The vision thing

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  • The vision thing

    This is something that I posted on the CFC discussion board in the membership drive thread and which probably should have a wider audience among the Canadian chess community.

    One of the vision statements coming out of the face to face meeting of the long term planning committee which will probably make it into the final report was a ten year goal of 10,000 CFC members. Some of the naysayers will say that this is a ridiculously large number given the current realities but I believe that this is a conservative number relative to what is possible and achievable.

    Windsor and area's share of this number would be about 100 members. I am fairly certain that if we keep doing what we are doing now we can comfortably exceed this number.

    Every year Windsor [actually John Coleman with the help of an army of volunteers] holds a scholastic tournament over two days (once over three days) where 1400 children in grades 1 through 8 come together for a one day tournament (approximately 700 each day). If the same tournament were set up across Canada and achieved similar numbers based on population you would have 160,000 children participating in chess.

    The key point about the Windsor tournament is that the numbers are throttled back to keep the event manageable. If you stopped throttling the accelerator the number could easily exceed 1600 children and would probably creep up year after year.

    I think that the current approach of contacting lapsed members and calling them back is not the best use of volunteer time. I was a lapsed member for long periods of time at least twice in my life and there is little that could have been done to bring me back though I do look on those lost years in terms of chess with a touch of regret. I recall a chance meeting with John Coleman at Chapters in the mall during my hiatus where I asserted that I would probably never play chess again other than perhaps the odd recreational game. He reminds me of that meeting on a fairly regular basis.

    Part of the reason for the hiatus was that I became involved in chess organizing and was simply burned out dealing with the people that you encounter as a chess organizer. It is a fairly low payoff to begin with and it doesn't take much to tip someone over into the giving up in disgust camp. John Coleman had similar experience when dealing with adults and retreated into the world of children's chess with occasional forays into adult tournaments which remind him again of the reason that he decided to focus on children's chess.

    Children love to play chess. They are grateful for the chance to learn and play and actually thank you on a fairly regular basis for your efforts. There is also the payoff in watching them improve and grow. There is a huge hunger for chess and desire for chess improvement among children and their parents. It is not unusual for children and their parents to drive in from distant parts of the county to join a children's chess club. If you want to develop a thriving chess scene start some children's chess clubs, preferably under the tutelage of some experienced players. More than one is better. There are five in Windsor that I am aware of, spread across the city, not counting the ones in the schools and I am involved in three of them.

  • #2
    Re: The vision thing

    Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
    Windsor and area's share of this number would be about 100 members. I am fairly certain that if we keep doing what we are doing now we can comfortably exceed this number.

    Every year Windsor [actually John Coleman with the help of an army of volunteers] holds a scholastic tournament over two days (once over three days) where 1400 children in grades 1 through 8 come together for a one day tournament (approximately 700 each day). If the same tournament were set up across Canada and achieved similar numbers based on population you would have 160,000 children participating in chess.
    [/B]
    Actually there are many more children involved in chess as a result of this tournament than are stated in that nominal number of 1400 as the schools that take part in the competition usually have their own qualification process which weeds out and determines their own champions and representatives. Some of the schools have a playoff to determine who will represent the school. Whatever the system used many more children are playing chess in the schools out of a desire to win the individual and school championships.

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    • #3
      Re: The vision thing

      I think you guys are doing a fantastic job in Windsor. Here's hoping the CFC can help translate some of Windsor's success into more successes across the country.
      "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
      "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
      "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

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      • #4
        Re: The vision thing

        Originally posted by Peter McKillop View Post
        I think you guys are doing a fantastic job in Windsor. Here's hoping the CFC can help translate some of Windsor's success into more successes across the country.
        Thanks. I hope so too as that was one of the reasons that I got on the long term planning committee.

        We had a weird Friday night advanced class this weekend as for the first time probably ever there were no girls in the class as many had headed to Toronto a day early to play in the Ontario Girls Chess Championship. Usually the ratio is about 50/50 girls and boys which is another anomaly in the Windsor experience vs. the rest of the country. The boys minus the girls were a bit more rambunctious than usual.

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        • #5
          Re: The vision thing

          How did you estimate that Windsor's share would be 100 of the overall objective of 10000?

          I would think the numbers are feasable. For a checkers tournament alone in Hamilton they got 700 children at one tournament. http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...checkers-champ

          A chess program coupled with a larger local or regional tournament works best I think. This was what happened when the YMCA had a program for children in Hamilton and that was fortunately aligned with the time Hal Bond was running scholastic tournaments in Burlington. It really created interest for the kids to play other kids they hadn't played before.
          Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Sunday, 20th May, 2012, 01:19 AM.

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          • #6
            Re: The vision thing

            Originally posted by Zeljko Kitich View Post
            How did you estimate that Windsor's share would be 100 of the overall objective of 10000?

            I would think the numbers are feasable. For a checkers tournament alone in Hamilton they got 700 children at one tournament. http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...checkers-champ
            It looks that if Hamilton could tap that same organization and focus it on chess you would have a tournament very similar in character to the Windsor Chess Challenge.

            The hundred members is based on a greater Windsor and Essex County population of slightly less than 1% of Canada's. One percent of 10,000 is 100. As long as we don't lose too many more of the stronger players or organizers (Denton Cockburn moved to Montreal and Istvan Kiraly had to give up teaching chess, and Fazle Baki seems to be focused on other activities like scouting recently which has put a big hole in our local efforts) I would be fairly comfortable in predicting 200 local (greater Windsor) CFC members in a decade (mostly children or adults who started as children and who have grown up in the Windsor system). Hopefully we can bring back some of the kids that have shuffled off to other interests (music, scouting, hockey etc.).

            Right now I believe we have about 50 and maybe as many as 60 Windsor and area children who are CFC members (over 11 to 13% of the Canadian total!!!) mainly due to the recent OYCC and last year's Toronto CYCC and maybe six or ten regular adults plus a few adult life members. We probably have another ten or so children who play in CFC tournaments but haven't become members because they have only played in junior only tournaments so I am cheating when I pretend to meet Windsor's growth obligations with a measly 100 CFC member chess players. They are already in the pipeline and may come online in less than two or three years. A lot of our stronger kids are concentrated in a few schools and we have seen an emergence of new players from these schools without any of our direct intervention.

            If I could clone John Coleman I could probably guarantee three or four hundred members from Windsor in a decade.
            Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Sunday, 20th May, 2012, 02:24 AM.

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            • #7
              Re: The vision thing

              In the 10,000 members vision, what kind of a split are you looking for on an juniors and adults basis? 80/20, 60/40?

              What kind of a budget is there to increase membership? When I was increasing the CCCA membership it cost money.

              More active members generate more work. That's a fact. Does the CFC have the infrastructure in place to handle that number of members? 10,000 divided by 50 equals 200 governors as one consideration.

              Can the CFC compete with the online toys? I wrote here years ago the CFC needed to add a server. They built a web site without a server. Now what's needed is an App for the Apple (and similar) products which will let players get a game any time of day or night simply by being a member. That's the future of chess, in my opinion.

              I use an APP to play scrabble. I have no idea who I'm playing because I don't even have to sign in. Sometimes the game takes a few days to complete because people play when they have some free time.

              That number of members is realistic and all I'm asking about is the planning.
              Gary Ruben
              CC - IA and SIM

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              • #8
                Re: The vision thing

                Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
                In the 10,000 members vision, what kind of a split are you looking for on an juniors and adults basis? 80/20, 60/40?
                Anything I say here would be my own opinion and might not be the opinion of the other members of the long term planning committee and thus might not make it into the plan to be presented before the AGM . With that caveat, I would think that 80% or more of the new members would be juniors or fairly young adults. This is based on my personal observation that it is much easier to add a new junior than a new adult.

                The adults that are not that difficult to add are often associated with children either as parents or as teachers.

                The 10,000 member number was decided upon as a significant improvement to the current situation that could be attainable on an incremental basis. The potential is there for significant increases in numbers well beyond that. If we concentrate on doing the right things then some of those actions will have unintended or unanticipated effects which could boost the numbers.

                For instance we are finding that having a bunch of kids that are focused on chess improvement leads to a feedback loop where their friends are also improving as the kids teach each other things to help their school succeed.

                What kind of a budget is there to increase membership?
                At the moment there is no budget but you bring up a very good point. The CFC office is currently set up to administer a declining or stagnant organization. Changes will have to be made if we suddenly become a vibrant growing concern.

                In a thread on the CFC forum Fred McKim estimates the cost of administering a new member at around $10 to $13. The costs per member should drop with larger numbers as much of that cost is assigned overhead which will not go up as fast as the membership numbers. I also anticipate that we will significantly automate or outsource the rating system to reduce the ED time spent on this aspect of the job which apparently is quite significant.

                "One small change in the mechanism of thinking can give chess more than six months of work for work's sake." - Smyslov quote from google translation of Russian Chess Federation website.

                When I was increasing the CCCA membership it cost money.
                It will cost money but it should be manageable and incremental membership fees should more than cover the costs.

                More active members generate more work. That's a fact. Does the CFC have the infrastructure in place to handle that number of members? 10,000 divided by 50 equals 200 governors as one consideration.
                Changes in the whole governance model will be necessary. Two hundred governors would be ridiculously unmanageable.

                Can the CFC compete with the online toys? I wrote here years ago the CFC needed to add a server. They built a web site without a server. Now what's needed is an App for the Apple (and similar) products which will let players get a game any time of day or night simply by being a member. That's the future of chess, in my opinion.
                An online server or a partnership with a current online server provider would definitely be something that should be looked at. A relatively risk-less way to do it would be to make a deal with one of the major online server providers and communities and see what kind of utilization of the provided resources we experienced. Kevin Pacey is one governor who has been pushing for this and trying to put it on the agenda for the rest of the governors.

                The thing is that there is only so much time and resources and people and we are at the point where we need to turn things around and stop declining or being a stagnant organization.

                Competing sports like soccer may have ten thousand people playing in the Windsor area alone. This is accomplished by an army of volunteers, coaches, organizers and parents. They did not always have this level of participation. They built it by building an organization or actually many organizations to support the structure needed.

                I use an APP to play scrabble. I have no idea who I'm playing because I don't even have to sign in. Sometimes the game takes a few days to complete because people play when they have some free time.

                That number of members is realistic and all I'm asking about is the planning.
                A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step and will require many more steps before we reach our goals. It actually begins with choosing a destination and that is where we are at for the moment.

                One thousand CFC members in Windsor and surrounding regions would not be an impossible dream in twenty years given that there are probably 10,000 playing soccer and hockey and tennis and similar organized sports. We have to start doing similar things to the ones that the officials of those sports are already doing before we can hope to enjoy similar numbers of participants. I find that I don't have to sell chess. Most parents and kids are already sold. We have to show them that there is a whole new world of magic lurking beside their ordinary world. They only have to open their eyes and it will be revealed to them and offers them rewards that can last a lifetime.
                Last edited by Vlad Drkulec; Sunday, 20th May, 2012, 02:33 PM.

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                • #9
                  Re: The vision thing

                  Hi Gary

                  Like Vlad says, I have within the past year brought the desire of quite a few chesstalkers for the CFC to have a server, or a deal with a paying one, to the CFC Governors' attention, in at least one thread on the private Governor's discussion forum.

                  Even earlier I discussed the idea of some sort of a deal with a paying server with the OCA Prez, even, who then relayed the thought to the CFC Prez in case it hadn't already occured to him. I don't know if the OCA has as yet ruled out pursuing a deal with a paying server for itself for the foreseeable future.

                  I look forward to Vlad's long-term planning committee report, and perhaps I may see something detailed about the CFC having a server, or at least a deal with a paying one, at some point. An App is certainly possible as a followup idea.

                  My own faith in the idea of the CFC having its own server has wavered recently (though I still like the idea of the CFC having a deal with a paying server). I'm currently looking for a good, convincing argument to continue trying to push for it, after an apparently logical argument not to do so occured to me. I wrote about this negative argument in a different chesstalk thread a number of days ago:

                  ... I recall a past discussion on a chess message board that mentioned that there is cheap software [for a chess server] out there.

                  The question is, why would the CFC spend money on even a cheap server? We apparently can't compete on with other servers if we make such a cheap server a paying one for users, so we'd apparently have to use it exclusively to serve just users who were CFC members, as a benefit of their membership.

                  In that case, how to ever prove that such a server has at least paid for itself, even if membership goes up? For, it might have risen due to other factors. Well, one thing we might be able to do, if the server software we bought wasn't too cheap, is to offer users (i.e. CFC members) bells and whistles within our own server that they could use only if they paid for them.

                  However these would have to be pretty innovative and nifty bells and whistles, otherwise once again we couldn't compete with other chess servers out there. No, I think the only hope that I can see at the moment is that the CFC provided regular CFC rated events on our own server, if we get one, and to do that we need officials/TDs at each terminal that players or teams of players are using to play on our server from. We already plan to do this in the Fall, with the team league that we voted for, but we won't have enough teams or officials to justify buying our own server just for league use, and I suspect it will remain that way for a long time.


                  As I look back on this negative argument, the only weak link it might have, it seems to me at the moment, is in the third paragraph. Perhaps the CFC ought not to demand proof of some sort at any point in the future that a server it has bought is [still] at least paying for itself, so long as the CFC's membership and net revenue had been improved and was currently not declining.
                  Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
                  Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer

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                  • #10
                    Re: The vision thing

                    Good luck bringing the vision to reality.

                    Having played in the juniors so many years ago, I certainly know the benefits of starting young.

                    Technology is moving so fast these days I think chess will have to be made compatible with the technology to keep people interested. We've come a long way from the 5 tube radios.
                    Gary Ruben
                    CC - IA and SIM

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                    • #11
                      Re: The vision thing

                      I think someone should approach ICC and see what kind of deal can be made for 3000 memberships, bearing in mind how many would actively use the server. From there you can set up inter-province tournaments and live posting of games from major tournaments, etc.

                      Far more Canadians play chess online than in CFC tournaments. Offering access to a great server will attract new members faster than anything else.

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                      • #12
                        Re: The vision thing

                        My ICC name is Ambros, feel free to add me.

                        Norm

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                        • #13
                          Re: The vision thing

                          Originally posted by Alan Baljeu View Post
                          Far more Canadians play chess online than in CFC tournaments.
                          True but they dont need the CFC or a CFC server for that. Lots of chess servers out there offering right now services that a CFC server would never be able to offer, assuming it would live long enough for that. To me this server thing is simply some kind of magical thinking. Remember WCN... This is not the way to go for the CFC.

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                          • #14
                            Re: The vision thing

                            I had mentioned WCN in another thread. I don't know how many thousands (millions?) were poured into it before it got bailed out by ICC. Likewise - World Chess Live - originally set up by the USCF, has been absorbed by ICC.

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                            • #15
                              Re: The vision thing

                              i wish they could/would get back into the active tournaments on ICC. living in a (relatively) remote chess area, it was great for me to get one tournament a month in

                              Craig

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