Can anybody help with Portuguese?

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  • Can anybody help with Portuguese?

    I am trying to decipher on the web an article originally written by Alekhine in French, but later translated in Portuguese… and I do not know Portuguese… using translating tools on the web I managed to understand most of it, but there are really hard excerpts… can anybody help?

    1) Quanto ao ataque tem-se, necessáriamente, um ideal e, por
    consequência, sacrifica-se voluntariamente.
    2) Quando se defende, não é certo que se tenha um ideal (porque a ideia auto-defensiva não é, certamente, um) e muitas vezes somos sacrificados sem saber porque.
    Por consequência, a defesa não deve, não pode,e preciso é dizer (no Xadrez, evidentemente, onde a posição inicial é igual) deriva de um erro ulterior.

    1) as for the attack it is had, necessárily, an ideal and, for consequence, it is sacrificed voluntarily.
    2) when one defends, it is not right that one had an ideal (because the idea solemnity-defensive is not, certainly, one) and a lot of times are sacrificed without knowing because.
    For consequence, the defense doesn't owe, it is not able to, and I need is to say (in Chess, evidently, where the initial position is equal) drift of a further mistake.

    Can anyone translate this in plain English, especially the last paragraph?

    1.e2-e4 c7-c5
    2.Cg1-f3 e7-e6
    3.Bf1-e2 g7-g6?
    4.0-0 Bf8-g7
    5.Cb1-c3 a7-a6
    6.e4-e5?
    Igualmente, um lance patusco

    Lance means move, but what is patusco? I cannot find this word anywhere.
    ????

    Eu tive altos e baixos, períodos de vigor, outros de depressão. Mas creio poder afirmar e isto independentemente da minha personalidade – que, finalmente, estamos chegando ao porto, o Xadrez – os princípios do Xadrez vivem e eles viverão.

    I had high and low, energy periods, others of depression. But I believe to affirm and this independently of my personality. that, finally, we are arriving to the port, the Chess. the beginnings of the Chess live and they will live.
    ????

    Seria verdadeiramente que Staunton – esse “príncipe” das trevas o fosse?
    Would it truly be that Staunton. did that "prince" of the darkness go him?
    ????

  • #2
    Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

    The name Patusca is related to the adjective patusco, which means "fun-loving, funny, extravagant." Hope that helps...
    No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

      Have you tried pasting it into this translator?

      http://translate.google.com/?tl=fr&q=undefined#auto|en|
      Gary Ruben
      CC - IA and SIM

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

        Originally posted by Gary Ruben View Post
        Have you tried pasting it into this translator?

        http://translate.google.com/?tl=fr&q=undefined#auto|en|
        err...what part of "using translating tools on the web I managed to understand most of it" did you not see?

        Anyways, being a poker whore has given me access to people who speak any language in the world, so let's take advantage:

        1) Quanto ao ataque tem-se, necessáriamente, um ideal e, por
        consequência, sacrifica-se voluntariamente.

        -> Regarding the attack, it is required an idea, as a consequence, a voluntary sacrifice.

        2) Quando se defende, não é certo que se tenha um ideal (porque a ideia auto-defensiva não é, certamente, um) e muitas vezes somos sacrificados sem saber porque. Por consequência, a defesa não deve, não pode,e preciso é dizer (no Xadrez, evidentemente, onde a posição inicial é igual) deriva de um erro ulterior.

        -> When you are in defence, you probably do not have an idea,( because the idea of auto-defence, it is not necessary an idea) and many times we are sacrificed on without knowing why. As a consequence, the defence must not, cannot (have an idea). It is needed to say that (on chess, evidently, where the initial position is the same) it comes from a previous mistake.

        3) Igualmente, um lance patusco

        -> Likewise, a comic situation. (also a bit funny)

        The person I talked to said the writing was extremely strange and didn't know anything about chess so this was her best effort.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

          Originally posted by David Ottosen View Post
          ...being a poker whore...
          David,

          I've never heard of a "poker whore". I have, however, heard of a "bridge whore"... they get paid by the trick ;)

          Jordan
          No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

            Originally posted by Jordan S. Berson View Post
            David,

            I've never heard of a "poker whore". I have, however, heard of a "bridge whore"... they get paid by the trick ;)

            Jordan
            Poker whores are all male, and they always end up going "all in".
            Only the rushing is heard...
            Onward flies the bird.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

              Originally posted by Jordan S. Berson View Post
              I've never heard of a "poker whore".
              You need to read more of Gary "The Curling Whore" Ruben's posts. Or maybe I need to read less.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re : Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

                Thanks to everyone, your comments were very helpful.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

                  Originally posted by Louis Morin View Post
                  I am trying to decipher on the web an article originally written by Alekhine in French, but later translated in Portuguese… and I do not know Portuguese… using translating tools on the web I managed to understand most of it, but there are really hard excerpts… can anybody help?

                  1) Quanto ao ataque tem-se, necessáriamente, um ideal e, por
                  consequência, sacrifica-se voluntariamente.
                  2) Quando se defende, não é certo que se tenha um ideal (porque a ideia auto-defensiva não é, certamente, um) e muitas vezes somos sacrificados sem saber porque.
                  Por consequência, a defesa não deve, não pode,e preciso é dizer (no Xadrez, evidentemente, onde a posição inicial é igual) deriva de um erro ulterior.

                  1) as for the attack it is had, necessárily, an ideal and, for consequence, it is sacrificed voluntarily.
                  2) when one defends, it is not right that one had an ideal (because the idea solemnity-defensive is not, certainly, one) and a lot of times are sacrificed without knowing because.
                  For consequence, the defense doesn't owe, it is not able to, and I need is to say (in Chess, evidently, where the initial position is equal) drift of a further mistake.

                  Can anyone translate this in plain English, especially the last paragraph?

                  1.e2-e4 c7-c5
                  2.Cg1-f3 e7-e6
                  3.Bf1-e2 g7-g6?
                  4.0-0 Bf8-g7
                  5.Cb1-c3 a7-a6
                  6.e4-e5?
                  Igualmente, um lance patusco

                  Lance means move, but what is patusco? I cannot find this word anywhere.
                  ????

                  Eu tive altos e baixos, períodos de vigor, outros de depressão. Mas creio poder afirmar e isto independentemente da minha personalidade – que, finalmente, estamos chegando ao porto, o Xadrez – os princípios do Xadrez vivem e eles viverão.

                  I had high and low, energy periods, others of depression. But I believe to affirm and this independently of my personality. that, finally, we are arriving to the port, the Chess. the beginnings of the Chess live and they will live.
                  ????

                  Seria verdadeiramente que Staunton – esse “príncipe” das trevas o fosse?
                  Would it truly be that Staunton. did that "prince" of the darkness go him?
                  ????
                  Hi,

                  You got pretty accurate translation from Ottosen in the first couple points.
                  This is portuguese from Brasil and to me the way it is written seems a little bit... unusual.

                  In any case, after the game moves...

                  "os princípios do Xadrez vivem e eles viverão."
                  principios may also mean 'basics' or even 'principles' (in chess)

                  "Seria verdadeiramente que Staunton – esse “príncipe” das trevas o fosse?"
                  Was it true that / could it be that Staunton --

                  Now the second part seems a bit off.
                  Principe das trevas / prince of darkness would be the devil.

                  I am unclear if the question asks if he was the devil simply...
                  Though grammatically there seems to be something missing, as in...

                  " ... Staunton - that devil was (such, what?)"

                  Where "fosse" is a conditional of the verb 'to go' normally but in this case it is from the verb 'to be'.

                  ie:
                  Se a Maria fosse mae, ela compreenderia.
                  If Maria was a mother, she would understand. -- but what? like in the Staunton example above, it seems to be missing a reference. -- unless in Brasil it's acceptable that the grammar is shortened and they meant Staunton was a devil / prince of darkness.

                  Hope that helps,


                  Alex F.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re : Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

                    Originally posted by Alex Ferreira View Post
                    This is portuguese from Brasil and to me the way it is written seems a little bit... unusual.
                    This is funny, because this comes from a lecture given in French by Alekhine in Portugal, and then translated by Rui Nascimento, a Portuguese chess master. Here is the link:

                    http://www.angelfire.com/planet/aspa...MO_SEGREDO.pdf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Re : Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

                      Well that showed me :)
                      In any case, the way certain things are written / seem out of context, are grammatically offbeat, led me to assume such.
                      I skimmed through that document. Interesting comments. I shared it with my mother who has taught portuguese and she claims some of the vocabulary used is quite out of date, unless that's how chess is treated in Portugal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re : Re: Re : Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

                        Originally posted by Alex Ferreira View Post
                        Well that showed me :)
                        In any case, the way certain things are written / seem out of context, are grammatically offbeat, led me to assume such.
                        I skimmed through that document. Interesting comments. I shared it with my mother who has taught portuguese and she claims some of the vocabulary used is quite out of date, unless that's how chess is treated in Portugal.
                        Mr, Nascimento put this document on Internet only a few years ago, but I assume it was translated as far away as 1941. Also Mr. Nascimento is not a translator, and his real knowledge of French is unknown, so all he could do is his "best effort".

                        Anyway, since this lecture was really written by Alekhine and is completely impossible to find otherwise, I decided to translate it in French for the FQE magazine. Maybe somebody could do the same in English for the CFC webzine? In this way not only Portuguese players could read it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Re : Re: Re : Re: Can anybody help with Portuguese?

                          Originally posted by Louis Morin View Post
                          I assume it was translated as far away as 1941.
                          It would explain a lot what Alex wrote.

                          Comment

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