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Re: Students Trying to Negotiate with Quebec Liberals
That's fairly amusing. Do they honestly think it has any chance at all of happening, or are they just looking for publicity?
Don't get me wrong, I see where they are coming from and free tuition within reason is a noble goal. It just has absolutely zero chance of success from what I can see.
Re: Students Trying to Negotiate with Quebec Liberals
and has it never occured to anyone that making tuition free will just cause some sector of students to treat university as a joke, it's free, who cares, let's party
back in the day I knew students for whom university was free, they were children of university staff, some of them could care less about their grades, it was just a place to hang out for a few years
Re : Students Trying to Negotiate with Quebec Liberals
I became, without really wanting it, one of the ''spokesman'' of the students who want to come back in class.... Believe it or not, we cannot even walk alone in the streets anymore. Some of us have been attacked. A friend of mine is giving an interview at TVA later tonight and I will need to accompany her, since the 2 last times she got hit by people wearing masks...
Last edited by Felix Dumont; Thursday, 3rd May, 2012, 02:26 PM.
I became, without really wanting it, one of the ''spokesman'' of the students who want to come back in class.... Believe it or not, we cannot even walk alone in the streets anymore. Some of us have been attacked. A friend of mine is giving an interview at TVA later tonight and I will need to accompany her, since the 2 last time she got hit by people wearing masks...
First of all, any form of face masking should be illegal and grounds for arrest. In our open society (which we take great pride in), no law abiding citizen with a legitimate position should be covering their face.
Secondly, is our society such that it will permit a gang of hooligans to do whatever it wants, in defiance of the law?
First of all, any form of face masking should be illegal and grounds for arrest. In our open society (which we take great pride in), no law abiding citizen with a legitimate position should be covering their face.
Secondly, is our society such that it will permit a gang of hooligans to do whatever it wants, in defiance of the law?
You do realize that there are rights and then there are rights. If you don't want the right thing according to the OWS mob violence crowd and their apologists and justifiers then you don't have rights. If you do want the right thing that the OWS mob violence crowd approves of then you have ultimate rights that trump anyone else's. Block any street, attack any police officer... your supporters are standing by to explain away your actions. Don't make the mistake of thinking that law or the constitution is what decides who has rights in this country.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 3rd May, 2012, 02:24 PM.
You do realize that there are rights and then there are rights. If you don't want the right thing according to the OWS mob violence crowd and their apologists and justifiers then you don't have rights. If you do want the right thing that the OWS mob violence crowd approves of then you have ultimate rights that trump anyone else's. Don't make the mistake of thinking that law or the constitution is what decides who has rights in this country.
You got it! In simple terms, it's the old "my way or the highway" philosophy.
and has it never occured to anyone that making tuition free will just cause some sector of students to treat university as a joke, it's free, who cares, let's party
While you are in Europe you should check before you dig yourself a big hole. Several major european countries do have free higher education systems and they work. Hiking tuition fees may not be the only way to make students take their studies seriously. And if it is not the case with the current fees, it is not the 50 cents/day hike proposed by the government (called minimal and insignificant by the education minister...) that will change that.
The problem is not that the students demands are unrealistic or impossible. Both sides positions are equally legitimate in my opinion. But for electoral reasons the Quebec government wanted that conflict to show how responsible they can be with tax payers money (hoping that it could erase major and long going cases of corruption). What they had not foreseen is that it would turn into a unwinable battle that has gotten out of control. Otherwise how can anyone explain why the Liberals came up with this sensitive and possibly confrontational reform during the last year of their mandate ?
While you are in Europe you should check before you dig yourself a big hole. Several major european countries do have free higher education systems and they work. Hiking tuition fees may not be the only way to make students take their studies seriously. And if it is not the case with the current fees, it is not the 50 cents/day hike proposed by the government (called minimal and insignificant by the education minister...) that will change that.
The problem is not that the students demands are unrealistic or impossible. Both sides positions are equally legitimate in my opinion. But for electoral reasons the Quebec government wanted that conflict to show how responsible they can be with tax payers money (hoping that it could erase major and long going cases of corruption). What they had not foreseen is that it would turn into a unwinable battle that has gotten out of control. Otherwise how can anyone explain why the Liberals came up with this sensitive and possibly confrontational reform during the last year of their mandate ?
While you are not in Europe you should be careful not to dig yourself into a hole speculating on the educational system here without any basis in first hand knowledge. You shoud also not embarras yourself by seemingly not knowing the financial crisis Europe finds itself in.
I am going to a French international business school. What makes it international? It is taught in English and has students from all over the world. What makes it French is that it is in France and has a majority of French students. It is considered an elite school. Why, well for the following reasons
1. Students, both French and international, are required to pay tuition. So am I. I am taking masters courses here. If I wanted to complete my masters in business here I would be paying tuition comparable to what I would pay in Canada for an MBA, a considerable amount.
2. The school picks students based on their grades unlike the regular university system in which schools are not allowed to pick their students.
3. The school sets their own curriculum. Unlike the state schools where the curriculum is set for them by the ministry of education.
4. This is all part of the grand ecole system whose graduates are much better placed to assume positions both within France and internationally. The grand ecole is considered far superior to the regular university system.
5. The school I am attending is among grand ecoles somewhat unique in that it is also part of a regular university but run seperately from it. ie the Universite Catholique de Lille.
6. Next term I am going to a grand ecole which is not part of a university and is ranked #2 or #3 in France. Their tuition is even higher.
So the question you have to ask yourself is why French students would pay to attend a grand ecole and be required to study in Engish when according to you they could attend a university in French only for free. Also I am not in several major countries of Europe, I am in France and part of the French university system as an international exchange student. Unlike you I take it that has never been a student in France or elsewhere in Europe. Based on my first hand experience I am a big supporter of the grand ecole system which includes paying tuition.
Both sides are right? You sound like a high school principal trying to arbitrate over a school yard fight. Why does any government try to legislate throughout the last year of their mandate? Oh, let's see, legal obligation to do so and fiscal responsibility would be two possibilities.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 3rd May, 2012, 04:27 PM.
Re : Students Trying to Negotiate with Quebec Liberals
It is good to mention that 30% of the students benefit from scholarships and bursaries (with nearly no interest, beginning after the end of the studies). The raise is actually a way to make the richest pay more and the poorest pay less...
While you are not in Europe you should be careful not to dig yourself into a hole speculating on the educational system here without any basis in first hand knowledge. You shoud also not embarras yourself by seemingly not knowing the financial crisis Europe finds itself in.
I am going to a French international business school. What makes it international? It is taught in English and has students from all over the world. What makes it French is that it is in France and has a majority of French students. It is considered an elite school. Why, well for the following reasons
1. Students, both French and international, are required to pay tuition. So am I. I am taking masters courses here. If I wanted to complete my masters in business here I would be paying tuition comparable to what I would pay in Canada for an MBA, a considerable amount.
2. The school picks students based on their grades unlike the regular university system in which schools are not allowed to pick their students.
3. The school sets their own curriculum. Unlike the state schools where the curriculum is set for them by the ministry of education.
4. This is all part of the grand ecole system whose graduates are much better placed to assume positions both within France and internationally. The grand ecole is considered far superior to the regular university system.
5. The school I am attending is among grand ecoles somewhat unique in that it is also part of a regular university but run seperately from it. ie the Universite Catholique de Lille.
6. Next term I am going to a grand ecole which is not part of a university and is ranked #2 or #3 in France. Their tuition is even higher.
So the question you have to ask yourself is why French students would pay to attend a grand ecole and be required to study in Engish when according to you they could attend a university in French only for free. Also I am not in several major countries of Europe, I am in France and part of the French university system as an international exchange student. Unlike you I take it that has never been a student in France or elsewhere in Europe. Based on my first hand experience I am a big supporter of the grand ecole system which includes paying tuition.
Both sides are right? You sound like a high school principal trying to arbitrate over a school yard fight. Why does any government try to legislate throughout the last year of their mandate? Oh, let's see, legal obligation to do so and fiscal responsibility would be two possibilities.
90% of your post is irrelevant and the rest is based on misreading what I wrote. For what you need to learn I very much doubt that any university in the World can be of any help to you, no matter how much you pay.
90% of your post is irrelevant and the rest is based on misreading what I wrote. For what you need to learn I very much doubt that any university in the World can be of any help to you, no matter how much you pay.
It was a nice attempt by you to lecture me about the European university system. Unfortunately it fell short due to your complete lack of knowledge. That and the fact that I'm the guy with more ECTS than you'll ever have. Also culturally I must say you share little with the French. Your arrogance and insults are the last thing I find the norm here in France. You are a real North American Jean. So you have nothing to teach me about Europe. Also after playing in a European tournament with numerous GMs I'm not that easily impressed by this ranking or that back in Canada. I have seen the real deal.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Thursday, 3rd May, 2012, 10:00 PM.
First of all, any form of face masking should be illegal and grounds for arrest. In our open society (which we take great pride in), no law abiding citizen with a legitimate position should be covering their face.
Italy has this law...
Secondly, is our society such that it will permit a gang of hooligans to do whatever it wants, in defiance of the law?
and has it never occured to anyone that making tuition free will just cause some sector of students to treat university as a joke, it's free, who cares, let's party
Enough already have that belief. I had a roommate in 1st year who was given a $2000 beer budget from his dad (the fridge was already full of beer when I arrived on the first day; no room for food!). He actually spent it by sometime in October. Ended up flunking out at the end of the second semester.
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