held true for the weekday tournaments as well."

Perhaps it is just a local phenomenon here in the Ottawa area, but to me chess clubs seem to have gone from places people hung at out to talk chess, analyse games and play casual games, to places where people play tournaments. To me, this isn't a good thing.

By making club chess so serious, there isn't a gradual way to introduce players into the OTB tournament scene. Ottawa's RA Club seems to have finally recognized this by having lessons for newbie adults. Hopefully this trend will continue.

[Bob Armstrong]

Chess Clubs and Casual Play

I also think David's point is important. Clubs encouraging casual play is a start to attracting people to CFC-rated tournaments ( and is promoting chess generally as a " social " activity ).

Scarborough CC has no casual chess, unfortunately. But we have problems re this. We have no space. Our CFC-rated Thursday night tournaments take up all available tables now. And we are only open the one evening a week.

Also, there is a difficulty getting casual play going at a tournament club. Casual players are hesitant to come out for fear there will be no other players there for casual chess, or at least only a couple of players.

But the day may be coming when SCC will have to move to larger premises, if we keep growing the way we are. Then it will be good to make casual chess a new priority.

Bob

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Chess Clubs and Casual Play

I also think David's point is important. Clubs encouraging casual play is a start to attracting people to CFC-rated tournaments ( and is promoting chess generally as a " social " activity ).

Scarborough CC has no casual chess, unfortunately. But we have problems re this. We have no space. Our CFC-rated Thursday night tournaments take up all available tables now. And we are only open the one evening a week.

Also, there is a difficulty getting casual play going at a tournament club. Casual players are hesitant to come out for fear there will be no other players there for casual chess, or at least only a couple of players.

The Scarborough club used to be Tuesday and Sunday as I recall. Tuesday was tournament and Sunday was casual and speed chess. Sometimes on Tuesdays one of the guys would get something like Kriegspiel going for those who didn't have a game.

The posted capacity of the club for fire regulations was over 100 but I don't recall how many over that number. Mabye around 150 people.

It seems Lavin identified a problem but gives no solution. He's supposed to bring us solutions and not problems. :) I've been meaning to write something about the lack of "community" in chess, as compared to what it used to be, but haven't got around to it. I don't know if people would know what I was writing about. Maybe some old timers who write here disagree with me and think there is still "community" surrounding Canadian chess or that it never existed.

[Alan Baljeu]

Re: Excellent Point from David Lavin

Our club is "just show up and play", and it's 95% blitz. We're not bursting at the seams though, so something else is needed.

[John Coleman]

Chess club activities

Club chess in Windsor has always been 95% blitz. A few attempts to have slower chess ran into the noise problem; we would need two rooms. Even at our larger sites (Teutonia and YMCA) attempts to have tournaments were not very successful; blitz kills slow chess.

A few years ago, I asked Fred Lindsay, an excellent organiser in Michigan, how to get club members to play serious chess. I was surprised at his answer: the chess club is for blitz, talk, analysis, etc. If you want to play seriously, you have to go to a (weekend) tournament.

[Garland Best]

Re: Excellent Point from David Lavin

I think it's a case of brainstorming for ideas.

As Tom mentioned, the RA chess club starting offering lessons for adults. The class is small, only 6 people, but it's 6 more members. Plus it gave us an opening to also provide casual chess play for other people who want to show up. As a result we get 12-18 players on weekends now versus zero last year. So it's one idea that is working, at least so far.

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Chess club activities

Club chess in Windsor has always been 95% blitz. A few attempts to have slower chess ran into the noise problem; we would need two rooms. Even at our larger sites (Teutonia and YMCA) attempts to have tournaments were not very successful; blitz kills slow chess.

A few years ago, I asked Fred Lindsay, an excellent organiser in Michigan, how to get club members to play serious chess. I was surprised at his answer: the chess club is for blitz, talk, analysis, etc. If you want to play seriously, you have to go to a (weekend) tournament.

Could anybody else share their experience running a chess club these days? I had good times being a member but not an organizer

I am moving forward with the start of a casual chess club. Probably we'll start this Monday (the 'only' weekday when the place is silent and free). However, players will need bring their own chess sets, boards, clocks. Maybe in future we'll run fundrising tournaments to have own sets and clocks :) Anybody willing to donate?
I think that a location is good too (near Drewry and Young, Willowdale, North York, Toronto, ON, the TTC 125 bus runs nearby every 15 min (the bus starts at the Finch Subway station), and it has a large free parking lot. Details will follow when the final decision is made (probably this Sunday.)

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: Excellent Point from David Lavin

I think it's a case of brainstorming for ideas.

As Tom mentioned, the RA chess club starting offering lessons for adults. The class is small, only 6 people, but it's 6 more members. Plus it gave us an opening to also provide casual chess play for other people who want to show up. As a result we get 12-18 players on weekends now versus zero last year. So it's one idea that is working, at least so far.

To add to what Garland said (and he deserves GREAT credit for driving the adult chess lesson initiative!), it seems to me that variety helps. We are trying now to have rated Regular on Thursday evenings (some months a Swiss, some months a round-robin, some weeks Active, occasional Fischer nights, some exciting-opening theme-nights, even a blitz championship night) and then Sunday afternoons (mostly casual chess, the adult chess lessons, a rated Active every couple of months). I might be wrong, but I get the impression that we are doing better this year (more obvious on Sunday afternoons) simply because of the variety of activities. Returning players are individually attracted by one (maybe more) or the activities, and then they return for a different type of activity, and it builds from there. At the last Sunday afternoon rated Active (3 rounds), I thought it was really cool that even though a GM happened to drop in for the rated Active, there were players that just wanted to play casual chess amongst themselves.

[John Brown]

Re: Excellent Point from David Lavin

A chess club is only as good as it's volunteers. If you have Great and enthusiastic volunteers then you get fantastic results.

If you start a chess club the most important thing is to attract members to the club not members to the CFC.
Once your chess club has grown and members want a little change then you can introduce OTB long games and CFC rating ideas.
Remember the chess clubs are all evening /weekend clubs and they are places for people to get away from the stress of every day life.
Tournament chess should be at tournaments and club chess should be at clubs.
If you introduce too much serious chess at the club levels then you scare away the casual players who just want an evening out.
There is only one happy medium and that is to have a club night that is enjoyable to all and a club night or weekend that is available for series chess.
In other words you need volunteers that want to commit to being available two times a week at every club or have two rooms available.

I'm not sure everyone wants to join the CFC but chess players want to play chess. So at the club level offer chess not CFC

[David Lavin]

Re: Excellent Point from David Lavin

Thank you for the compliment.

However, I would appreciate it if my words of wisdom, or lack thereof, were discussed, debated, and/or eviscerated on the forum on which they were posted.

If anyone wants my input on how to run a chess club -- which I did for many years -- you know where to find me.

David

[Ken Kurkowski]

Re: Excellent Point from David Lavin

As a member of the Toronto chess scene for the past 30 years, let me share some of my experiences re local club activity over the years:
The first club I joined here was the old Toronto Chess Club. During its peak years in the late 70s the club was open every night of the week, plus Saturday and Sunday afternoons. Saturday afternoon featured the 7 double round blitz tournament which, as David Lavin points out, attracted as many as 50-60 players in its heyday. They included not only blitz specialists but many of the top local tournament players (Day, Nickoloff etc.). One or two evenings were devoted to one-game-a week CFC rated "rating section" tournaments, where players were pitted against others of similar strength. Two other nights were for 15-minute speed chess (on of them restricted to novices rated below 1400 or so). Meanwhile there were usually a few guys playing casual blitz or poker, or just kibitzing around.
The other major club in these parts was (and is!) Scarborough Chess Club. This club has always focussed mainly on classic rated tournaments, both Swisses and Round-Robins. However, in its larger premises of the past, there were usually a couple of guys playing blitz or "contra" chess. Occasionally they would get into animated "discussions" that distracted the tournament players! Occasionally the club hosted simuls or lectures by strong players such as Kevin Spraggett.
Hart House Chess Club is different (or at least was when I played there eons ago). Despite a very high rated membership, the main activity at the club was casual chess, especially double-chess (now more commonly known as bughouse). The club did organize a number of big weekend events, plus hosting a number of Toronto and Canadian Closeds. It also hosted simuls by notables such as Keres and Botvinnik.
To sum up, I believe that rated tournament chess DOES belong in the clubs. For many players who do not have the time to play in weekend events, the game-a-week format is their only opportunity for serious play. At the same time, clubs should strive to offer (as much as time, space and volunteer availability allow) a wide variety of chess activities.

[Hugh Brodie]

Re: Excellent Point from David Lavin

From a member of the Montreal chess scene since the late 1960's -

I have never experienced a "traditional" chess club in Montreal - i.e. a club with an elected executive and a regular program of events. There have always been one (or more - usually self-appointed) people looking after things - but not doing much organizing.

The Alekhine chess club (1969-79) was where the Spraggetts, Barbeaus, and Léveillés started their chess careers. Nothing organized there except weekly blitz tournaments (it was usually open Friday nights, and all day Saturday and/or Sunday), and an occasional active or "slow" event. Blitzes could attract up to 50 players. Lots of money games - Kevin always had a steady stream of customers. The site was provided for free (in the quarters of the "Quebec-USSR Cultural Society") - and the regulars never paid any kind of membership fee.

The Lakeshore chess club (dating back to at least the late 1940's) served (and still does) the western part of Montreal. Again - no elected executive - just a couple of volunteers (of which I was one for a while) to keep things running. I tried organizing regular events - but it was hopeless, since people couldn't come every week; some adults didn't want to play with kids, etc. Attendance/membership fluctuated over the years from 15-20 (where it is now) to close to 100.

The Chess Specialist (~1976-2002) was a chess store which had extra space for chess events. Fairly regular events - but it was designed to attract passers-by who wanted to play. It was absorbed by the Montreal Chess Club (which more or less exists in name only - the name has been around since 1844) which operates out of Larry's Chess and Match building.

Small regional clubs have come and gone over the years.

Cafes have dominated Montreal chess over the years: Cafe Morphy (early 1970's), Cafe Quebechecs (renamed to Cafe En Passant)(1972-81) - which was partly owned by GM Peter Biyiasis for a time, Cafe le Backgammon (1980's), Le Jardin de Caissa (mid-1980's), another Cafe En Passant (late 1980's), Le Gammon (1991-2005), and the current favourite Cafe Pi. Most could/can hold about 50 players, but were/are not designed for serious games. Even trying to hold blitz tournaments often occupied tables wanted by "paying" customers.

The "cheapness" of chess players was taken into account at these cafes by doing things such as selling membership cards (otherwise you paid $1 or so an hour - who can forget Pierre Dorion asking "Carte de membre?" at every table at the old En Passant - and half the players would get up and leave to avoid payment). Others simply charged hourly rentals, and some demanded consumption of something before sitting down to a (free) board.

[Tony Ficzere]

Re: Excellent Point from David Lavin

I use to run a club, for 10 years. We ran serious, but not serious chess there. There was something for everyone who loved the game. We had lessons for juniors, tournaments for adults, problem solving competitions, out door festivals, Christmas parties, internet parties, Canadian Closed, Canadian Championship play-off, Ontario Open, thematic events, CFC rated, club rated, not rated, after hours club, music, low prices, lots of fun.

We went from about 8 members to over 40. It took 10 years to get there. Mind you, we had lots of fun on the way.

The club lives.

Brantford Chess Club