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From the following move list if Blacks goal is to hold on to the C4 pawn, is there a sequence of moves that will allow Black to accomplish this goal?
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e6 b5 4.a4 ?
The reason I ask is that I have witnessed an expert blitz player make heroic efforts as black to hold onto the c4 pawn.
I guess you meant 3. e3?
I do not play 1. d4, but after 4. a4, Black doesn't have much ways to keep the pawn. Of course, he can always go for 4... c6 5. axb5 cxb5 6. Qf3, keeping the pawn at the cost of at least a piece :D
Black should simply not go for 3... b5? and instead play 3... Nf6 or 3... e5
I have seen the expert blitz player use the black c8 bishop in his combination of moves to save the black c4 pawn. I have forgotten the sequence of moves where he inserts the black bishop.
After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dc4 3.e3 b5 4.a4 c6 5.ab5 Black can play 5...Be6 giving back the gambit pawn, but after 6.bc6 Nc6 7.Nf3 White has pawn supremacy in the centre and Black's two Q-side pawns are weak. Fritz evaluates the position as +- (winning advantage for White). Of course, things are not quite that simple in blitz!
is there a sequence of moves that will allow Black to accomplish this goal?
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e6 b5 4.a4 ?
The reason I ask is that I have witnessed an expert blitz player make heroic efforts as black to hold onto the c4 pawn.
Let's consult Rybka:
[1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3 (actually 3. Nf3 {is the main line. White is not worried about regaining his pawn right away since black will have to pay too much for it.}) 3... b5 4. a4 c6 (4... a6 5. axb5 axb5?? (5... Bb7 6. Nc3 Nd7 7. bxa6 Bxa6 8. Nf3 +=) 6. Rxa8+-) (4... bxa4 5. Qxa4+ Bd7 6. Qxc4 += {white has his pawn back with a distinct advantage since he is in control of the center and is better developed.}) 5. axb5 cxb5?? 6. Qf3 +- {as black's rook will die.} Qc7 7. Qxa8 Bb7 8. Qxa7
1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 dxc4 4.a4 Nf6 5.e3 Be6!? (there are lots of different move orders to reach this position)
Personally I think this is not so bad and I have played it a couple of times in tournament games. I seem to recall that the book Dangerous Weapons: The Queen's Gambit has a chapter on this. It's good in blitz because 6.Ng5 can be answered by 6...Qa5+ bagging the N. ;-)
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Ken Kurkowkski's position comes very close to the position I remember. The only exception would be that the blitz player that I am referring to manages not to be down any pawns while holding on to the C4 square as black.
I was wondering if someone could list a series(without sidelines) of moves where black can hold on to the c4 square and white does not make any opening mistakes. If all the marbles are on the line, can black hold on to the C4 square?
1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 a6 4.e4 b5 5.a4 Bb7 6.axb5 axb5 7.Rxa8 Bxa8 8.Nc3 c6 when Black seems able to keep the pawn, although his position is rather unpleasant to play (in my opinion).
My library of chess books doesn't have many that cover the QGA well, but I noticed one book I've borrowed (Starting Out: Queen's Gambit Accepted) did mention a playable line for Black that involves trying to hold onto his extra pawn (again, let me stress, as others have, that in the QGA Black can only do so with White's consent).
It goes 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e3 (I would note that I'm sure White could just play 3.Nf3 and insist on eventually regaining his lost pawn, if he wishes, though the details can be a bit complex) 3...Be6 (This move is not mentioned in other books I have).
Now the Starting Out: QGA book gives only 4.Ne2!, calling Black's previous move rather risky. Then it gives as best: 4...b5 5.b3!? cxb3 6.axb3, with good compensation for White.
I haven't studied what might happen if White plays 4.Nf3 instead, but I imagine, just thinking briefly about it, after 4...b5 5.a4 c6 it might be game on, as far as Black trying grimly to hang onto his extra pawn.
I seem to recall very vaguely someone playing 3...Be6 against me in blitz a number of times decades ago, in Ottawa, when I played the natural 4.Nf3 (instead of the move 4.Ne2 that I mentioned above). After Black's unnatural previous move, my natural reply may even be a slight error, if not just a second rate or interesting alternative to the equally unnatural reply 4.Ne2!.
Sometimes (often?) the best reply to a strange move is another strange move. Chess can be a sort of mutually corrupting game, as far as violating principles goes. :)
Last edited by Kevin Pacey; Monday, 16th July, 2012, 05:33 PM.
Reason: Spelling
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
I got around to checking the line 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e3 Be6 more extensively. It appears many times in my databases.
The first thing I think I should add to my previous post is that White can regain his pawn without difficulty if he plays 4.Na3 or 4.Nd2, though in these cases at least Black can draw some comfort from having inconvenienced the N/b1 slightly.
The second thing I wish to add is that after 4.Nf3 (even 4.Nc3 has been played) I have seen examples with Black playing 4...c6 (but not ...b5, which is also true after 5.a4).
I also checked my original suggestion of 3...Be6 4.Nf3 b5 5.a4 c6 with a computer:
Here I found out that Black simply could not keep his pawn in the event of 6.axb5 cxb5 7.Nc3
For some time it seemed to me that Black was easily much worse, if not close to lost. However I did make many attempts at converting Black's momentary extra pawn into some other asset (remember, extra material in chess is not to be glorified at the expense of all else), or at least into a playable game for him. The best hope I seem to have found so far for Black is the line 7...Qb6 8.Ng5 Nf6 9.Nxe6 fxe6 10.b3 b4 11.Na4 Qc6 12.bxc4 Nbd7
Black still may well be clearly worse, at least to some degree, but he has some possible assets still, besides the liability of his doubled e-pawns. In one case I looked at, it seemed prudent later to eventually sacrifice one of these pawns (after ...e5), in order to develop the kingside without a fianchetto (which might provoke a dangerous h2-h4 advance).
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
The line very much in vogue now is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e4 b5 4.a4 c6 5.Nc3 a6 6.axb5 cxb5 7.Nxb5 axb5 8.Rxa8 Bb7 9.Ra1 e6. Nakamura has played it several times, including his crush of Adhiban in R5 at Gibraltar. Romain Edouard also got a lovely win with this same line in R10 yesterday against Lela Javakhishvili who played the more critical 10.f3.
Edouard was interviewed by Simon Williams immediately after his win and Romain ventured the opinion that White could likely hold a draw with perfect play but Black definitely has the much 'easier' game, despite the computer's evaluation (my Houdini says plus 0.52). Simon thought it was Romain who had first develop Black's ideas in this line but Romain said the credit should go to Alexander Donchenko, the 16-year-old German wonderkid.
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