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This is what was tried at the Mauricie tournament a few years ago in Trois-Rivieres. There were 200-point classes open to those under 2000 (and no Open class). Complaints from stronger players encouraged the organizers to re-instate an Open section.
Its funny that in hockey you can have tournaments for class A,B and C groups without too much problem but to do the same with chess players is a lot like herding cats.
So the biggest first prize could well be in the U 1400 section, if that's where the most players show up
All numbers should be taken +- 2-3 people (source: CFC crosstables)
2008 Toronto Holidays (Total 91)
Open - 37
U2000 - 30
U1600 - 24
2008 Toronto Thanks (Total 92)
Open - 25
U2100 - 16
U1900 - 17
U1700 - 14
U1500 - 20
2008 Toronto Labour (Total 142)
Open - 42
U2200 -10
U2000 - 25
U1800 - 26
U1600 - 39
The largest numbers are at Opens.
IMHO: the tournament should have less separate sections and the rating difference should be larger with an additional rating prize, e.g., Open (+u2300 or u2200), U2000 (+u1750), U1500 (+u1200). Prize value must increase with every upper section - players must try to improve and jump to the next level.
You said: "Why should class players even EXPECT prizes? They're not particularly good at chess. They're amateurs....Chess is your HOBBY. You don't DESERVE money if you do well, because "doing well" by your standards isn't actually a feat. Period." End Quote.
This is the part where you insulted all class players. I realize by chesstalk standards, maybe this is actually considered a compliment But seriously, I get annoyed when I hear strong players (>2000) argue they should get 100% of the rewards and bear 0% of the costs! It's the class players whose pay most of the bills. You would deny us the crumbs ? :(
Maybe we should run a class players only tournament !;)
Hold up. I consider myself (>2000) a class player as well. Withstanding junior events and tournaments with <20 players, I've never won anything other than a class prize. I don't consider myself a strong player. I consider myself strong for an amateur.
everytime it hurts, it hurts just like the first (and then you cry till there's no more tears)
As you say, often in a class, 1 or 2 players stand out. So if you only have 1 or 2 class prizes, then quickly everyone else is out of the money. It's really fun when lots of players are battling for the crumbs in the final round.
Those $11 prizes are sometimes the most delicious!( or even an empty beer can on a block of wood):):):):)
It took me a lot of effort to make that trophy Bob. First I had to drink a can a beer. Second, I had to find a scrap piece of wood. Third I had to get a roll of duct tape and a marker. Then I had to put it all together. You can't find craftsmanship like that anymore, amen.
All numbers should be taken +- 2-3 people (source: CFC crosstables)
2008 Toronto Holidays (Total 91)
Open - 37
U2000 - 30
U1600 - 24
2008 Toronto Thanks (Total 92)
Open - 25
U2100 - 16
U1900 - 17
U1700 - 14
U1500 - 20
2008 Toronto Labour (Total 142)
Open - 42
U2200 -10
U2000 - 25
U1800 - 26
U1600 - 39
The largest numbers are at Opens.
IMHO: the tournament should have less separate sections and the rating difference should be larger with an additional rating prize, e.g., Open (+u2300 or u2200), U2000 (+u1750), U1500 (+u1200). Prize value must increase with every upper section - players must try to improve and jump to the next level.
The larger the participants, the higher the prize allocation percentage, the wider the prize distribution spread, more competitive and attractive! Now we understood "ratio and proportion"! Let's prepare for the battle ahead!!! :):):)
I would add an Open Section and U2200 section to the tournament IF, that is IF, they also follow the " class " tournament rules. That is:
1. the entry fees for the section, minus proportionate expenses, as in the other sections, are the only source of prizes for the section ( no subsidization of the top section by the lower sections ); and
2. there are 10 prizes, as in the other sections.
The BIG Question:
Will the top players come out to play when they see only modest prizes, because of these two requirements ( although Open sections tend to do favourably in terms of numbers compared to other sections, the prizes will be smaller than usual because of the lack of taking prize money from the other sections, and the wider distribution of the section prize pool ) ?? Will the top players play for the " love of the game " , the same as the " class " players? Will Ben play ?
Would you take a chance on organizing a tournament like this, if the " top " ( " better " ) players are included this way?
All numbers should be taken +- 2-3 people (source: CFC crosstables)
2008 Toronto Holidays (Total 91)
Open - 37
U2000 - 30
U1600 - 24
2008 Toronto Thanks (Total 92)
Open - 25
U2100 - 16
U1900 - 17
U1700 - 14
U1500 - 20
2008 Toronto Labour (Total 142)
Open - 42
U2200 -10
U2000 - 25
U1800 - 26
U1600 - 39
The largest numbers are at Opens.
IMHO: the tournament should have less separate sections and the rating difference should be larger with an additional rating prize, e.g., Open (+u2300 or u2200), U2000 (+u1750), U1500 (+u1200). Prize value must increase with every upper section - players must try to improve and jump to the next level.
What will be the approximate number of players in a section before an additional prize will be added?
I would estimate to be every 7 players, prize range increments, hence:
If the tournament has less than 21 players, Prizes range will be from the 1st to the 3rd places only. Above 28 players, 4th place prize will be added, Above 35 players, 5th prize will be added until we reach the 10th prize when the minimum number of players will be 70.
Like I said
When you run the same format here in Canada then I'll believe you. Until then it is just your idea that something in the USA will work in Canada.
A format resembling the one discussed is run in Trois-Rivières for a while now. It attracts around 300 people. See for yourself :
I would add an Open Section and U2200 section to the tournament IF, that is IF, they also follow the " class " tournament rules. That is:
1. the entry fees for the section, minus proportionate expenses, as in the other sections, are the only source of prizes for the section ( no subsidization of the top section by the lower sections ); and
2. there are 10 prizes, as in the other sections.
The BIG Question:
Will the top players come out to play when they see only modest prizes, because of these two requirements ( although Open sections tend to do favourably in terms of numbers compared to other sections, the prizes will be smaller than usual because of the lack of taking prize money from the other sections, and the wider distribution of the section prize pool ) ?? Will the top players play for the " love of the game " , the same as the " class " players? Will Ben play ?
Would you take a chance on organizing a tournament like this, if the " top " ( " better " ) players are included this way?
Bob
Most of the top players won't play and, therefore, neither will I. Why would I? I play in tournaments so I can play strong players and improve, and for the opportunity to gain rating. I only play if masters will be playing. If the top players don't play, the second-tier players will not, and soon the third-tier players will not, etc. You have to keep the top players happy.
everytime it hurts, it hurts just like the first (and then you cry till there's no more tears)
What will be the approximate number of players in a section before an additional prize will be added?
I would estimate to be every 7 players, prize range increments, hence:
If the tournament has less than 21 players, Prizes range will be from the 1st to the 3rd places only. Above 28 players, 4th place prize will be added, Above 35 players, 5th prize will be added until we reach the 10th prize when the minimum number of players will be 70.
All this makes my head spin (more than usual...) but check out this current entry on Susan Polgar's blog - a coincidence??
It took me a lot of effort to make that trophy Bob. First I had to drink a can a beer. Second, I had to find a scrap piece of wood. Third I had to get a roll of duct tape and a marker. Then I had to put it all together. You can't find craftsmanship like that anymore, amen.
Ah yes, you can't beat quality craftmanship. That $ 11 that I won in a bizillion way tie is long gone (ironically, probably on beer), but I can enjoy my handcrafted beer can trophy years later. :):):)
You could always have the better players play for a minimum First Prize of say $500.
Let the Class Players have their glory and let the elite play for something.
That way you don't exclude anyone.
But to run a Class Tournament as Bob A. has suggested you'd need to a have a very cheap or Free site as the bulk of the expenses is usually the playing site.
There must be some chess patrons out there that would donate a free site to let this class tournament get a start. Maybe if you ran a tournament to sponsor
Cancer Research with 80% of the money going to cancer research and $20% to prizes. You may get a lot of donations and a bigger prize fund then asking for an entry fee. 20% of $100,000 is $20,000 and I don't see too many fund raisers for Cancer Research that don't collect $100,000.
Hey maybe the Cancer Hospital in Mississauga could give us their cafeteria for free.
Ah yes, you can't beat quality craftmanship. That $ 11 that I won in a bizillion way tie is long gone (ironically, probably on beer), but I can enjoy my handcrafted beer can trophy years later. :):):)
Screw the cash prizes, I want more trophies.;)
Everyone has preferences. If I won a good prize, i can order a customized trophy engraved with my preferred encryption and still has remaining cash. If I won an $11 dollar, I can add a couple of dollars to eat a buffet lunch/dinner. I prefer both cash and a trophy.;)
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But seriously, I get annoyed when I hear strong players (>2000) argue they should get 100% of the rewards and bear 0% of the costs! It's the class players whose pay most of the bills. You would deny us the crumbs ? :(
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