Is the rating system killing chess participation?

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  • #16
    Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

    Originally posted by David Lyall View Post
    More needs to be done to bring "general" players to tournaments. Different sections could accomodate both "serious" and "general" players. Over time the "general" player may move to the "serious" section of a tournament.
    One of the biggest problem that our week-end events have is that all sections have the same "slow" time control. GMs and newcomers do not have the same needs. While the GM can play under any time control, newcomers find long games or long wait between rounds unpleasant to deal with. At least one section in every week-end event should be held under a much faster time control (but slow enough with incrementation to keep score) to accomodate and introduce gently newcomers and young players to organised chess. These sections could be one-day tournaments instead of weekend long events. I know that having two kinds of events at the same location can create some logistic problems, but these must be overcome if we are to become attractive for "recreational" players.

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    • #17
      Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

      Originally posted by Alan Baljeu View Post
      The terms of what contract, Vlad?
      Vlad means the contract between the CFC and the company that provides and staffs the business office.

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      • #18
        Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

        Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
        Our structure and perhaps the contract under which we operate the CFC office may need some fine tuning. Fred McKim indicated that we can't give away discounted or free memberships without making a payment under the terms of the contract.

        A recreational membership at some nominal cost (five dollars preferably or at the most ten dollars per year) is an idea worth considering. In addition preferably a free associate membership for the parents of CFC members is another idea that I have been mulling over. Parents are a very big part of why Windsor is becoming such a chess mecca for junior chess. Parents are key volunteers in many of the local tournaments acting as TDs for the individual sections or as arbiters in the Windsor Chess Challenge, or just operating the pop and chips concession. They also give their kids rides to and from the tournaments (no parents to drive the kids, no kids to play in the tournament) and training sessions. This source of volunteers is largely untapped in the rest of the CFC and would greatly leverage the work of the key volunteers that currently do the bulk of organizing for the CFC.
        I think it would be better worded to say that we would have to negotiate the terms of a significant change in membership fee policy.

        For example if we gave all of the CMA members free CFC memberships, that would put an incredible burden on the office administratively, and they would expect some form of compensation..

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        • #19
          Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

          I guarantee that the CFC would greatly increase membership numbers if they used two rating systems in parallel. The first would be the existing one, and still be used for determining pairings, prizes, etc. in tournaments.

          The second would be the one that the duplicate bridge world has used forever with great success in terms of keeping bridge players keen on the game even though a lot of them are seniors with declining skill as they age. Introduce Master points in chess. This is a system whereby you NEVER lose Master points, you can only gain them. After a long hiatus from the game you reenter with what you left with.

          Serious players would love the present rating system; less serious and weaker players (the majority) would absolutely love and be encouraged by the Master point system. Who would not like to accumulate Master points?

          My wife set up a social planning group at work, and it was like pulling teeth to get people to volunteer for it. She renamed it "The Genius Club" and it was unbelievable how many people volunteered, she had to turn people away. Think of how it looks on your resume to include information on your membership in a group like this.

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          • #20
            Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

            Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
            Who would not like to accumulate Master points?

            Think of how it looks on your resume to include information on your membership in a group like this.

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            • #21
              Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

              Originally posted by Paul Beckwith View Post
              I guarantee that the CFC would greatly increase membership numbers if they used two rating systems in parallel. The first would be the existing one, and still be used for determining pairings, prizes, etc. in tournaments.

              The second would be the one that the duplicate bridge world has used forever with great success in terms of keeping bridge players keen on the game even though a lot of them are seniors with declining skill as they age. Introduce Master points in chess. This is a system whereby you NEVER lose Master points, you can only gain them. After a long hiatus from the game you reenter with what you left with.

              Serious players would love the present rating system; less serious and weaker players (the majority) would absolutely love and be encouraged by the Master point system. Who would not like to accumulate Master points?

              My wife set up a social planning group at work, and it was like pulling teeth to get people to volunteer for it. She renamed it "The Genius Club" and it was unbelievable how many people volunteered, she had to turn people away. Think of how it looks on your resume to include information on your membership in a group like this.
              Excellent suggestion on the Master points. We were hoping for some similar traction from the CFC title system. There was a lot of interest in titles to begin with but I was mainly dealing with NCM and NM titles. I know there was not as much enthusiasm for the titles from certain quarters.

              The Genius Club anecdote is very interesting as well and might be used in some future campaign. Thank you.

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              • #22
                Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                Originally posted by Fred McKim View Post
                I think it would be better worded to say that we would have to negotiate the terms of a significant change in membership fee policy.

                For example if we gave all of the CMA members free CFC memberships, that would put an incredible burden on the office administratively, and they would expect some form of compensation..
                If it causes more work then it is reasonable that there should be extra compensation but it should be in proportion to the work generated. In effect, all of the CMA members already get free CFC memberships in the sense that they can play in junior only events without being CFC members until they get to the national championship CYCC tournament. What additional burden would it put on the office beyond the burden that should be alleviated somewhat by additional rating fees generated by the new members?

                I received a suggestion for an introductory CFC membership for new members of $40 for three years which makes sense from the point of view of considering the lifetime value of a member but its not a ball that I would consider running with based on your previous post that indicated that such a program would require a payment of $45 or $39 (depending on if it was $15 or $13 per year required in the contract).

                Would a nominal cost recreational membership or a free associate membership for parents generate an additional administrative burden on the office?

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                • #23
                  Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                  Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
                  Excellent suggestion on the Master points. We were hoping for some similar traction from the CFC title system. There was a lot of interest in titles to begin with but I was mainly dealing with NCM and NM titles. I know there was not as much enthusiasm for the titles from certain quarters.

                  The Genius Club anecdote is very interesting as well and might be used in some future campaign. Thank you.
                  The CFC ratings already track "Highest Rating" and "Active Highest". How about using this data as a more economical solution?

                  Another idea would be to implement rating floors, as done by the USCF.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                    This contract needs to go. Pay someone for IT services, but not for administration. Have TD's register memberships online. Pay for tournaments and memberships with PayPal.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                      Originally posted by Alan Baljeu View Post
                      This contract needs to go. Pay someone for IT services, but not for administration. Have TD's register memberships online. Pay for tournaments and memberships with PayPal.
                      They already use paypal.

                      Streamlining, automating or outsourcing the administration of the rating system and tournament reporting is a must. You still need someone to run the day to day operations. The problem is that you can't allow yourself to lose flexibility to implement programs that could lead to increased membership due to a rigid contract. If we don't increase membership then the CFC will continue to be one major crisis away from blinking out of existence. Well maybe a few crises as the foundation's resources can be relied on in a pinch.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                        Originally posted by David Filipovich View Post
                        The CFC ratings already track "Highest Rating" and "Active Highest". How about using this data as a more economical solution?

                        Another idea would be to implement rating floors, as done by the USCF.
                        Rating floors in the USCF were, at least in part, a way to combat sandbagging which I don't see as a huge issue in Canada these days.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                          What day to day operations? To my understanding the only routine operation is supporting TD's. That cost shouldn't be tied to the number of members or how they pay. What random member calls the CFC office?

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                          • #28
                            Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                            Originally posted by Alan Baljeu View Post
                            What day to day operations? To my understanding the only routine operation is supporting TD's. That cost shouldn't be tied to the number of members or how they pay. What random member calls the CFC office?
                            TD submits tournament. Not everyone is a member. ED sends TD email. Email exchange ensues. It takes time to compose and send email.

                            Someone wants their NM/NCM or other class certificate. Certificates are sent in batches approximately quarterly. People get impatient looking forward to getting that recognition. They send me an email. I send the CFC office an email forwarding the email sent to me. Someone has to respond.

                            You can't run a federation without some kind of customer service or you won't have members for long. That was how we dropped so many members in the years when the office was a disorganized mess. The office is run in a much more efficient and effective manner these days but there is always room for improvement.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                              Originally posted by Vlad Drkulec View Post
                              TD submits tournament. Not everyone is a member. ED sends TD email. Email exchange ensues. It takes time to compose and send email.

                              Someone wants their NM/NCM or other class certificate. Certificates are sent in batches approximately quarterly. People get impatient looking forward to getting that recognition. They send me an email. I send the CFC office an email forwarding the email sent to me. Someone has to respond.

                              You can't run a federation without some kind of customer service or you won't have members for long. That was how we dropped so many members in the years when the office was a disorganized mess. The office is run in a much more efficient and effective manner these days but there is always room for improvement.
                              Not to forget the interaction with the FIDE office - for submitting paperwork related to upcoming Olympiad and other FIDE-rated matters.
                              ...Mike Pence: the Lord of the fly.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Is the rating system killing chess participation?

                                Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post
                                Not to forget the interaction with the FIDE office - for submitting paperwork related to upcoming Olympiad and other FIDE-rated matters.
                                Our relationship with FIDE is a key strategic resource and strength that needs to be maintained if only to maintain relevance from the point of view of the stronger players (rated 2000+). We could be headed for grief on that front if we don't get our act together.

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