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Then it comes down to one question : how much more is someone willing to pay to support his local chess bookstore? 2%, 5%, 10%, 25% ? I believe that for most people the answer is closer to 2% than 25.
It might not even be 2%. If you want to boil down your point to the statement "chess players are pretty much the cheapest b******s in the universe", then I think we need to end this discussion and award you the debate victory. :)
It might not even be 2%. If you want to boil down your point to the statement "chess players are pretty much the cheapest b******s in the universe", then I think we need to end this discussion and award you the debate victory. :)
and how did people survive without amazon back in non-internet ages? :D
It is pleasure to visit the store in Toronto and to chat with Francis, or meet Larry at Opens, get update on bestsellers, and buy some materials.
Yes, I am a scrooge too. Amazon let me not to brake with Kasparov series and other goodies :D The latest purchase a fancy mancy tablet. Only chess games. Highly recommended for chess commuters :) Wish there was a better PGN app which shows ECO codes.
Why would I raise it at a Governors' Meeting, Fred? I presume entering into contracts would be the purview of the executive. When I buy chessbooks, I almost always buy them from the CMA.
Why would I raise it at a Governors' Meeting, Fred? I presume entering into contracts would be the purview of the executive. When I buy chessbooks, I almost always buy them from the CMA.
No. I've made my beliefs clear, the Treasurer of the CFC has acknowledged them. It's up to him and his fellow executive members to decide what they want to do on this issue.
It might not even be 2%. If you want to boil down your point to the statement "chess players are pretty much the cheapest b******s in the universe", then I think we need to end this discussion and award you the debate victory. :)
I would never make such a statement (even at the risk of losing a first ever debate :) ) because I happen to believe that chess players as a bunch are no cheaper than the rest of the population. Like most people they like to have their monies' worth and then a bit more.
Yes shopping at your local chess store makes sense, but any shop still have a duty to be competitive (near enough) pricewise if it wants to survive.
Few people can afford to go in person at the "Boutique Strategie" to shop for chessbooks, which means that they have to order by mail anyway. And if one has to order by mail, from whom is he going to do it ? From the shop with the highest prices and the least product information on its website ?
By the way I just received the NIC book "The First 25 years" as a gift, for subscribing at the magazine at a 25% discount. Of course I could have bought it all at full price a couple of weeks earlier to encourage NIC who is doing quite good things for chess. I like to think that it is not being cheap, just wise buying at the right time, which otherwise would make even less sense for me budgetwise.
At the Canadian Open this summer I saw a few people who would browse our books...take notes and...no doubt by them online :)
According to stats that I have seen 39% of folks do this!
Larry
Shame, shame....I appreciate the opportunity to browse the new chess books at tournaments. For me, it's a impulse buy anyway. I already have too many books that I haven't read yet. :o
I say if you browse it there, you buy it there, or it is no sale.
I would never make such a statement (even at the risk of losing a first ever debate :) ) because I happen to believe that chess players as a bunch are no cheaper than the rest of the population. Like most people they like to have their monies' worth and then a bit more.
Yes shopping at your local chess store makes sense, but any shop still have a duty to be competitive (near enough) pricewise if it wants to survive.
Few people can afford to go in person at the "Boutique Strategie" to shop for chessbooks, which means that they have to order by mail anyway. And if one has to order by mail, from whom is he going to do it ? From the shop with the highest prices and the least product information on its website ?
By the way I just received the NIC book "The First 25 years" as a gift, for subscribing at the magazine at a 25% discount. Of course I could have bought it all at full price a couple of weeks earlier to encourage NIC who is doing quite good things for chess. I like to think that it is not being cheap, just wise buying at the right time, which otherwise would make even less sense for me budgetwise.
I have no problem being competitive provided I am offered the same terms as Amazon gets. So Jean, can I modify the invoice you gave us a couple of days ago for the new books you have published to reflect a 55% discount and we only pay if and when we sell the books?...and we will gladly pass on your additional discount to our customers.
What you don't seem to understand is that it is the publisher who is providing the discount and not Amazon.
Anyway, I know I won't win this debate, because Jean never loses a debate (having the last word?)...he just keeps replying until the other person can not be bothered to respond anymore!
In closing....Chess'n Math would like to thank all our great customers for their continued support. Have a great holiday season everyone! Thanks to you we still have a thriving book & equipment chess business which has allowed us to develop the game of chess in Canadian schools for over 26 years!
I have no problem being competitive provided I am offered the same terms as Amazon gets. So Jean, can I modify the invoice you gave us a couple of days ago for the new books you have published to reflect a 55% discount and we only pay if and when we sell the books?...and we will gladly pass on your additional discount to our customers.
You should thank me instead for having something that Amazon is not selling! Have you realised that you don't have to compete with Amazon on those ? 40% on the retail price is not enough for CMA to put a book on its shelves ? Is this what someone less charitable would call greed ?
Anyway, I know I won't win this arguement, because Jean never loses an arguement (having the last word?)...he just keeps replying until the other person can not be bothered to respond anymore!
This just tells me that you woke up this morning on the wrong foot and made a big mistake. Do you really consider that I should not have answered the personal undeserved attack that you launch on me in your first paragraph ? You should have known better than that.
I believe the CFC, like any other business, should focus on doing best what only it can do. That certainly does not include book retailing.
I probably buy chess books worth $2000 per year. When the CfC had an office in my Ottawa neighbourhood, I went there for all my chess needs and benefitted from the advice of their knowledgeable office staff. But it made absolutely no economic sense for the CFC and I sadly supported the decision to close the office. At the request of the then executive, I explored the possibility of an arrangement with Larry that to me made a great deal of sense. But too many CfC governors had too much baggage. Instead the CfC opted for the arrangement with Amazon but then, on Lavin's departure, did nothing to promote it to members.
Today, I often check first with the local Strategy Games store but if they do not have it I go directly to Amazon.ca. They have access to a huge selection and shipping is free (with the volume of chess and other books I buy) and very efficient. On one of Alexei Shirov's recent visits, he recommended Shereshevsky's endgame classic and it arrived before he left three days
later.
As for Reisman's little hobby, Chapters/Indigo, forget it. For me the final straw came when I urgently needed a memoir by a former colleague and great Canadian the late Arthuer Kroeger. At Chapters they had never heard of it or him. Online at Indigo they promised to get it within two months. It arrived from Amazon (free shipping) three days
later.
CMA was always there –a very important source to buy chess books. I took advantage quite often of their specials but I bought at full price as well – Amos Burn is probably the most expensive chess book I have ever bought.
I purchased a few dozen books from the Strategy store.
This being said, the amazons (.ca, .com etc.) offer unbeatable prices in most cases and the service is not bad. Also the amazons are hosting many first and second hand sellers that were forced to go online. Their selection beats other second hand sources such as abebooks and alibris – although sometimes they have unique offers.
As a principle I am avoiding shipping charges. If you look for non-chess books, amazon is the first place you should check.
I am well aware of the “dark side” of amazon(s) but they are already getting challenged by TheBookDepository ;)
Lastly – in a few years we might all run around with Kobos or Kindles – as the space to store our beloved books is shrinking …
I believe the CFC, like any other business, should focus on doing best what only it can do. That certainly does not include book retailing.
I probably buy chess books worth $2000 per year. When the CfC had an office in my Ottawa neighbourhood, I went there for all my chess needs and benefitted from the advice of their knowledgeable office staff. But it made absolutely no economic sense for the CFC and I sadly supported the decision to close the office. At the request of the then executive, I explored the possibility of an arrangement with Larry that to me made a great deal of sense. But too many CfC governors had too much baggage. Instead the CfC opted for the arrangement with Amazon but then, on Lavin's departure, did nothing to promote it to members.
Today, I often check first with the local Strategy Games store but if they do not have it I go directly to Amazon.ca. They have access to a huge selection and shipping is free (with the volume of chess and other books I buy) and very efficient. On one of Alexei Shirov's recent visits, he recommended Shereshevsky's endgame classic and it arrived before he left three days
later.
As for Reisman's little hobby, Chapters/Indigo, forget it. For me the final straw came when I urgently needed a memoir by a former colleague and great Canadian the late Arthuer Kroeger. At Chapters they had never heard of it or him. Online at Indigo they promised to get it within two months. It arrived from Amazon (free shipping) three days
later.
Gordon: I certainly hope that if you are buying your books from amazon.ca, you at least go there through chess.ca to get there, so the CFC can get a commission.
I've seen an independent bookstore in Hamilton get shipments from Amazon. So presumably they were ordering from Amazon and selling at a higher price in their store. I know their prices were quite a bit higher than Amazon. For example I got two different hardcover children's anthologies for the same price that one would have cost me in their store. The neighbourhood had a considerable older population that may have wanted to do things the old fashioned way. So before you start giving your loyalty to this place or that beware that you may be being naive. If my business model was based on people paying higher prices simply out of loyalty I would be very afraid.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Saturday, 24th December, 2011, 10:02 PM.
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