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I would be shocked if there were even 2000 players in Canada who would be 2000+ strength (i.e. could maintain a rating in OTB standard tournament chess of 2000 or greater).
Actually, quite a few players are 2000+ in correspondence chess or blitz, but a lot weaker in OTB standard tournament chess...
Actually, quite a few players are 2000+ in correspondence chess or blitz, but a lot weaker in OTB standard tournament chess...
Right. To be clear:
- OTB 2000+ only
- standard time controls only
- must maintain a rating of 2000+ (so let's say is 2000+ in at least 50% of the games)
- let's assume that some percentage (50? less?) of the people who are presently rated 2000+ but haven't played in the last ten+ years are still capable of the above
How many people in Canada could do that?
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Actually, quite a few players are 2000+ in correspondence chess or blitz, but a lot weaker in OTB standard tournament chess...
Of course, you must mean chess players like Jean Hebert whose CFC and ICCF correspondence rating are within 5 points of each other. :)
He's played well over 100 rated international correspondence games so we won't argue the accuracy of his ICCF rating.
It is possible for players with a small number of games to not be correctly rated in correspondence chess. The reason is the way they handle a players initial rating to prevent deflation in the entire pool of players. The type of deflation where the CFC has been fighting the good fight. Here is the rule they use.
"At the beginning of a tournament start ratings are assigned for those players with a published rating in the applicable ratings list. For newer players, FIDE ratings may be used if available, failing which a player would be regarded as having a rating equal to the tournament level. In case of a wrong or obviously inappropriate value the Ratings Commissioner may adjust such a start rating to a more realistic value, even if the tournament is already ongoing.
When a game is finished, the rating calculation procedure will use a player’s rating from the newest rating list for those players with a published rating; otherwise, the start rating is used. However, if a player’s current rating is lower than his start rating; the new ratings for his opponents are calculated using the player’s start rating."
Of course, you must mean chess players like Jean Hebert whose CFC and ICCF correspondence rating are within 5 points of each other. :)
He's played well over 100 rated international correspondence games so we won't argue the accuracy of his ICCF rating.
It is possible for players with a small number of games to not be correctly rated in correspondence chess. The reason is the way they handle a players initial rating to prevent deflation in the entire pool of players. The type of deflation where the CFC has been fighting the good fight. Here is the rule they use.
"At the beginning of a tournament start ratings are assigned for those players with a published rating in the applicable ratings list. For newer players, FIDE ratings may be used if available, failing which a player would be regarded as having a rating equal to the tournament level. In case of a wrong or obviously inappropriate value the Ratings Commissioner may adjust such a start rating to a more realistic value, even if the tournament is already ongoing.
When a game is finished, the rating calculation procedure will use a player’s rating from the newest rating list for those players with a published rating; otherwise, the start rating is used. However, if a player’s current rating is lower than his start rating; the new ratings for his opponents are calculated using the player’s start rating."
I think he was more talking about the numerous player who have OTB ratings of about 1800, and ICCF ratings of 2300-2400...
Of course, you must mean chess players like Jean Hebert whose CFC and ICCF correspondence rating are within 5 points of each other. :)
A better example is Jocelyn Cote from Quebec City. His ICCF title is SIM (I guess this means senior international master?). His ICCF rating is 2552. His FQE rating is 1755.
Of course this may be due to the fact that computers are allowed now in correspondence chess. I used to play by mail at a time when computers were not very strong and not allowed in any case. Still, I remember an opponent who was rated 2200+ CCCA, but only 1200 FQE.
I think he was more talking about the numerous player who have OTB ratings of about 1800, and ICCF ratings of 2300-2400...
The part in quotation marks, which is the rule which applies to unrated players, explains how this can happen in the short term. The thesis you presented, if not meant to simply be argumentative, would suggest Jean should have a correspondence rating of over 3,000.
There are only 2 active ICCF players with ratings over 2700 and a total counting those who are inactive of 7. Far less than in over the board. The highest rated is Ulf Andersson at 2737 based on 37 games and I'm not sure for how long since he last played. However, I'd wager his over the board rating was within about 100 points of his correspondence rating.
If you read the ICCF rule for starting ratings, you will likely understand how ratings based on a small number of games may be higher than a players strength. In Canada, where the players complain about rating deflation, it's not unusual to see over the board ratings of under 1000. Also the pockets of under rated players in different provinces.
With the CFC rating system an 800 rated player will tend to find his rating improves by the time he reaches 100 rated games played unless he really is a 800 rated player. In ICCF a player will find his rating adjusts from the starting level of the tournament as the number of games played increases. Often downward.
The comparison of the two rating systems is like comparing apples and oranges.
Of course this may be due to the fact that computers are allowed now in correspondence chess. I used to play by mail at a time when computers were not very strong and not allowed in any case. Still, I remember an opponent who was rated 2200+ CCCA, but only 1200 FQE.
Let's make this real simple so it doesn't sound like we're arguing. Is it possible for a player to have a rating 1200 FQE and around 2000 CFC or FIDE?
I don't know which year you played in the CCCA. In the years I was doing administration I would take the CFC or FIDE rating and deduct 800 (I think that was the number) rating points for the CCCA rating. We didn't want any confusion between the CFC and CCCA ratings. I understand that has now changed and there is no deduction. That long ago Quebec players were almost always under rated and I had to adjust for that so the class events would be competitive. I didn't want A class players playing in C class events, as an example.
Last edited by Gary Ruben; Sunday, 23rd September, 2012, 05:04 PM.
A better example is Jocelyn Cote from Quebec City. His ICCF title is SIM (I guess this means senior international master?). His ICCF rating is 2552. His FQE rating is 1755.
Of course this may be due to the fact that computers are allowed now in correspondence chess.
correspondence ratings frequently substantially outstripped otb ratings decades ago too.
I played from 1978 to 1994. My best result was finishing third equal in Canadian championship K-44, behind Denis Pineault and Jean Desforges. I went to the CCCA website, but only found current news. They don't seem to keep track of the past. Or is it possible that I did not look at the right place?
Last edited by Louis Morin; Monday, 24th September, 2012, 02:01 AM.
I went to the CCCA website, but only found current news. They don't seem to keep track of the past. Or is it possible that I did not look at the right place?
I don't know. Maybe the past is only in the publication they mail me every few months. They are up to number 580 July - Sept 2012, and at least one person has a copy off the entire set back to number 1. They are currently conducting CCCA 90, which is an international event for their 90th anniversary.
I haven't played in a CCCA event with only CCCA members in at least 10 years that I can recall. I played in events which were ICCF and were mostly international players. There isn't enough time to play in them all. Four events of 13 players each is 48 games and a year and a half or so.
In the world of chess Canadians are consistent. The results in international correspondence chess isn't much better than in over the board. Funny how that works.
Last edited by Gary Ruben; Monday, 24th September, 2012, 11:58 AM.
I played from 1978 to 1994. My best result was finishing third equal in Canadian championship K-44, behind Denis Pineault and Jean Desforges. I went to the CCCA website, but only found current news. They don't seem to keep track of the past. Or is it possible that I did not look at the right place?
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