CFC Fees Review

[Gary Ruben]

Re: CFC Fees Review

Kerry Liles wrote: I would also like to see the kickback to the provincial associations be normalized across the country: no more bizarre fee structure based on geography... Provincial affiliates/associations would get about $3/member based on the amounts above ($0 for tournament memberships).


Provinces don't receive kickbacks, Kerry. Provincial Federation's set their own membership fees. These fees are collected together and remitted to the CFC. The CFC rebates the provincial portion back to provincial federations on a regular basis.

I believe BC has decoupled its provincial fee and has decided to charge a per event fee rather than a per year fee for its members.

That's a cozy relationship which gives me the "warm fuzzies". "Kickbacks" is a harsh word, although I can't improve on it. Possibly, redistribution of wealth is a better way to look at it. The member joins and the money is "shared" between the CFC and the province involved. Kind of like income taxes. I pay my total taxes to the federal government and they "kickback", (whoops, me bad), they "remit" to the provinces the amounts each charges. As each province sets its own tax rate, that model is closer and I suppose the governors would have the same status as an MP. They are generally ignored while expected to vote the party line.

As someone who has sold a lot of new memberships over the years, I can tell you cost does make a difference. A small token amount, as Kerry seems to be suggesting, might go a long way toward increasing memberships on a national basis.

As an example BC has about 1/3 the population of Ontario. Not exactly but approximately. They have approx. 1/4 the CFC membership according to the CFC membership stats. I can recall when BC was a vibrant chess center with many good players. I used to try to "mine" that province for new correspondence members years ago.

Alberta has almost a million less in population and approximately the same number of CFC members.

The only real difference I can find is that Alberta, at the CFC web site, shows a membership fee of $41.00 while BC shows a membership fee of $48.00.

To put it in real terms, that's a half weeks grocery bill most weeks for me and Beware, my dog.

[Kerry Liles]

Re: CFC Fees Review

Kerry Liles wrote: I would also like to see the kickback to the provincial associations be normalized across the country: no more bizarre fee structure based on geography... Provincial affiliates/associations would get about $3/member based on the amounts above ($0 for tournament memberships).


Provinces don't receive kickbacks, Kerry. Provincial Federation's set their own membership fees. These fees are collected together and remitted to the CFC. The CFC rebates the provincial portion back to provincial federations on a regular basis.

I believe BC has decoupled its provincial fee and has decided to charge a per event fee rather than a per year fee for its members.

Yes I know only too well that the CFC is merely collecting the provincial portion on behalf of the provinces, so I probably should have put "kickback" in quotes or smiley faces or both... I meant it a bit tongue-in-cheek but couldn't find a suitable icon for that - at least not one that was suitable for public display!

I read what BC is doing and I think it is a very interesting idea... even though I am the OCA treasurer, I am more seriously leaning toward wondering what the Provincial associations add to the mix...

[Ken Craft]

Re: CFC Fees Review

I think that maybe the smaller the province the more relevant the provincial federation is to its members. In NB money is quite often used to support qualifiers for national championships.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: CFC Fees Review

strictly speaking, the provincial portion of the Tournament Membership fee is not at present set by the provincial associations. The CFC Tournament Membership along with how much is rebated to the provincial associations is entirely a creature of the CFC as enacted solely through motions by the CFC governers. Provincial associations have (so far) acquiesed in this - accepting that no provincial membership be collected in return for receiving a portion of the Tournament Membership with the size of that portion being determined by the CFC.

[Ken Craft]

Re: CFC Fees Review

I don't think tournament memberships are bought that often in NB but I could be mistaken.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: CFC Fees Review

that's interesting. My last tournament had 30% tournament memberships. And yes, if there were no tournament membership, many of those would not play.

[Ken Craft]

Re: CFC Fees Review

The biggest problem is that the tournament membership is not being used in the manner it was intended, a one-time introduction for new members.

In a material sense, a CFC membership provides little return at the moment. That being said is that the reason to belong to a national federation, your own material gain? As a Life Member who doesn't play in rated events, I don't think so.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: CFC Fees Review

that's interesting. My last tournament had 30% tournament memberships. And yes, if there were no tournament membership, many of those would not play.

How many players were there total?

I notice there is no special price for seniors over 65. Everyone caters to us seniors. We laugh all the way to the bank.

[Roger Patterson]

Re: CFC Fees Review

http://www.victoriachessclub.pbwiki....ck+Taylor+2008

[Gary Ruben]

Re: CFC Fees Review

http://www.victoriachessclub.pbwiki....ck+Taylor+2008

I see. I don't know the ages and how many were juniors.

Competitive gymnastics for an 8 year old runs around 3,000. and recreational costs around 1,000 at a private club. Learn to swim and learn to skate programs for kids cost $85. for 10 weeks at our local city recreation center.

I guess the kids have more money than adult chess players. Or, they are better sales people.

[Jason Lohner]

Re: CFC Fees Review

I see. I don't know the ages and how many were juniors.

Competitive gymnastics for an 8 year old runs around 3,000. and recreational costs around 1,000 at a private club. Learn to swim and learn to skate programs for kids cost $85. for 10 weeks at our local city recreation center.

I guess the kids have more money than adult chess players. Or, they are better sales people.

Kids don't but most parents will gladly pay for their kids what they wouldn't pay for themselves. I didn't blink when my son wanted a Bass Guitar (around $400) when he was interested in learning it but damn if I was going to buy one for myself I would look hard and long for the best deal and have a huge internal debate on if I really wanted the item. When I buy an item for myself I look for value. If I was playing in 1-2 tournaments a year I would only use the Tournament membership. If I didn't have that option I would just stick to playing online and against people at my local club. The amount I've been able to play lately, I will probably not renew.

[Ben Daswani]

Re: CFC Fees Review

I see. I don't know the ages and how many were juniors.

Competitive gymnastics for an 8 year old runs around 3,000. and recreational costs around 1,000 at a private club. Learn to swim and learn to skate programs for kids cost $85. for 10 weeks at our local city recreation center.

I guess the kids have more money than adult chess players. Or, they are better sales people.

What sort of an idiot pays $85 for skating lessons? I learned to skate on the Internet.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: CFC Fees Review

What sort of an idiot pays $85 for skating lessons? I learned to skate on the Internet.

That's surfing you learned, not skating. Do I have to tell you everything? :)

[Gary Ruben]

Re: CFC Fees Review

Kids don't but most parents will gladly pay for their kids what they wouldn't pay for themselves. I didn't blink when my son wanted a Bass Guitar (around $400) when he was interested in learning it but damn if I was going to buy one for myself I would look hard and long for the best deal and have a huge internal debate on if I really wanted the item. When I buy an item for myself I look for value. If I was playing in 1-2 tournaments a year I would only use the Tournament membership. If I didn't have that option I would just stick to playing online and against people at my local club. The amount I've been able to play lately, I will probably not renew.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to sell CFC memberships.

I can't recall how much the accordion I bought cost.

[Alan Baljeu]

Re: CFC Fees Review

The biggest problem is that the tournament membership is not being used in the manner it was intended, a one-time introduction for new members.

In a material sense, a CFC membership provides little return at the moment. That being said is that the reason to belong to a national federation, your own material gain? As a Life Member who doesn't play in rated events, I don't think so.

Yes that is the reason. I don't view the CFC as a noble cause, but as an organization that provides possibly useful services. Personally, I'm starting to think that we should bury the membership thing and just go with fee for services, and then embed that fee in the tournament cost.

I'm a player who averages one CFC tournament a year. (My membership lapsed in November. I'll renew the next time I feel like going to a tournament.) I know a couple dozen players who occasionally do non-CFC tournaments but never CFC tournaments. $40 just isn't worth the money to play once a year. $40 to join the tourney, okay, but $40 on top of the tourney entrance fee?

If things switched around so the tourney rating fee was $3, and there was no membership fee, I'd wager that you would pretty soon have $3*24 people *2 tournaments each = $144 instead of $40 from our area. Chess tournaments would become more popular as a result, and numbers would go up. Next year you'd rake in $300. The following year maybe $500. More participation. Less disincentive. This is the way to grow chess.

(There are about 3 other CFC members around here that I know of. These travel to tournaments more regularly. CFC would get less membership dues out of these, but continue to collect tournament fees.)