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Re: Chess Cheating on Superficial Evidence: Time to Put Up or Shut Up
You are now arguing against your previous argument: that someone who understands chess can identify "computer moves". My reply to that was that if someone outside the actual game can do it, someone PLAYING the game can do it.
Now you try and use combinatorial mathematics to prove that NO ONE can do it. You don't know if you're coming or going.
Ivanov could have identified something that no one else did: that if you play the computer enough, withdrawing totally from distractions for say 6 months and also from playing human opponents, you can learn to emulate the computer in every TYPE of situation. It isn't a case of memorizing positions and moves. It's a matter of pattern matching, which is exactly how chess players think. Maybe not every person can do it, but Ivanov claims he has done it and there is no one who can disprove that right now. To disprove it, you'd have to have many people repeat his steps and they'd all have to fail, and even that would only make it very unlikely rather than totally impossible.
Be advised that if you argue against this, you are arguing against the scientific method. Felix Dumont tried that and made himself (a scientist wannabe) look silly.
Also remember that I am very open to the possibility that Ivanov has been cheating. That's the way I swing: keep an open mind. So I give credence to both Ivanov and to his detractors. But you can imagine my displeasure with people who keep their minds closed, and why my favorite quote of all time is "There are none so blind as those who WILL not see." You may be able to teach me things about chess (although I have played chess competitively before and have read books on theory), but I could likewise teach you things about life.
Originally posted by Kovalyov Anton
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You are now arguing against your previous argument: that someone who understands chess can identify "computer moves". My reply to that was that if someone outside the actual game can do it, someone PLAYING the game can do it.
Now you try and use combinatorial mathematics to prove that NO ONE can do it. You don't know if you're coming or going.
Ivanov could have identified something that no one else did: that if you play the computer enough, withdrawing totally from distractions for say 6 months and also from playing human opponents, you can learn to emulate the computer in every TYPE of situation. It isn't a case of memorizing positions and moves. It's a matter of pattern matching, which is exactly how chess players think. Maybe not every person can do it, but Ivanov claims he has done it and there is no one who can disprove that right now. To disprove it, you'd have to have many people repeat his steps and they'd all have to fail, and even that would only make it very unlikely rather than totally impossible.
Be advised that if you argue against this, you are arguing against the scientific method. Felix Dumont tried that and made himself (a scientist wannabe) look silly.
Also remember that I am very open to the possibility that Ivanov has been cheating. That's the way I swing: keep an open mind. So I give credence to both Ivanov and to his detractors. But you can imagine my displeasure with people who keep their minds closed, and why my favorite quote of all time is "There are none so blind as those who WILL not see." You may be able to teach me things about chess (although I have played chess competitively before and have read books on theory), but I could likewise teach you things about life.
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