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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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As mentioned in my earlier posts: "Aman Hambleton is in my eyes one of the top junior players in North America."
Congratulations to him.
Congratulations to Mr. Aris on another great tournament.
It is great to see Mr.Robert has changed. When I first encountered him in the early 1990's he was a ruthless arrogant "know it all" drunk. It's great to see that people can change.
Norm
Harsh.
Note also that "Aris" and "Robert" are first names...
Hi chess fans, within a few hours, a brightly coloured PDF of the wall chart for this event, will be posted at the EOCA 2011-2012 Tournaments webpage, in the Dates column : http://www.eoca.org/htm/tournaments_2011-12.html
FIDE already has the tournament added to their July2012 list: here
Can anyone explain to me how players in a FIDE-rated event who don't yet have a FIDE rating are eventually (?) included in the FIDE rating list?
Are their games retroactively rated once the player acquires a (provisional) rating? Or are they never counted?
I've been doing some research on this, and here is a recent post of mine on the Facebook page, Ghana Chess ( with the caveat that I am not a TD ):
Getting a FIDE Rating
There are three conditions to be met:
1. The “ Norm “ - in a swiss ( can be round robin as well, but special rules apply ) where you play three opponents who are FIDE rated, and score one point against them ( a win or 2 draws ), you achieve a " norm ", and these first three games go towards a total of 9 FIDE opponent games you must get to have your rating published on the FIDE List. In the meantime, a FIDE rating page is started for you, and shows " part result ".
2. The Total Games - After you have achieved this performance rating norm, all games played against FIDE rated players, regardless of result or number of games in a single tournament, will count towards your initial rating. The first 9 games MUST be played within a 2-year period
This means that you don't have to achieve any subsequent " norms " - just the first one. In a second tournament, you can play only 1 FIDE rated player, and lose ( get 0 pts. ) and yet that game will be counted as game # 4 among the needed 9. Similarly you could play your next tournament, and face 5 FIDE rated opponents, and lose all, and you would have then achieved your 9 games total, and FIDE would publish your rating.
3. The Established FIDE Rating ( I have been having trouble verifying this condition in the Handbook - any help on this would be appreciated - where is this Provisional/Established distinction set out? ) - After 9 games, a PROVISIONAL FIDE rating will be displayed on the FIDE site. After 30 games, the rating stops being provisional, and becomes established, and the K factor to calculate rating, decreases from 30 to 15.
Note: because of the uncertaintly of # 3, there is an issue of whether the players a non-FIDE rated player plays, to get his games, have to have an " established " FIDE rating. In other words, your opponent just having a published " provisional " rating will not be good enough to make the games count - we cannot yet verify anywhere that this is true.
There was a second part to my question that I guess I didn't make clear. When I asked, "Are their games retroactively rated once the player acquires a (provisional) rating? Or are they never counted?" I also wanted to know if their opponents' ratings would be recalculated based on the result of their games with the previously FIDE-unrated player who has achieved the necessary number of FIDE-rated games.
In the background of my question is something I noticed about a year ago. I'd scored around 50% in my FIDE rated events in Ottawa. But when I looked at my page on the FIDE site I found that I'd "scored" around minus 8 in the games they rated. That was because they didn't rate the games I played (and usually won) against players without FIDE ratings.
If that's a FIDE policy --- and if they never get around to recalculating ratings from games played between players with FIDE ratings and those who were in the process of getting them --- this might (partly) explain why FIDE ratings for improving Canadian players are so much lower than their CFC ratings.
Based on your answer... I think it will be too difficult for me to figure out FIDE's practice on this. :o
Last edited by John Upper; Thursday, 7th June, 2012, 01:29 AM.
FIDE Does NOT Use " Provisional " / " Established " Ratings
I have now determined that the third questionable condition for a FIDE rating, set out above, is not correct. I have now consulted Canadian IA Hal Bond, and he has advised that there is no distinction in the FIDE Handbook between a " provisional " and an " established " FIDE rating. There is just a " published " FIDE rating. It is true however, that after 30 games, the players K factor changes from 30 to 15.
I have now determined that the third questionable condition for a FIDE rating, set out above, is not correct. I have now consulted Canadian IA Hal Bond, and he has advised that there is no distinction in the FIDE Handbook between a " provisional " and an " established " FIDE rating. There is just a " published " FIDE rating. It is true however, that after 30 games, the players K factor changes from 30 to 15.
Bob A
But I think the timing of when it is published has an effect. Provisional ratings (having played 9 or more ratable games) are shown on the FIDE website but don't come into effect until the day of publication of the official rating list the next month, hence those players are treated as unrated.
from the FIDE handbook:
8.3 The Rating Rn which is to be published for a previously unrated player is then determined as if the new player had played all his games so far in one tournament. The initial rating is calculated using the total score against all opponents.
8.4 If an unrated player receives a published rating before a particular tournament in which he has played is rated, then he is rated as a rated player with his current rating, but in the rating of his opponents he is counted as an unrated player.
8.5 Determining the rating change for a rated player
8.52
If the opponent is unrated, then the rating is determined at the end of the event. This applies only to round-robin tournaments. In the Swiss tournaments the games against unrated opponents are not rated.
8.53
The provisional ratings of unrated players obtained from earlier tournaments are ignored.
Last edited by Erik Malmsten; Thursday, 7th June, 2012, 03:09 PM.
Reason: added 9 games
I let me emotions get the best of me that day. In all honesty, my comments were not meant to be derogatory.
Like I said before, my comments were intended to be a compliment, but people took it the wrong way. My analogy is: Let's say someone has a bad smoking habit, it is only natural for you to comment on their old smoking habit and congratulation them on quitting. That was all I was intending to do.
I hope we can put this issue behind us and grow as a community.
Again, my sincere apologies if I have offended anyone.
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