Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

**Jack Maguire** · Saturday, 17th November, 2012, 05:33 PM

Re : Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Always a pleasure to see you post, Erwin. The word 'prodigy' gets far, far too much use but it's certainly warranted in Harmony's case. She's the real deal, win, lose, or draw tomorrow.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on whether you'd advise Harmony to compete next year in the 2013 WYCC U8 Open or Girls section? I'm sure you already know my thoughts therein.

**Jack Maguire** · Saturday, 17th November, 2012, 05:51 PM

Re : Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Since Harmony turned 7 today, her final CFC rating is frozen at 1524 as a 6-year-old. Anyone happen to know how this compares with former 6-year-old Canadian 'prodigies', male or female?

**Erwin Casareno** · Saturday, 17th November, 2012, 06:10 PM

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Hi Jack. before anything else, thank you for enjoying my post. I also enjoy reading your educative posts. I can no longer prevent myself from posting about our favorite Canadian player in the WYCC. Although Harmony is no longer a candidate for the title, she has proven that she is one of the best.

Regarding the issue of playing in the U8 open next year, I sincerely believe that she needds to conquer the U8 girls first, then she can plan to play in the open.

Going back, i used the word "prodigy" becasue i felt that she is very talented for her age. Out of the 100 positions that i showed, she has only missed very few. She even saw the move of GM KArjakin vs GM Fridman in the last Olympiad. For a girl of 6 years?

Anyway, have you come up with the Canadian record of prodigies? That would be interesting.

For tomorrow's games, I would like to see Harmony play a protacted game, bring the game to the last few minutes. I have witnessed her capability to play under extreme time pressure and still come up with accurate moves.
This is where the chance of Harmony lies.

**Hugh Brodie** · Saturday, 17th November, 2012, 06:23 PM

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Maybe a 6 year old Jeff Sarwer - if he had played in any tournaments at the time. That would have been 1984, and his earliest published game is from 1985.

Larry might have some stats using Chess and Math ratings. (I gave him my complete set of "Scholar's Mate" so I don't have access to the old "top rated in each grade" lists) How about Jonathan Gottlieb (in 1991) or Lefong Hua (in 1989)?

**Jack Maguire** · Sunday, 18th November, 2012, 03:24 PM

Re : Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Originally posted by Erwin Casareno View Post

Hi Jack. before anything else, thank you for enjoying my post. I also enjoy reading your educative posts. I can no longer prevent myself from posting about our favorite Canadian player in the WYCC. Although Harmony is no longer a candidate for the title, she has proven that she is one of the best.

Regarding the issue of playing in the U8 open next year, I sincerely believe that she needds to conquer the U8 girls first, then she can plan to play in the open.

Going back, i used the word "prodigy" becasue i felt that she is very talented for her age. Out of the 100 positions that i showed, she has only missed very few. She even saw the move of GM KArjakin vs GM Fridman in the last Olympiad. For a girl of 6 years?

Anyway, have you come up with the Canadian record of prodigies? That would be interesting.

For tomorrow's games, I would like to see Harmony play a protacted game, bring the game to the last few minutes. I have witnessed her capability to play under extreme time pressure and still come up with accurate moves.
This is where the chance of Harmony lies.

Even my own son agrees with you, Erwin. I believe his words were something to the effect, "You can't pass up a world title, dad."

Nonetheless, I'm going to stick to my Thoreauvian (i.e. "majority of one") musings and still suggest to her parents that they point her towards the 2013 WYCC Open rather than the Girls next year.

I'll very likely point out that Harmony has already proven she's the strongest 7-year-old (lol, all of 2 days now) girl on the planet. All 7 of the girls who finished ahead of Harmony were born in 2004 and thus not eligible for the U8 Girls next year.

If Harmony continues to improve and tack on CFC rating points, and I have absolutely no doubt that she will, I think she's fully capable of competing with the very best U8 boys next year. Moreover, not just competing. Even winning!

**Jack Maguire** · Sunday, 18th November, 2012, 03:34 PM

Re : Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Originally posted by Hugh Brodie View Post

Maybe a 6 year old Jeff Sarwer - if he had played in any tournaments at the time. That would have been 1984, and his earliest published game is from 1985.

Larry might have some stats using Chess and Math ratings. (I gave him my complete set of "Scholar's Mate" so I don't have access to the old "top rated in each grade" lists) How about Jonathan Gottlieb (in 1991) or Lefong Hua (in 1989)?

No doubt that Jeff Sarwer was a prodigy of immense proportions. Jeff, of course, won the WYCC U10 when he was just 8 years of age (there being no U8 sections in his time). And I believe is was Bruce Pandolfini who said that Jeff was at least 2 years ahead of Fischer at a similar age in his chess development.

Given Jeff's immense love of the game, I'm sure he would have been Canada's first elite (i.e. 2700+) GM had he been allowed to continue his normal chess development instead of having to abandon the game completely. I could be wrong, but I believe there's a movie in the works re his fascinating life.

**Duncan Smith** · Sunday, 18th November, 2012, 08:36 PM

Re: Re : Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Originally posted by Jack Maguire View Post

Even my own son agrees with you, Erwin. I believe his words were something to the effect, "You can't pass up a world title, dad."

Nonetheless, I'm going to stick to my Thoreauvian (i.e. "majority of one") musings and still suggest to her parents that they point her towards the 2013 WYCC Open rather than the Girls next year.

I'll very likely point out that Harmony has already proven she's the strongest 7-year-old (lol, all of 2 days now) girl on the planet. All 7 of the girls who finished ahead of Harmony were born in 2004 and thus not eligible for the U8 Girls next year.

If Harmony continues to improve and tack on CFC rating points, and I have absolutely no doubt that she will, I think she's fully capable of competing with the very best U8 boys next year. Moreover, not just competing. Even winning!

Canada has had several U10 age group girls that were #1 in Canada any gender at some point. Its after that age they seem to fall behind. We disagree on exactly why. I don't doubt that Harmony is capable of winning the open CYCC section. What is right for them given all realities though is not simple. The chance of winning is almost irrelevant to the right way to go.

**Bob Armstrong** · Sunday, 18th November, 2012, 09:50 PM

Girls Choosing Tournaments

If the principle is that a junior should, if they have a choice, join the tournament with the stronger opposition,

a. to learn more from playing better players, and
b. to not fall into bad habits from playing weaker ones,

then it seems to me Harmony would do better playing in the 2013 CYCC U 8 Open.

Also, from the point of view of promotion of women's chess, and of women/girls role modelling, a win of the U 8 Open by a girl would move things along quite nicely, thank you very much. I am not aware of this happening in Canada ( can someone confirm this would be a precedent? ).

And from what I've seen of Harmony at the 2 Toronto clubs she plays at ( I've watched her games at both places ), she probably has the capability of winning it.

Bob A

**Duncan Smith** · Monday, 19th November, 2012, 02:45 AM

Re: Girls Choosing Tournaments

You seem to presume a 7 year old plays chess to further your philosophy and promote that vision to others. I'm finding certain aspects of this absurd. These players should choose the event they enjoy the most.

**Ken Craft** · Monday, 19th November, 2012, 08:52 AM

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

The principle is that the junior should do whatever pleases him or her.

**John Coleman** · Monday, 19th November, 2012, 10:14 AM

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

What a great weight of expectations some posters are loading onto the shoulders of a small child. If Harmony or her parents read ChessTalk, I wouldn't be surprised if she gave up chess altogether.

**Tom O'Donnell** · Monday, 19th November, 2012, 10:25 AM

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Originally posted by John Coleman View Post

What a great weight of expectations some posters are loading onto the shoulders of a small child. If Harmony or her parents read ChessTalk, I wouldn't be surprised if she gave up chess altogether.

Yes quite ridiculous to start talking about players in this way until they are at least roughly 2500 FIDE. I remember when I hit 2300 CFC Kevin Spraggett told me that I had just squeaked past beginner category. At the time I thought he was joking but I later realized that he was right.

**Vlad Dobrich** · Monday, 19th November, 2012, 10:46 AM

Re: Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

It seems a commonly held supposition that the way to improve a child's chess game is through exposing the child to competition somewhat above his or her level. I do not believe this is necessarily so. Excellence in chess is achieved through both perspiration and inspiration. The young player needs to be inspired through initial success to want to improve at which point hard work and study ensues naturally.
Granted, occasionally, a defeat or two will inspire renewed determination in a student with an already great fighting spirit who will then redouble their efforts in the study. But too many defeats can chase away the aspiring young enthusiast.
So my advice is, "Make sure the child has a rewarding and enjoyable experience!" Let the young player seek their own greater and greater challenges.
Parents who force their child to play above their level will find the youngster seeking more rewarding activity.

**Vlad Drkulec** · Monday, 19th November, 2012, 11:03 AM

Re: Girls Choosing Tournaments

Originally posted by Bob Armstrong View Post

If the principle is that a junior should, if they have a choice, join the tournament with the stronger opposition,

a. to learn more from playing better players, and
b. to not fall into bad habits from playing weaker ones,

then it seems to me Harmony would do better playing in the 2013 CYCC U 8 Open.

Also, from the point of view of promotion of women's chess, and of women/girls role modelling, a win of the U 8 Open by a girl would move things along quite nicely, thank you very much. I am not aware of this happening in Canada ( can someone confirm this would be a precedent? ).

And from what I've seen of Harmony at the 2 Toronto clubs she plays at ( I've watched her games at both places ), she probably has the capability of winning it.

Bob A

The fallacy in your idea is that it is not possible for everyone to play only stronger players. Further given the tendency to overestimate one's own abilities and underestimate the opponents' abilities someone following this belief will always want to play players rated much higher than they are. Beating players that are slightly weaker or equal to the player in skill is also a necessary component in chess improvement.

A player may be quite capable of winning the open section of the CYCC but that does not mean that the person will be able to win the open section of the WYCC. If she is going to go through the heavy expense of going to a WYCC then she should probably go to the section where she has a better shot at becoming a world champion. If the argument is that she should only play in tournaments where she will meet strong competition then there is probably several such tournaments within driving distance or short flying distance of Toronto every weekend where she can probably attend ten tournaments for the cost of one WYCC.

Let the kid have some fun.

Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

Motahare Asadi (9.5) vs Harmony Zhu (7.5) – the moment of truth

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