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I read it. The paper provides no original evidence that these treatments are of benefit. At best it simply cites other studies as evidence. It promotes practically every possible treatment from IVM to Hydroxychloroquine to Zinc, to Vitamins C and D. They literally concede "At this time there are no reports of conclusive randomized trials of oral ambulatory therapy for COVID-19 and none are expected in the short term.".
I cannot figure out WHY does Sid Belzberg, for whom time is money, is spending so much time here on ChessTalk trying to convince Garland Best that some kind of early intervention is needed and it will render masks and lockdowns unnecessary.
Garland: are you some kind of influencer? If you were to take on Sid's views, would there be a policy shift in Canada?
If not (and I'm suspecting that is the case), then why do you think someone of Sid's credentials is even trying to convince you? I think that is an important question here. Sid himself will not answer it.
Would you care to postulate on it, Garland? Surely you must have wondered about it yourself.
It is YOU that Sid is addressing, he considers all others here as beneath his dignity to address. I wonder how many businesspeople would love to have an appointment with Sid Belzberg lasting as many minutes as he spends writing and researching his posts here.
I cannot figure out WHY does Sid Belzberg, for whom time is money, is spending so much time here on ChessTalk trying to convince Garland Best that some kind of early intervention is needed and it will render masks and lockdowns unnecessary.
Garland: are you some kind of influencer? If you were to take on Sid's views, would there be a policy shift in Canada?
If not (and I'm suspecting that is the case), then why do you think someone of Sid's credentials is even trying to convince you? I think that is an important question here. Sid himself will not answer it.
Would you care to postulate on it, Garland? Surely you must have wondered about it yourself.
It is YOU that Sid is addressing, he considers all others here as beneath his dignity to address. I wonder how many businesspeople would love to have an appointment with Sid Belzberg lasting as many minutes as he spends writing and researching his posts here.
Sid doesn't need your shitty little attitude, Pargat.
I cannot figure out WHY does Sid Belzberg, for whom time is money, is spending so much time here on ChessTalk trying to convince Garland Best that some kind of early intervention is needed and it will render masks and lockdowns unnecessary.
Garland: are you some kind of influencer? If you were to take on Sid's views, would there be a policy shift in Canada?
If not (and I'm suspecting that is the case), then why do you think someone of Sid's credentials is even trying to convince you? I think that is an important question here. Sid himself will not answer it.
Would you care to postulate on it, Garland? Surely you must have wondered about it yourself.
It is YOU that Sid is addressing, he considers all others here as beneath his dignity to address. I wonder how many business people would love to have an appointment with Sid Belzberg lasting as many minutes as he spends writing and researching his posts here.
Did it ever occur to you that I care about humanity and not everything is about money for me? Chess talk has some very smart people here including Garland. Over the years I have learned fascinating things from Garland including an interesting introduction to the Pilot Wave theory. Garland and I do not agree on many things but I do believe we both agree that we can always learn a lot from each other. I am deeply concerned about what is happening in my own province of Ontario.
I can count at least 4 people that I personally was involved with that if not for the early intervention that I introduced them to they would surely be dead. For that alone it is worth the price of admission to talk in any forum I am comfortable with. As I have said to others if you find that offensive then don't read my posts.
The real tragedy is the consequences of bad Govt health policies. Here are some tragic examples of younger victims of that.
I finally checked this link out. You actually expect me to give credence to a website titled "https://ivmmeta.com/" to be an unbiased publisher of data? When the publishers of the cite states that they won't give their names, giving vague references to firing and death threats requiring anonymity? When they also promote other treatments at the top, and don't show a single analysis indicating that there are other treatments that are not effective?
It will take me weeks of study to learn what things like the "Random-effects (DerSimonian and Laird) method for meta-analysis" are and how they would be used to generate the data. And I would have to also determine if they have been truly non-biased in their selection of articles in their meta-analysis. Until then I have to go with where the data is published. If this info was truly reliable it could be published in an actual science journal.
This much I was able to figure out. The probability number itself is calculated as "there are 35 positive studies and zero negative studies, so the odds are one in (2 to the power of 35), which is 34.36 billion". All I have to do is find a bunch of negative result studies, toss them into the math and there goes your 1 in 34 billion number.
Quoteand don't show a single analysis indicating that there are other treatments that are not effective?
Clearly, you have not checked out the entire website. We provide complete analysis of Ivermetcin Vitamin D HCQ Vitamin C Zinc PVP-I REGN LY-COV and Remdesivir.
The tabs for each of these treatments is at the top of the page.
This much I was able to figure out. The probability number itself is calculated as "there are 35 positive studies and zero negative studies, so the odds are one in (2 to the power of 35), which is 34.36 billion". All I have to do is find a bunch of negative result studies, toss them into the math and there goes your 1 in 34 billion number.
Agreed, please show me any negative articles for IVM for early-stage high-risk patients. For the other treatments that have richer sources of data (that you somehow missed that we also analyze on our website) we include many examples of studies that show negative results.
nfants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle aged with no conditions etc. have zero to little risk….so we use them to develop herd…we want them infected…" Alexander added.
"t may be that it will be best if we open up and flood the zone and let the kids and young folk get infected" in order to get "natural immunity…natural exposure," Alexander wrote on July 24 to Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn, Caputo and eight other senior officials.
Are you kidding me??? This is one of Sid's colleagues???
Yes and I happen to agree with his statement. Please show us why South Korea fared much better than Canada as presented in the Stanford study given to you.
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Thursday, 28th January, 2021, 02:52 AM.
Findings The estimated basic reproduction number R_0 was 2.36 (95% CI: 2.28, 2.45) in Toronto. After the implementation of the SAHP, the contact rate outside the household fell by 39%. Interpretation Our model confirmed that the SAHP implemented in Toronto had a great impact in controlling the spread of COVID-19.
Conclusions
Our study supports the association between the timing of stay-at-home orders and the time to peak case and death counts for both countries and US states. Regions in which mandates were implemented late experienced a prolonged duration to reaching both peak daily case and death counts.
They found that the community infection rate dropped from 12% more cases each day (indicating that cases were doubling every 5 or 6 days) to 5% (indicating that cases were doubling every 14 days) after the states locked down starting Mar 19 to Apr 7.
These are 3 of the top 4 results from the google search "effectiveness of stay at home orders on covid-19 transmission"
(Full disclosure: Result number 3 of the search was https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...366-1/fulltext, which reviews how stay-at-home orders negatively affect the financial and mental health of mothers and wives in Bangladesh. I fully concede that these measures do harm people's financial and mental health.)
All well and good except you have not refuted the findings of the lockdown paper I gave you. Your model proved that it reduced transmission in Toronto but for what? A virus where if you are under 70 and healthy the survival rate according to the CDC is 99.997% even if you leave the virus untreated. If you are over 80 it goes down to 95% survival rate untreated. Treated reduces hospitalizations by 84%
Here is but one of the many proven successful early treatments. https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...24857920304258.
So if you treat early you do not need vaccines, lockdowns, masks and indeed with herd immunity, your own immune system will do a much better job than an experimental vaccine.
"I fully concede that these measures do harm people's financial and mental health.)" glad you agree with this, let me show you a few examples of how it affects young people's mental health. https://twitter.com/lilmsopinion/sta...634774532?s=21
I would ask you again to seriously study the website I gave you https://c19study.com including the many papers with links to all of them published in reputable publications.
If you think we are biased prove it with counterexamples of papers, especially papers that study early high risk patients. I will bet you a donut you will not find any that we omitted.
Garland, you may be surprised but we are both on the same side of doing good for people.
Please explain to me why not even administering treatments with a very high safety profile ie Vitamin D3 (coupled with vita\min K2 to counter calcification), IVM, HCQ+zn etc are not administered to people in LTC's instead leaving them isolated untreated to die. Do you have any clue what a CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY IS????
Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Thursday, 28th January, 2021, 09:33 AM.
Did it ever occur to you that I care about humanity and not everything is about money for me? Chess talk has some very smart people here including Garland. Over the years I have learned fascinating things from Garland including an interesting introduction to the Pilot Wave theory. Garland and I do not agree on many things but I do believe we both agree that we can always learn a lot from each other. I am deeply concerned about what is happening in my own province of Ontario.
I can count at least 4 people that I personally was involved with that if not for the early intervention that I introduced them to they would surely be dead. For that alone it is worth the price of admission to talk in any forum I am comfortable with. As I have said to others if you find that offensive then don't read my posts.
The real tragedy is the consequences of bad Govt health policies. Here are some tragic examples of younger victims of that.
I am not offended at all by what you are doing, I am questioning WHY you are doing it.
In particular, why Garland Best unless he has some means at his disposal to change anything that is being done against covid right now in Ontario. What can Garland do?
Because if Garland can't do anything, then you are simply wasting your precious time, and perhaps there is someone in the Ontario Government that you would be better off petitioning to change what is being done.
Better yet, since you are ranting against the "tragedy" and the "crimes against humanity", go to the MEDIA!!!!
WTF are you wasting time on ChessTalk to accomplish?????????????
Imagine if in some future history textbook about the covid era, you are mentioned as someone who had the right ideas.... and you are described as "having the correct policies that should have been taken, but wasted his time proselytizing on a tiny little chess forum known as ChessTalk which was a forum dedicated to chess activities."
Every minute that you spend here, you could be making efforts in the media or with the government to actually change things. So no, I'm not even against what you are proselytizing, I"ve even said here that your ideas are worth examining and maybe even correct. But WHY WHY WHY do you waste your time HERE?????
And Garland Best is not the only person on this site you could learn from. The correct attitude to have is that we can all learn from each other. For example, from Neil Frarey you can learn more about the art of trolling;
I am not offended at all by what you are doing, I am questioning WHY you are doing it.
In particular, why Garland Best unless he has some means at his disposal to change anything that is being done against covid right now in Ontario. What can Garland do?
Because if Garland can't do anything, then you are simply wasting your precious time, and perhaps there is someone in the Ontario Government that you would be better off petitioning to change what is being done.
Better yet, since you are ranting against the "tragedy" and the "crimes against humanity", go to the MEDIA!!!!
WTF are you wasting time on ChessTalk to accomplish?????????????
Imagine if in some future history textbook about the covid era, you are mentioned as someone who had the right ideas.... and you are described as "having the correct policies that should have been taken, but wasted his time proselytizing on a tiny little chess forum known as ChessTalk which was a forum dedicated to chess activities."
Every minute that you spend here, you could be making efforts in the media or with the government to actually change things. So no, I'm not even against what you are proselytizing, I"ve even said here that your ideas are worth examining and maybe even correct. But WHY WHY WHY do you waste your time HERE?????
And Garland Best is not the only person on this site you could learn from. The correct attitude to have is that we can all learn from each other. For example, from Neil Frarey you can learn more about the art of trolling;
And when was it any of your business what and why I do something?
In a shocking turn of events, it's now reported that the raw footage of the Project Veritas video shows a completely different story than what they claimed, and the subject is saying that he was offered a bribe to say that he was collecting ballots for Ilhan Omar: https://www.fox9.com/news/subject-of...-offered-bribe
"It is clear from the raw video, obtained by FOX 9, that Liban Osman was working for his brother’s campaign. Liban Osman admits the Project Veritas video footage looks incriminating, but he said the group deliberately left the full context on the cutting room floor. Project Veritas used two separate videos he posted on Snapchat while driving in his car to make it appear as if he was illegally picking up ballots and offering money for votes, he said."
"In a second report from Project Veritas, surreptitiously recorded video shows a man receiving $200 in “pocket money” in exchange for his agreement to vote for Ilhan Omar. But two sources tell the FOX 9 Investigators the man is a relative of Omar Jamal, and that during the encounter outside Cedar Riverside Apartments, it is Jamal who is handing the man $200 which was intended for the family of a sick relative in Somalia."
"For his part, Omar Jamal has used his appearance in the Project Veritas reports to raise nearly $30,000. In an interview with Somali American TV, he reportedly backtracked on claims he witnessed cash being exchanged for ballots."
It's almost like every single other Project Veritas video where they lie, deliberately leave out context, and deceptively edit the video to create a false narrative! Who could have seen this coming?
The list of papers that the analysis is based on and where they are published BMJ etc is at the bottom of the page.
Yes I saw the list. My point is that I do not have the resources to fact-check this list of papers. It would take me days and I don't have the time available.
[QUOTE=Sid Belzberg;n211271]Clearly, you have not checked out the entire website. We provide complete analysis of Ivermetcin Vitamin D HCQ Vitamin C Zinc PVP-I REGN LY-COV and Remdesivir.The tabs for each of these treatments is at the top of the page.[QUOTE=Sid Belzberg;n211271]
Yes and for every one of them they conclude that they are beneficial. I did go through the list. An impartial website would be listing treatments that give positive results and treatments to avoid or say that there is no conclusive evidence that it helps.
I noticed that you said "We provide" and not "They provide". Are you one of the sponsors of this site?
And this just astounds me. Are you saying that you you are in FAVOR of getting as many kids and young adults infected as possible in the name of herd immunity?
It is one thing to be promoting medications whose efficacy are questionable. At least most of them are relatively safe to consume at prescribed levels, so possible harm can be minimal. Take all the pills you want. But to promote that we should get more people infected is to promote getting people killed. Even if the populations in question have little chance of dying, there is NO WAY to safely isolate our at-risk populations from all of these infected people. We can't prevent outbreaks in our senior residences now with only 3% of Ontarians infected, despite daily testing of every person going into those homes. What do you think will happen if that number climbs to 30%? The current death rate will look like a pleasant dream. To top it off, even if we could pull it off, achieve herd immunity within the younger population, you have not done so for the elder population who are living together in these homes. So if an outbreak occurs within these close communities (which will happen, just like with measles among Orthodox Jews in NYC in 2019) it will rip through them just like now. You are promoting a policy that will KILL people.
I just pray that the vaccines will work. That is a tool that can safely generate herd immunity safely, starting with those at the most risk. I will be watching results in Israel very closely over the next 2 months.
I will be watching results in Israel very closely over the next 2 months.
...and in the UAE...so far, the infection rate is higher in both countries, than what it was when they started vaccinating....let's hope the news over the coming weeks is good...
"Okay, but here's a video where they say that they aren't lying!"
I literally can't find a single article about this, and I'm not really sure why you're still talking about it. Nothing whatsoever has come from the investigation, and it's been almost four months since the main source backtracked on his claims: https://sahanjournal.com/digital-dis...ng-omar-jamal/
In the Somali American TV interview, the show’s host, Ali Harare, asks Omar Jamal whether he met anyone who received cash in exchange for a vote.
He replies no.
And just to reiterate: Project Veritas lie EVERY SINGLE TIME. I already posted proof of this, but you're still using them to try to support your claims. It's truly bizarre.
Here's a Project Veritas video edited to make it look like a Washington Post reporter is running away from James O'Keefe and dodging his questions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWptWsSzSh4
Here's what the unedited footage looks like, where it becomes clear that Project Veritas told him to make an appointment to interview O'Keefe, and when the reporter arrive, O'Keefe tried to hijack the interview: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...a3e_story.html
This whole thing came after Project Veritas tried to plant a fake story in the Washington Post, but all that ended up happening was they showed how diligent WP's reporters actually are because they quickly found out it was a lie.
Then there was the ACORN video, which the California attorney general concluded had been "severely edited." James O'Keefe falsely portrayed an employee as engaging in human trafficking, and ultimately settled to pay the employee $100,000.
Then there was the time he planned to secretly film and seduce CNN correspondent Abbie Boudreau, and after publicly denying this, paid a Project Veritas executive a five-figure settlement so that she wouldn't reveal the details of his plan.
The list goes on. Even Fox News describes them as "a controversial group that has produced a number of misleading videos." I would be amazed if any legal action comes from anything they report on, unless it's aimed at Project Veritas itself.
Also, just so you know, this is a well known tactic from James O'Keefe: he'll brag about all the inaccuracies and retractions in articles about Project Veritas, but they're always minor things, and these sort of retractions happen all the time. None of it changes the fact that their videos are bullshit and they lie constantly.
Yes and for every one of them they conclude that they are beneficial. I did go through the list. An impartial website would be listing treatments that give positive results and treatments to avoid or say that there is no conclusive evidence that it helps.
Garland, as I said we have meta-analysis studies at https://c19study.com on COVID-19 studies: IvermectinVitamin DHCQVitamin CZincPVP-IREGNLY-CoVRemdesivir all of the studies include both negative and positive studies. In the case of IVM negative studies do not exist else we would include them. If you are aware of any negative studies you are free to contact the site and submit as with any treatment we are tracking. Our website is used by world-class medical institutions around the world as a source of information including the IHU-Meditteranee-infection https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/en/ a world-leading institution on infectious disease research.
You are making false/incorrect statements about bias in our research and this needs to stop. I am involved on a part-time volunteer basis with a leading group of infectious disease epidemiologists and Dr's who work at or have graduated from Ivy League universities including Yale, Harvard and others. Within our group is a subset that is in charge of the website. I have developed AI document summarizing technology that assists with the group's research. Our AI technology is now being considered at several large pharmaceutical companies as well as large governmental institutions
Well, I would say it is because of what is written in Bloomberg Magazine
Like with so many articles they omit the most important point. South Korea adopted early intervention including HCQ+Zn +antibiotic combo therapies in
addition to lockdowns and have a far lower CFR and deaths per million rate than Canada that has adopted a policy of therapeutic nihilism coupled with
strict lockdowns. Other dramatic results for countries that have adopted early intervention on a large scale as well as prophylaxis include India and Saudi Arabia
as well as many other middle eastern countries. They all have much better deaths per million and case fatality rates compared to Canada.
Dr's would love to prescribe except health Canada has deemed it illegal for Dr's to treat patients early as per the CCP controlled World Homicide Organizations policy aka WHO.
This includes treatments like IVM and HCQ. In fact, in Quebec eldercare centers the policy is to discourage vitamin D and zinc notwithstanding that nearly all COVID victims are seriously zinc and vitamin D3 deficient. Please go to the D3 section of our c19study.com if you have any doubts about the efficacy of this that you so arrogantly proclaim as "questionable"
Are you saying that you are in FAVOR of getting as many kids and young adults infected as possible in the name of herd immunity?
I corrected a typo in your quote. That statement is somewhat out of context. In a country where early intervention is not a policy, I would not be in favor of that. Why would I want everyone to get infected and then force Dr's to sit there with their thumbs up their asses doing nothing to treat elderly people or other high-risk groups that might catch it as well?
The policy I would advocate is that if early intervention is allowed and promoted and proven to work I would have no compunction to encourage herd immunity as the risk to those getting infected would be very very low. By the way, I can assure you that was the context of Dr. Alexander's statements.
No, my friend, I don't know about you but govt's around the world that has adopted a policy of therapeutic nihilism have already unnecessarily KILLED people, 2,199,099 deaths to be exact that could easily be considered a genocide/eldercide of epic proportions.
This does not include drug overdoses and suicides from lockdowns made necessary as a result of these insane govt policies.
And, where do you get off promoting a govt policy that interferes in the Dr. Patient relationship? That is a policy that KILLS people.
So far they have a far greater proportion Vaccine Adverse Event Reports (VAERS) than any other vaccine out there. Check out The VAERS section of CDC website. You can download the list, it is horrifying. You don't need to monitor Israel just check out the site Furthermore, it is an experimental vaccine and we have no data on Pathogenic priming and ADE, namely what happens to an inoculated person when they are exposed to a wild-type mutant virus say six months down the road. Sars 1 MRNA vaccines were abandoned when animal trials failed in this regard. No published animal trials are out yet for the current Pfizer and Moderna experimental vaccines that are now being distributed widely for human trials.
So you are advocating subjecting people to an untested experimental vaccine when by your own statement on early intervention treatments "At least most of them are relatively safe to consume at prescribed levels, so possible harm can be minimal." instead of trying early intervention therapies first that have a strong safety profile and have already been successfully adopted in many other countries. Check out IVM use in India, Saudia Arabia, as well as recent decisions in The Czech Republic and Mexico to adapt IVM on a large scale. By the way, the inventor of IVM won the Nobel prize in medicine in 2015, and even the WHO considers it a safe drug.
You might be interested in this story on CNN .... German Officials recommend not vaccinating people over 65. It is an experimental vaccine without enough data. Since the vaccine does not prevent transmission and treats symptoms only please explain who exactly do you want to vaccinate????
And when was it any of your business what and why I do something?
By asking me that question, and not answering my questions, you prove that you are not at all concerned with saving lives. Because if you were, you'd have no trouble explaining, and with wanting to explain, why your time is being spent here in the effort of saving lives when ChessTalk has no influence on Ontario's covid policies.
Maybe it would take Garland himself to ask you the question as to why you are here proselytizing to him. But no, I just don't think you have a good answer for it. That is, an answer that jives with your so-called desire to save lives.
By asking me that question, and not answering my questions, you prove that you are not at all concerned with saving lives. Because if you were, you'd have no trouble explaining, and with wanting to explain, why your time is being spent here in the effort of saving lives when ChessTalk has no influence on Ontario's covid policies.
Maybe it would take Garland himself to ask you the question as to why you are here proselytizing to him. But no, I just don't think you have a good answer for it. That is, an answer that jives with your so-called desire to save lives.
I don't owe you an answer for things that are none of your business. Stop trolling me.
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