Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

[John Brown]

ertyuiopasdfghjkl

[Jordan S. Berson]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

I completely agree with you. A club where I used to play started gradually losing adults when kids were introduced to the club tournaments for the very reasons you describe.

Part of what I teach my students who are tournament ready is etiquette, regardless of whether it's a scholastic event or otherwise. I know a few other coaches who do the same.

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

You forgot "Run and talk to their coach or parents after every move"

Although, to be fair, the coach and/or parents should be discouraging that too.
And I haven't seen it as much lately visiting events as I used to.
And some adults do this as well.

Does anyone know if there is a good resource (internet site best, a book would be good too) about tournament etiquette? Or is it just a bunch of guidelines that are just handed down from person to person?

Most of what you have listed is not strictly against the rules unless done intentionally to distract (hard to prove) or repeatedly (damage is potentially done). So the rules aren't that much of a help.

[John Brown]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[Vlad Dobrich]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

Tha coaches should teach the kids: "The best way to disrupt an opponent is to make a very strong move quietly!" :)

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

I believe that John is deeply accurate when he concludes that some adults are starting to avoid chess tournaments precisely because of such mis-behaviour by some juniors.

One of my recent games featured 10 draw offers, including the classic hand in my face, during my time, when I was in time trouble. I am sure we all have stories like this! :(

However, we know that it is not all juniors, but just a subset of them. So, the solution is not to ban based on age. However, maybe we should become a lot more immediate on applying penalties. I cringe to apply a forfeit, as that also ends the game for the other player, who often just wants to play a full game, but would it modify behaviours fast?!

One thing that I would like to try this coming season, is an etiquette mini-session before the first round. I am looking for feedback on this, but I would like to have a way to make it pseudo-mandatory. My anecdotal experience is that the latest arriving juniors can be the ones who end up costing us the most returning members. Any thoughts on this idea?

P.S. As a TD, I have also found that the worst adult players for etiquette, even for rules knowledge like always writing your moves since there is a 30-second increment, are the players that arrive late, and therefore miss the announcements before the first round. Maybe the solution is to have a zero-time late-arrival in place for just the first round?! ;)

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

However, we know that it is not all juniors, but just a subset of them. So, the solution is not to ban based on age. However, maybe we should become a lot more immediate on applying penalties. I cringe to apply a forfeit, as that also ends the game for the other player, who often just wants to play a full game, but would it modify behaviours fast?!

I'm not really sure what the answer is... but in a SD/90+30 game a 5 minute time penalty could be seen as a slightly more severe warning... somewhat like a shot across the bow. If they are under 10 minutes just give 5 to the opponent instead.

One thing that I would like to try this coming season, is an etiquette mini-session before the first round. I am looking for feedback on this, but I would like to have a way to make it pseudo-mandatory. My anecdotal experience is that the latest arriving juniors can be the ones who end up costing us the most returning members. Any thoughts on this idea?

This would probably work well with my idea posted previously in this thread. Perhaps a survey is in order, something like find the 10 or 20 most common things that happen?

P.S. As a TD, I have also found that the worst adult players for etiquette, even for rules knowledge like always writing your moves since there is a 30-second increment, are the players that arrive late, and therefore miss the announcements before the first round. Maybe the solution is to have a zero-time late-arrival in place for just the first round?! ;)

I always liked posting a one-page "tournament rules" sheet right by the pairings and standings, with no more than 5 items so that people might actually read them. Unfortunately, 1st round is when people are most likely to be late and sometimes through no or little fault of their own (accident on the highway, no parking to be found, big lineup for coffee, etc).

[Aris Marghetis]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

I always liked posting a one-page "tournament rules" sheet right by the pairings and standings, with no more than 5 items so that people might actually read them. Unfortunately, 1st round is when people are most likely to be late and sometimes through no or little fault of their own (accident on the highway, no parking to be found, big lineup for coffee, etc).

Hi Chris, thanks. Your "posted sheet" idea sounds good, but unfortunately, it seems very few people read them, lol! At the recent Chessfest, before one of the rounds, Hal did a very good quick presentation on etiquette, and the audience was attentive and captive.

I just need to find the right timing to have the most effective attention spans. Another issue I forgot is really younger kids running around between rounds, just being kids! ;)

[Egidijus Zeromskis]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

I can see now why some older players are starting to avoid events where juniors participate.

I'm sure I'll be labelled " the grumpy old man " after this post.

Those grumpy players should ask an organizer for a special "Senior" section. Maybe Alex F. would accommodate you in the Labour Day event

[Jack Maguire]

Re : Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

To sound a dissonant note, I'd generally much rather be paired with a junior than an adult. The junior is far more likely to be punctual, far less likely to have a cell phone go off, isn't going to disappear for a smoke break, and isn't going to come to the table reeking of tobacco or even alcohol.

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

Hi Chris, thanks. Your "posted sheet" idea sounds good, but unfortunately, it seems very few people read them, lol! At the recent Chessfest, before one of the rounds, Hal did a very good quick presentation on etiquette, and the audience was attentive and captive.

Oh, true, people won't read them sometimes, but then at least you avoid an argument about whether or not it's actually a rule - it's posted in writing on the wall where they *should* have read it! :)

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Re : Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

Funniest thing that ever happened to me was someone bringing the absolute stinkiest green tea of all time to the board with him. He never drank it either, just let it sit there stinking.

Of course, I learned competitive chess in a lunchtime high school chess club, so stinky (and noisy) does not bother me! :)

[Tyler Longo]

Re: Re : Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

+1. I really think the original post in this thread should be directed at everyone, not just juniors. Believe it or not, I've played just as many disruptive adults than juniors (maybe more). Granted, I'm probably the most easily distracted person in the world...

Some good ideas in this thread though.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Re : Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

Funniest thing that ever happened to me was someone bringing the absolute stinkiest green tea of all time to the board with him. He never drank it either, just let it sit there stinking.

Maybe he wanted you to drink the tea. :)

[Christopher Mallon]

Re: Re : Should unruly and disruptive juniors play in CFC Rated, Cash Prize events?

Maybe he wanted you to drink the tea. :)

If anyone ever wants to poison me they'll have to use a hot chocolate. And I'm taking about one of those nice premium ones from Second Cup, not the fake Timmies stuff!

Just FYI :)