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While as a fellow Yugoslav I greatly admire Gligoric I do not admire his communist politics. You can admire him as a chessplayer without supporting his communist ideals. So Unless of course the FBI was right and every chess player like Fischer falls under the spell of communism through chess.
So for the great chess thanks Gligoric. For the wrong headed political ideals that lead to summary executions and imprisonment on Yugoslavia's version of Devil's Island post WW2 and that also ultimately put Yugoslavia under a dictatorship that ultimately lead to a bloody 3 way civil war yet again - no thanks, you were one of those that lead our country down the wrong path of disaster. His politics have long ago been discredited.
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I am not sure a chessplayer's political leanings are all that important (even Fischer's ranting and raving is often conveniently overlooked by chess historians) and I see Chessbase here:
says "The chess world will miss this great human being."
Many times people cannot take the high road for various reasons that were seemingly valid *at the time or in their estimation of the situation*. Historians and other pundits are often quick to judge with the benefit of hindsight and much more information.
Many times people cannot take the high road for various reasons that were seemingly valid *at the time or in their estimation of the situation*. Historians and other pundits are often quick to judge with the benefit of hindsight and much more information.
More than one Grandmaster's chess career has effectively ended just for saying things that were not agreeable to their government.
It's hard living in Canada to imagine what it's like not being allowed to speak your mind. And I mean *really* not being allowed; here you might get sued for saying something, elsewhere you might vanish - or worse!
I am not sure a chessplayer's political leanings are all that important (even Fischer's ranting and raving is often conveniently overlooked by chess historians) and I see Chessbase here:
says "The chess world will miss this great human being."
Many times people cannot take the high road for various reasons that were seemingly valid *at the time or in their estimation of the situation*. Historians and other pundits are often quick to judge with the benefit of hindsight and much more information.
True but what I was reacting to was Frank's lauding of both Gligoric as a chessplayer and Gligoric's ideology. It is as if someone prasied Fisher as a chessplayer and then also praised his anti-Semitic views all in one go.
Would you say Kasparov's political leanings are all that important right now? Because that is what he seems to be all about right now and using his status as a chess player to draw attention to them.
True but what I was reacting to was Frank's lauding of both Gligoric as a chessplayer and Gligoric's ideology. It is as if someone prasied Fisher as a chessplayer and then also praised his anti-Semitic views all in one go.
Would you say Kasparov's political leanings are all that important right now? Because that is what he seems to be all about right now and using his status as a chess player to draw attention to them.
I guess my point is that a chessplayer may have political views (no surprise there) just like anyone else, but their political views should not carry more weight just because they are a (good or great) chess player.
I see similar misguided affiliation with actors/actresses - I personally don't understand why anyone would care what any actor's view on vaccination might be; to blindly follow their lead because they are a famous actor (or, for that matter, a great chessplayer) is folly. Unfortunately, there are far too many people who emulate 'famous' people for no reason other than their fame.
I have no problem with Kasparov using his recognition in Russia (via chess) to publicize his platform - it doesn't look like it is working at the moment but it may never really have had a realistic chance anyway.
Could you provide details? What does it mean "active propagator of a repressive communist dictatorship"? Any examples? Did he endorse executions and imprisonment?
From Chessbase website article on Gligoric today:
"The Serbian Prime Minister Ivica Dačić sent a telegram of condolences to the Serbian Chess Federation, saying that "Svetozar Gligorić was a legend, his passing is a great loss for Serbia." The Minister of Youth and Sports Alisa Marić sent condolences to the Serbian Chess Federation with the words: "On behalf of the Ministry of Youth and Sports, and on my personal behalf, I extend my condolences and deep sorrow over the death of the greatest Serbian chess player of all time, and above all precious and noble man, Grandmaster Svetozar Gligorić. Our Gliga brought the world fame to the Yugoslav and Serbian chess, and was a teacher and role model for the generations of young chess players. It was an honor to know him for decades and learn from him."
Grandmaster Ljubomir Ljubojević, himself a chess legend, said: "The death of our Gliga shook me deeply. Gliga was magnificent chess personality and one of my role models. His sensibility for the art, culture and chess, along with the results that he achieved, made our country a chess superpower throughout the decades. Gligorić's immense love for the music is telling about the broadness and richness of his character. I am really hoping and believe that he embraced his final moments with that melody that he perfected with such passion. With the departure of the 20th century giant the chess world remains dismal. Eternel glory for our dear Gliga."
Finally, Boris Spassky sent us the following note: "I have just received the sad news concerning Gliga's departure from this world. We have always been good friends, for he was one of my mentors. We participated in many tournaments together. I express my heartfelt sympathy for Gliga's disappearance, which for me is a great and irreplaceable loss, for he was truly a well-intentioned and well-meaning person.""
The Serbian Prime Minister Ivica Dačić sent a telegram of condolences to the Serbian Chess Federation, saying that "Svetozar Gligorić was a legend, his passing is a great loss for Serbia." The Minister of Youth and Sports Alisa Marić sent condolences to the Serbian Chess Federation with the words: "On behalf of the Ministry of Youth and Sports, and on my personal behalf, I extend my condolences and deep sorrow over the death of the greatest Serbian chess player of all time, and above all precious and noble man, Grandmaster Svetozar Gligorić. Our Gliga brought the world fame to the Yugoslav and Serbian chess, and was a teacher and role model for the generations of young chess players. It was an honor to know him for decades and learn from him."
Grandmaster Ljubomir Ljubojević, himself a chess legend, said: "The death of our Gliga shook me deeply. Gliga was magnificent chess personality and one of my role models. His sensibility for the art, culture and chess, along with the results that he achieved, made our country a chess superpower throughout the decades. Gligorić's immense love for the music is telling about the broadness and richness of his character. I am really hoping and believe that he embraced his final moments with that melody that he perfected with such passion. With the departure of the 20th century giant the chess world remains dismal. Eternel glory for our dear Gliga."
Finally, Boris Spassky sent us the following note: "I have just received the sad news concerning Gliga's departure from this world. We have always been good friends, for he was one of my mentors. We participated in many tournaments together. I express my heartfelt sympathy for Gliga's disappearance, which for me is a great and irreplaceable loss, for he was truly a well-intentioned and well-meaning person."
I guess my point is that a chessplayer may have political views (no surprise there) just like anyone else, but their political views should not carry more weight just because they are a (good or great) chess player.
I see similar misguided affiliation with actors/actresses - I personally don't understand why anyone would care what any actor's view on vaccination might be; to blindly follow their lead because they are a famous actor (or, for that matter, a great chessplayer) is folly. Unfortunately, there are far too many people who emulate 'famous' people for no reason other than their fame.
I have no problem with Kasparov using his recognition in Russia (via chess) to publicize his platform - it doesn't look like it is working at the moment but it may never really have had a realistic chance anyway.
Originally posted by Laurentiu GrigorescuView Post
Could you provide details? What does it mean "active propagator of a repressive communist dictatorship"? Any examples? Did he endorse executions and imprisonment?
Could I provide details? Could you perhaps study the history before making comment? I'll say again that Gligoric was an ardent communist and that he was a partisan under Tito during WW2. Active propogator means he was part of the forces that made Yugoslavia communist, put Tito in power as dictator for life and always followed what Tito dictated. If someone was a Nazi member and soldier under Hitler would you be questioning what I mean by 'active propogator'? You probably personally don't care what happened in Yugoslavia but I happen to care very much and I unfortunately cannot dismiss Tito's regime so easily.
The whole communist party of Yugoslavia endorsed Tito's actions or do you think they just thought it was some kind of conincidence that all of their colleagues that had voted to remain under Soviet alliance/control had disappeared over night
I suggest you study some Yugoslav history because I don't have the time personally to educate you about such a large and important topic. At the very least read Frank's comments again.
Last edited by Zeljko Kitich; Friday, 17th August, 2012, 02:39 AM.
Although this post is way off-topic from the original Gligoric RIP thread, it does continue the discussion flowing from the end of that thread.
McCarthyism and the coordinated (by the FBI under J. Edgar Hoover) attack on the left in the U.S. in the late 1940s and early 1950s put many left-leaning entertainment people in trouble, because some of them had in fact associated with suspected spies. The so-called VENONA investigations (deriving from intercepted Soviet transmissions originating in the U.S. during World War II, some of which were broken, gave the FBI and NSA leads on perhaps thousands of potential spies, some of which were caught and eventually convicted, such as the Rosenbergs and Alger Hiss) led to investigations on a massive scale, including questioning of associates of suspects. If someone, for example, had directed a movie deemed to be too radical by the FBI, that person was harassed and placed under surveillance in many cases, with their friends being interviewed by the FBI. The famous case of the 'Hollywood Ten' concerned the systematic blacklisting of certain Hollywood personalities during this period, essentially ending their careers. So, the issue became politicized in an enormous way, and beginning with Adlai Stevenson's Democratic presidential campaigns of 1952 and 1956, organized efforts were made to enlist the support of Hollywood stars. Even before that, actress Lauren Bacall and her husband Humphrey Bogart had helped President Harry Truman with his campaign in the 1940s (have you ever seen the famous picture of Bacall, with crossed legs prominently but tastefully displayed, perched on top of a piano while Truman played!? It caused a minor scandal at the time, but in politics most publicity is good publicity!). Both major American parties have done it for decades. The situation became ridiculous when carried to the extreme, as Ronald Reagan, who was originally a Democratic Party supporter, converted to the Republican Party, successfully ran for Governor of California with the help of significant funding from the Hollywood community, then was eventually elected President in both 1980 and 1984. Then we have had actor Arnold Schwartzenegger also elected as Californian governor via this route; the so-called 'Governator' resigned in disgrace after his love-child scandal was broken by the press.
The phenomenon has not manifested itself in Canada to the same extent as south of the border. Thank goodness for that. Here we have retired hockey players (Frank Mahovlich) and coaches (Jean Perron) appointed to the Senate! :) :)
Then we have had actor Arnold Schwartzenegger also elected as Californian governor via this route; the so-called 'Governator' resigned in disgrace after his love-child scandal was broken by the press.
Please check the timeline (He did not resign. His term was over. The scandal started after several months.)
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