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CYCC younger player to play in older section, fair for others in younger section?
CYCC younger player to play in older section, fair for others in younger section?
I am told that if a younger player likes to play in an older section, it would be unfair for other players in the younger section having same age as this player, I don't understand the logic, if the other younger players who think it is unfair, they can also participate in older section, correct?
By the group name U18, U16... , it should allow all players whose age is under 18, 16.. to participate in that section, otherwise, I would suggest CYCC change the name of the groups to 17-18 group/section, 15-16 group...
It shouldn't use "U", which I understand "U" stands for "under", correct?
Also, if the organizer made a decision before or during the tournament, and players don't agree, who should players submit the appeal to?
Re : CYCC younger player to play in older section, fair for others in younger section
I wouldn't see much problem if older sections were stronger than younger sections, but unfortunately it's not always the case (especially for girls)... In my opinion, it would be extremely unfair if a player won an older section (and thus the money prize), but would not have been able to win a younger section... Obviously, if that player was simply way to strong for his/her section, then it's not the same. And yes, they could all play in the older section, but some might not be aware of this trick, and if all the players play up, then we'll end up with weaker players winning the lower sections.
The handbook doesn't seem to be clear on that, so I guess it's up to the organizers. Personally, I wouldn't allow any player to play up, but that should have been said somewhere.
If you do not agree with a decision, I'd suggest writing to the CFC executive. However, I fear it would be too late once the tournament has started. It's not like if the CFC had any kind of contract with the CYCC and the CO. Governors received a five lines bid, with the dates and no details, and had to vote on this (and give full powers to the organizers).
Re: CYCC younger player to play in older section, fair for others in younger section?
As Felix wrote, write to the CFC executive board. Say clearly who and where. It is not up to organizers interpret rules.
"716. Authority of the Board of Directors:
The CFC Board of Directors shall rule on any situation not covered by these regulations and shall have the authority to rule on any matter which is in dispute."
As I wrote already the clause should be not valid: "{Motion Bunning/Taylor in 2002-3 GL1 From AGM}: The Executive may allow exceptional players to move up to a higher age group."
Right now you are just looking for a public opinion. No decision will be made here. Unless that is your intention.
As Felix wrote, write to the CFC executive board. Say clearly who and where. It is not up to organizers interpret rules.
"716. Authority of the Board of Directors:
The CFC Board of Directors shall rule on any situation not covered by these regulations and shall have the authority to rule on any matter which is in dispute."
As I wrote already the clause should be not valid: "{Motion Bunning/Taylor in 2002-3 GL1 From AGM}: The Executive may allow exceptional players to move up to a higher age group."
Right now you are just looking for a public opinion. No decision will be made here. Unless that is your intention.
George has written to the Executive and the matter is under consideration.
FIDE allows in the WYCC playing up re age, and playing up re girls to Open.
The precedent has allowed this in Canada in the CYCC, and should be decisive where the Handbook is silent. I am aware that Hazel Smith, as a junior girl, once played up in the Open section for her age. Although I am not aware of a situation of age playing up, the one situation should be the same as the other in my opinion.
Where there is nothing in the bid contract on playing up, the Handbook should get priority. If it is silent, then the bid contract terms have to be searched to see if there is any implied decision as to whether the CFC or the organizer has control over this detail.
that's not playing up, and to think of it as such is sexist
Doesn't seem sexist at all. It's a clear fact that the boys section is tougher than the girls section and that is why there are sections for women and men tournaments. If anything, it's just stating the obvious
Re: Re : CYCC younger player to play in older section, fair for others in younger sec
Thanks for everyone's opinion, "but some might not be aware of this trick", the reason I posted on public forum is to let as much players/parents/coaches to know this "trick". I would be happy to see more players to play older section. I would think it is fair if younger kids would get the prize in older group because it is "obvious" that older kids are stronger than younger kids, the "under" age requirement is based on this "obvious" I guess.
Personally, I can accept both decisions(don't want give new president a hard decision to make), but would think it is unfair to use age restriction to protect older kids, I will advocate to other parents in Ottawa to challenge this invisible "rule", it is not an issue to play in older section in WYCC or USCF tournaments, why is it an issue in CYCC, if all think should protect older kids like this, then it should be written in handbook so that all kids would be protected this way in the future.
just my thought, if one age group has so many players who could get prize in older section, it will be unfair for them because only one of them could get the prize every year until they are over 18, even many of them could win prize in older section.
Last edited by George Zhou; Thursday, 4th July, 2013, 12:25 AM.
Re: CYCC younger player to play in older section, fair for others in younger section?
Thanks Vlad. You can make decision according to the rule freely, I can accept either decision you make. No matter what group we play, we will defend our CFC rating.
Doesn't seem sexist at all. It's a clear fact that the boys section is tougher than the girls section and that is why there are sections for women and men tournaments. If anything, it's just stating the obvious
there's no boys section. there's an open section and a girls section
everytime it hurts, it hurts just like the first (and then you cry till there's no more tears)
Next week this issue becomes real, since according to the registered players list, FM Jason Cao (who won the CYCC U14 two weeks ago) is registered for the U18 at the NAYCC.
Well, with first prize being IM title and 2nd-4th being IM norms, everyone should play up. As I see it, there's plenty of people who are playing up like Razvan and Michael. There's even Americans as young as Awonder who's just a bit over 10 playing in the U18 section. If no one wanted this issue to be a problem, the IM title and free norms shouldn't be awarded in the U18 section.
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