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The perception of nerdiness associated with chess hurts retention. I think that the kids that are attracted to chess in the Windsor area seem to be dispelling this stereotype. Most are athletic and well rounded with interests beside chess.
The fact that chess in Canada seems to be 98% guys on average does not help though there have been some counter currents to this trend. I think the reaction of one of the boys on a high school chess team from Windsor as reported by one of my former students might provide a clue about how chess might be popularized more. He was angry at his teammates who were regular CFC players because they hadn't informed him that chess tournaments were populated by so many beautiful young women.
In Windsor about half the advanced kids chess class is made up of girls. Hopefully we can keep them interested as they move into their teens. I did notice in the intermediate class that the boys do things to chase out the girls. These are mostly kids from age eight to twelve so we to be aware of this dynamic and stop it from manifesting itself.
Well, at least here we have someone making rational statements rather than emotional I-can't-handle-the-truth rants.
But with respect to "they hadn't informed him that chess tournaments were populated by so many beautiful young women":
So are football games, and the young women don't just sit there and think all day, they get up and dance.
Any attempt to make chess "sexy" is doomed to failure. Putting lipstick on a pig.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Any attempt to make chess "sexy" is doomed to failure.
I think both Mr.Eric and Mr.Aman have shown with their pictures above that chess can be "sexy".
I have shown both of their pictures to my friends working at Sutherland Models. My friends have stated that their "sexiness"/sex appeal ranks in the top 30% of the accepted models.
Chess can indeed be sexy with the right individuals.
The perception of nerdiness associated with chess hurts retention. I think that the kids that are attracted to chess in the Windsor area seem to be dispelling this stereotype. Most are athletic and well rounded with interests beside chess.
The fact that chess in Canada seems to be 98% guys on average does not help though there have been some counter currents to this trend. I think the reaction of one of the boys on a high school chess team from Windsor as reported by one of my former students might provide a clue about how chess might be popularized more. He was angry at his teammates who were regular CFC players because they hadn't informed him that chess tournaments were populated by so many beautiful young women.
In Windsor about half the advanced kids chess class is made up of girls. Hopefully we can keep them interested as they move into their teens. I did notice in the intermediate class that the boys do things to chase out the girls. These are mostly kids from age eight to twelve so we to be aware of this dynamic and stop it from manifesting itself.
There were plenty of female players at the Capablanca Memorial in Havana when I played there last year. All quite stylishly dressed too. That event had entrants from dozens of countries (not all from the Americas). North America may be exceptional when it comes to having a very low percentage of female chess players (not to mention not defining chess as a sport, although my NA roots may make me reluctant to call it that too).
What makes a lot of kids quit chess is simply choosing to pursue studies, career and family life as adults instead. The low chance for a reliable, decent income for a professional chessplayer hurts the game more than perceived nerdiness, IMHO. However, at least some kids who quit the game come back to it, as a hobby, years later.
[edit: it's also tough trying to keep a lot of kids in the game simply as amateurs as adults, simply because the game demands a lot of time (unless one settles for speed/casual/internet chess)]
Last edited by Kevin Pacey; Tuesday, 1st May, 2012, 07:57 AM.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
My post on the Cooperative Chess Coalition Facebook chess discussion group, " CCC - Chess Posts of Interest ":
I think we have to look at chess from the point of view of a " Hobby ". But it is one that takes time. Maybe there is not a " Problem " of juniors leaving chess after highschool, and not getting back to it when they get their first job, are paying off student loans, getting married, some having kids, paying mortgages, etc. ( we all get the picture ). Rather it is simply a natural choice to set it aside during such a period. It is to most a hobby, and it gets competition from other interests after highschool, and there is not much time for it, and it is discouraging to some to play badly, because they no longer have time to keep their game sharp, as it was in school. One of our CCC " supporters " suggested that the " problem " is that as chess organizers/promoters, we are not there when they surface! They finally get somewhat settled in life and home and job, and maybe see some time opening up..........and is anyone there to suggest they return to the happy childhood passion of chess?? Or do other competing interests catch their attention first, and they go off recreationally in another direction? Food for thought.
Part of what you seem to be implying is that organized chess is to some degree a closed curcuit of organizers and players, and that organizers or the CFC don't proactively advertise to the public enough, or that the CFC doesn't routinely contact ex-CFC members years later. However such effort takes time, manpower and/or money.
For whatever the reason, the 'closed curcuit' I refer to, once broken between a former participant in organized chess and organized chess itself, seems to stay broken, to parapharase you. There is no reminder to adults about the game in their past that they have lost, and then forgotten.
Last edited by Kevin Pacey; Tuesday, 1st May, 2012, 10:42 AM.
Reason: Grammar
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
Juniors do not continue to play chess when they reach adulthood because it is not an activity or skill that is appreciated by adult Canadian culture. That is why so many of our top players drop out. Chess is not valued, so they can't make a good wage doing it. Or, they can make more doing something else. I know we would all like those players to suffer financially while our game benefits from their presence, but that is not going to happen. It is time to face it. When many people try to change something and it does not happen, maybe it just can't be done. Not only is it not working, we are going backwards! The continued whining by people trying to piss against the wind has become so tiresome. It is not failure to admit it, but it is the reality. Anyone who thinks that Canada will change in the future and be some sort of powerhouse has not been looking at the history of chess in Canada.
IMO Youth chess can compete with other activities reasonably because there are 7 age based World Championships to pursue from age 8 - 20. CMA has grade by grade provincial championships feeding into a national event. So there are plenty of dreams/bragging rights to chase.
Thereafter players are lumped into the same pile. Fewer dreams, more life responsibilities. Many juniors (at parents' urging?) have used chess as a brain gym to help achieve good academic results en route to a career. As Mark Bluvshtein suggests, Canada provides too many lucretive career options for most chessplayers to ignore.
I think the nerd factor is a waning detriment. The ubiquity of computers and other hi tech gadgets is seeing to that.
I think both Mr.Eric and Mr.Aman have shown with their pictures above that chess can be "sexy".
I have shown both of their pictures to my friends working at Sutherland Models. My friends have stated that their "sexiness"/sex appeal ranks in the top 30% of the accepted models.
Chess can indeed be sexy with the right individuals.
Norm
LOL!!!!
I looked carefully.... and I didn't find any chess pieces or chess boards or chess clocks in either picture.
So if you're trying to say those two individuals, to whatever degree they may be sexy, are sexy because of chess: FAIL. How about IN SPITE OF chess?
And keep in mind that, the moment some female ensnares either of those "sexy" dudes, the first thing she's going to do is, get him out of chess.
Unless she's also in chess, in which case we may have the equivalent of the Jimmy Connors / Chris Evert tennis coupling of the mid-70's.
Now there's an idea! Instead of searching for Bobby Fischer, we should be searching for Jimmy and Chris!
Oh..... except..... all they're ever going to be doing is playing chess.....
Lipstick on a pig.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
IMO Youth chess can compete with other activities reasonably because there are 7 age based World Championships to pursue from age 8 - 20. CMA has grade by grade provincial championships feeding into a national event. So there are plenty of dreams/bragging rights to chase.
Thereafter players are lumped into the same pile. Fewer dreams, more life responsibilities. Many juniors (at parents' urging?) have used chess as a brain gym to help achieve good academic results en route to a career. As Mark Bluvshtein suggests, Canada provides too many lucretive career options for most chessplayers to ignore.
I think the nerd factor is a waning detriment. The ubiquity of computers and other hi tech gadgets is seeing to that.
Very good analysis, but not quite complete. It's not just that "thereafter players are lumped into the same pile". The other thing is that by age 20, a chess player knows with almost absolute certainty where in the pecking order s/he ranks, and can reasonably expect that that relative ranking will not significantly change for the rest of his or her life.
And why is that? Because chess, unlike most other games and sports, is pure skill (with no embellishment via luck) which by age 20 or even earlier is probably 99% fully developed. This impairs chess compared to other sports where careers and development are just getting ramped up at age 20. The top levels of chess become stale, lacking any real dynamism. It's the same names and same faces for years at a time. That's good if you're in the top group, you can make a nice comfortable living, but nothing extraordinary because your game just doesn't get media interest (for reasons not even touched on here). You can be like Jean Hebert, living a life of meager income teaching the game and winning the odd $250 for a whole weekend's worth of effort, but it's all worth it because when you tell people you make a living in chess, you see "genuine admiration" in their eyes.
But for the vast majority, organized chess after age 20 becomes a recreational pastime at best, and that's only if there's nothing better to do. And for most sexy members of society, there are many, many better things to do.
Having said that, I must add that chess as a game (differentiated from organized chess) is a beautiful creation worthy of problem study and artistic appreciation. I might also add that it is proving to be VERY worthy of exploration of new variation, as I have been proving to myself again and again. There doesn't seem to be any end to the possibilities....
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
And keep in mind that, the moment some female ensnares either of those "sexy" dudes, the first thing she's going to do is, get him out of chess.
As long as you possess naturally appealing aesthetics that would keep a girl interested before she knew you played chess, it is only an asset if discovered that you're among the best chess players in Canada.
For those ditzy club girls, I use the lie if needed:
"I'm a World Chess Champion."
This can quickly be validated by a google search from their phone. If they see a few links to you, as well as some google images, then you're in.
As long as you don't "fit" the nerdy stereotype that chess is plagued with, being elite at it is actually quite an intriguing quality because it's unexpected. After all, I possess more "celebrity status" than any guy they will ever meet. That's just fact. Within 20 seconds you can go from an already attractive guy, to someone with a differing quality. One that many girls find sexy.
As long as you don't "fit" the nerdy stereotype that chess is plagued with, being elite at it is actually quite an intriguing quality because it's unexpected. After all, I possess more "celebrity status" than any guy they will ever meet. That's just fact. Within 20 seconds you can go from an already attractive guy, to someone with a differing quality. One that many girls find sexy.
Exactly my life experience. :) I just wish that I had realised that much earlier!
After all, I possess more "celebrity status" than any guy they will ever meet.
Until they meet a talented hockey player... or football player... or lacrosse player... or basketball player.... or soccer player.... or tennis player.... or baseball player.... or golfer.... or curler.... or poker player....
The point being, girls / women are MUCH more attracted to an (already attractive) guy who is a celebrity in a game that is physically rugged or active (or in the case of poker player, a game that is much more financially rewarding).
Chess might have an "unexpected" quality at first, but any lustre they attach to it will very soon rub off, especially when they realize that you're going to be spending almost every weekend, even into the late night, doing that same old thing: sitting at a chess board, with your foot nervously tapping, staring at some inanimate pieces while your opponent thinks of a move. Tick tock, tick tock, your youth is tick tocking away, can you handle the excitement?
Enjoy your 15 minutes of "fame" while it lasts, don't drink too much from the "celebrity status" Koolaid fountain.
And of all things, to have Jean Hebert encourage you! Take a good hard look at Jean Hebert, because that could be your future: 25+ years of a constant rating in the 2400 range, and a few rinky dink "titles" that were won only because the really good people didn't show up. You'd be whining too if you had that kind of regret driving you.
Last edited by Paul Bonham; Thursday, 3rd May, 2012, 12:49 AM.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
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