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Calgarians NM David Zhang and Nicka Kalaydina take 2012 Can. Jr.
Ya, it seems too expensive and additionally, there are many more stronger players in eastern Canada than western Canada. It would actually be unfair for those in Ontario/Quebec since they will face stronger opposition than the winner from BC/Alberta. This is why Blue jays fans want a balanced schedule. As an analogy, playing in the AL east is much tougher than playing in the AL central. I hope most of you understood that comparison.
Hi Bindi:
You are right on the dynamics of this new format as things now stand:
1. The Eastern Regional JCC will be quite strong in comparison with the Western Regional JCC.
2. There is possibility of a greater rating difference in the final championship match, than in the Eastern JCC.
On the other hand:
1. The west seems to be developing quite quickly - the two junior champions are from Calgary; Eric Hansen; Jason Cao; Tanraj Sohal; Alexandra Botez; Loren Laceste; and others. In time, I think the west will move to become stronger.
2. There is some publicity value to this format re the final championship match. Canadians support their own. So there will be backing for the Western and Eastern champions. People will cheer for " their side ". This opens up chess marketing possibilities and mainstream media coverage.
A CFC member has brought the following proposal for future Canadian Junior CC's to the Executive to review:
Have both a Western Junior Chess Championship and an Eastern Junior Chess Championship with the two winners eventually squaring off in an old fashioned match tournament for the national title?
His supportive comments were:
1. Canada's a big country and it gets rather expensive for those here in the east to make their way west and vice versa when the site is in the east.
2.You'd get far better participation and only one player each year would have to go to the expense of making a long trip (hopefully financed in part by the CFC).
3. A very simple but effective solution to the problem of low junior participation.
Two regional championships would be a step in the right direction (in reducing travel costs and sharing responsibilities and opportunities) but it would not be very effective if they kept a formula to remain weak and unappealing to top juniors.
You are right on the dynamics of this new format as things now stand:
1. The Eastern Regional JCC will be quite strong in comparison with the Western Regional JCC.
2. There is possibility of a greater rating difference in the final championship match, than in the Eastern JCC.
On the other hand:
1. The west seems to be developing quite quickly - the two junior champions are from Calgary; Eric Hansen; Jason Cao; Tanraj Sohal; Alexandra Botez; Loren Laceste; and others. In time, I think the west will move to become stronger.
2. There is some publicity value to this format re the final championship match. Canadians support their own. So there will be backing for the Western and Eastern champions. People will cheer for " their side ". This opens up chess marketing possibilities and mainstream media coverage.
Bob
I think Eric Hansen will no longer be a junior soon and Loren Laceste is 18 now? He only has a few more years before he's not considered a junior either. If you look at just Ontario, there are a ton of 2000+ players that you can't even name them all. Even though there's obviously some inflation and overated juniors going around Ontario probably have 5 times as many players at the level of the top comparable juniors in Western Canada. It's not even close.
Also Bob, you got punked by Kevin Spraggett, and he's not as nice as MTV.
Also Bob, you got punked by Kevin Spraggett, and he's not as nice as MTV.
Hi Bindi:
Thx for alerting me to KS's blog article.
It's simple.
Who's got it right - KS or CFC??
Often not easy to tell:
1. " I believe KS because he is a great Can. GM ";
2. " The issue is a very difficult one because of Canada' geography, and CFC's limited revenue ".
3. " CFC often has gotten it wrong; so this case is no different ".
4. " At least a CFC member ( Bob made clear in his post that it was not his own proposal - the member is a CFC junior parent, and Bob wasn't sure if he wanted his name used, to give him specific credit for the idea ) is thinking outside the box on how to solve a problem ( juniors not attending CJCC ), without just throwing tons of CFC money at it - always KS's solution ".
5. " Amazing that the hide-bound CFC Governors would bother to consider a somewhat radical, new member's opinion! "
A CFC member has brought the following proposal for future Canadian Junior CC's to the Executive to review:
Have both a Western Junior Chess Championship and an Eastern Junior Chess Championship with the two winners eventually squaring off in an old fashioned match tournament for the national title?
His supportive comments were:
1. Canada's a big country and it gets rather expensive for those here in the east to make their way west and vice versa when the site is in the east.
2.You'd get far better participation and only one player each year would have to go to the expense of making a long trip (hopefully financed in part by the CFC).
3. A very simple but effective solution to the problem of low junior participation.
Any thoughts on this proposal?
Bob A
(Not mine either) but seems like a good suggestion to me. I will probably get punked too now.
[I don't get the objections...
Isn't the World Junior's itself already two-tiered? First you compete in your country, then you go to the finals. Aren't some countries (like Russia) championship way harder to win than others (like Canada)l?]
You could even consider West Coast, Yukon/NWT, the Prairies, Ontario-Quebec, Maritimes -the trip to the championship could be the first prize for each region.
Thx from the governors for expanding the debate with some more " thinking outside the box " ( Kevin is unfortunately looking at the way things used to be, and trying to go backwards - that's not " thinking outside the box " ). The governors ( despite some resistance; and contrary to popular belief ) do value the contibution of members, and would love to try to get more members involved in the running of the CFC as volunteers ( the up-take on this offer to date has been somewhat underwhelming ).
Bob
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Thursday, 12th January, 2012, 09:40 AM.
You could even consider West Coast, Yukon/NWT, the Prairies, Ontario-Quebec, Maritimes -the trip to the championship could be the first prize for each region.
Hi Ed:
I have now taken your idea to the governors' board, since we also are discussing this issue there - governors do do some work sometimes!
I have now taken your idea to the governors' board, since we also are discussing this issue there - governors do do some work sometimes!
Bob
There is a danger that making the qualification tournaments more granular (more of them) might result in very weak players qualifying from a lightweight region. Many people would argue that the championship should include as many of the top players as possible...
That leads back to the resentment that occurs when a large contingent from one region more or less dominates the championship.
What if there was a rating floor (say 2000) for inclusion in the final championship and the winner of the Nunavut Regional was only 1150? (no slagging of Nunuvut intended). There would be no reason to even hold a regional qualifier if no one was over 2000.
Having a West-East regional [2] or West, Prairie, Central and East regionals [4] might be about as far as that idea should go until some experience is gained.
The governors... do value the contibution of members, and would love to try to get more members involved... ( the up-take on this offer to date has been somewhat underwhelming ).
Bob
Yes, you'd need many more organizers and volunteers for this idea.
Also, I'm not sure regional championships would be better for other
reasons.
Re: Calgarians NM David Zhang and Nicka Kalaydina take 2012 Can. Jr.
I was focussing on the positives Larry.
Like too many CFC programs, the Canadian Junior is under resourced. I would love to see this event become a real crown jewel in the CFC calendar, and generate sponsor value by promoting excellence. I am encouraged by recent interest in revving up this competition.
As FIDE Rep I want our best players to contest the right to compete for Canada, and then do it to their very utmost. This is not always possible. Murphy lurks and lurks.
The old format, in force up to the late 1990s, with meaningful provincial / regional representation, worked well enough. With strong provincial associations, the same format could do the job. Each of the six provinces / regions would send (i.e., pay for) its best player to the Nationals, a 10- or 12- player RR, with the rest by rating.
AFAIR, the format change was made for ideological reasons and was supported by governors such as ex-President Peter Stockhausen. By now, he'd be a world-class expert on that ideology.
It's unfortunate that two or three regions were unable to be represented at the Calgary 2012 Canadian Junior. All six regions were represented, for example, at the 1974 Canadian Junior, a 10-RR. It wasn't unusual.
I am not sure how telling someone who didn't want to come from BC to Alberta for the Canadian Junior that he would need to come for the Western Canadian Junior only to qualify for the final would make them more likely to come.
I suspect if one of the higher rated kids had won the event this wouldn't be such a big discussion. I watched the Zhang - Cao game and was a bit surprised how it went.
In any case, a player only has to play well enough to win his current game and well enough to win the event. A player can only beat the players who are entered in the event and with whom he's paired. You can't beat the players who didn't come.
Who knows. Maybe many top players didn't come because they didn't want to get creamed in the World Junior and it wouldn't have mattered where the event took place.
Thx from the governors for expanding the debate with some more " thinking outside the box " ( Kevin is unfortunately looking at the way things used to be, and trying to go backwards - that's not " thinking outside the box " ).
To me, thinking "outside of the box" means considering all alternatives, including old out of fahion ideas that have been "forgotten" and used to work relatively well. Going "forward" does not necessarily mean trying to reinvent the wheel, or convert all chess events into the self-sufficient but inappropriate open format.
National championships held under an "open" format such as a the canadian junior are bound to be relatively weak and/or unrepresentative regional or even local events, considering Canada's size.
If we want a strong event with reasonable regional representation, we simply need x higher rated players and y regional representatives in an invitational event. There is no way around it. Only details have to be worked out.
National championships held under an "open" format such as a the canadian junior are bound to be relatively weak and/or unrepresentative regional or even local events, considering Canada's size.
IMHO, some free $$$$$ would change a picture considerably, would it be open, closed or filled
Otherwise it is a talk show.
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