Trump: Set to declare 2024 presidential bid tonight; will indictments follow soon?

[Peter McKillop]

Skepticism—the last refuge of the ignorant. How delightful that you questioned my accuracy, allowing me to elucidate your stupidity. The link you so fervently demanded should now be gracing your screen. Weasel words? Even a weasel knows better than to speak without knowing."

https://forum.chesstalk.com/forum/ch...884#post222884

The above post looks a lot different than the one I read yesterday. Looks like Slippery Sid returned this morning and substantially altered his wording. I read through the post you linked to and didn't see any comment by Frank that could be construed as "Frank seems to think that trampling defenseless women with horses was a richly deserved fate." This weasel is guilty, every once in a while, of speaking without knowing. But this weasel also knows when he's dealing with a liar and a bully.

[Sid Belzberg]

The above post looks a lot different than the one I read yesterday. Looks like Slippery Sid returned this morning and substantially altered his wording. I read through the post you linked to and didn't see any comment by Frank that could be construed as "Frank seems to think that trampling defenseless women with horses was a richly deserved fate." This weasel is guilty, every once in a while, of speaking without knowing. But this weasel also knows when he's dealing with a liar and a bully.

and didn't see any comment by Frank that could be construed as "Frank seems to think that trampling defenseless women with horses was a richly deserved fate."

Such a big surprise

[Peter McKillop]

Such a big surprise

No reply. Just copying the above for the record in case Slippery Sid opts for another early morning editing job.

[Sid Belzberg]

No reply. Just copying the above for the record in case Slippery Sid opts for another early morning editing job.

Peter, please mask up tightly with triple masks and take your ninth jab.

[Peter McKillop]

Peter, please mask up tightly with triple masks and take your ninth jab.

LOL. Okay, that's a good one!

[Bob Armstrong]

The Nature of Libertarianism



Question: Is Libertarianism fundamentally Fascism? (See Pargat Perrer Post # 159 - 23/8/28)

My Response

CT has a thread on Human Self-Government (The problem: NWO/GR) which is very active.

https://forum.chesstalk.com/forum/ch...e20#post228874

One main focus recently has been to compile a set of 8 Statements generally accepted by Libertarians in that CT'er group.

So I have responded to this question there - Post # 292 - 23/8/31.

Bob A

[Bob Armstrong]

Capitalism vs Communism (Old-style USSR)

Analyzing China's History



Response to Sid Belzberg Post # 163 - 23/8/28

1. Sid: "The idea that communism has been beneficial for the Chinese people is indeed a grotesque claim that glosses over enormous human suffering."

My Response: See No. 3 below.

2. Sid: "While it's true that China has seen significant economic development in recent years, crediting communism for these advancements while conveniently neglecting to mention this growth accelerated after the reforms enacted by Deng Xiaoping, which moved China away from pure communism towards a market-oriented economy. Hence, attributing economic growth solely to communism is misleading."

Response: Agreed

3. Sid: [Crediting Communism] "neglects the enormous human toll it has taken that is not only intellectually dishonest but it's also morally indefensible."

Response: It is a question whether eternal poverty and suffering in the country on the globe with, at the time, the by far largest population, cannot be overcome, if it requires enormous human toll. My answer is that revolution against Exploitative Capitalism was justified, given the long-time intransigence of the Chinese government. The Revolution of Mao Zedong was justified; in revolutions, it is true that the collateral damage is unfortunate.

4. Sid (# 1) : "The 'Better' Communism Hypothesis: The suggestion that communism would have worked better under different leadership overlooks the systemic issues inherent in the ideology. Issues such as centralized planning, suppression of individual rights, and lack of incentive for productivity are structural challenges that wouldn't be remedied by a change in leadership."

I will continue to analyze Sid's position in future (Out of time):

1. Lenin's Worries About Stalin: While Lenin did express reservations about Stalin, it's worth noting that Lenin himself was also responsible for acts of repression, such as the Red Terror, which involved mass killings, torture, and repression.
2. Human Cost: The acknowledgment that tens of millions died under Mao and Stalin is not reconcilable with the softer language suggesting the systems made lives "better" for some. Human life should not be viewed as expendable in the pursuit of ideological goals.
3. Selective Presentation of Allies' Role: While Frank mentions Western aid to the USSR during World War II, it doesn't highlight that the Soviet regime was also given the tacit allowance to subjugate Eastern Europe under its sphere of influence post-WWII, leading to decades of repressive regimes in those countries.
4. Economic Improvement in China: While it is true that China has seen significant economic improvement, this growth accelerated after the reforms enacted by Deng Xiaoping, which moved China away from pure communism towards a market-oriented economy. Hence, attributing economic growth solely to communism is misleading.
5. Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang: The depiction of Chiang Kai-Shek as a "venal fascist style of leader" oversimplifies a complex history. While Chiang's rule had significant issues, including corruption and authoritarianism, it is worth noting that Taiwan, where the Kuomintang retreated, is now a thriving democracy.
6. Assumption of Western Help: While Frank suggests that Mao and Stalin received significant Western help, this point is somewhat overstated, particularly in the case of Mao, whose regime was at odds with the West for much of its early history.
7. Human Cost Again: Lastly, the idea of attributing "better" outcomes to an ideology responsible for famines, purges, and re-education campaigns that resulted in millions of deaths is ethically reprehensible.

Crediting communism for advancements that were post-Western-style market reforms while neglecting the enormous human toll it has taken is not only intellectually dishonest, but it's also morally bankrupt.

1. The Great Leap Forward: One of the most catastrophic policies implemented under Mao Zedong was the Great Leap Forward, aimed at rapidly transforming China from an agrarian society into a socialist society through rapid industrialization and collectivization. The policy was a disaster, leading to the largest famine in human history, estimated to have killed between 15 to 45 million people.
2. The Cultural Revolution: This was another disastrous campaign that wreaked havoc on Chinese society. Intellectuals, academics, and anyone deemed "counter-revolutionary" were publicly humiliated, beaten, and often killed. Millions were sent to labor camps, and countless historical and cultural artifacts were destroyed. Estimates suggest that as many as 90 million people died as a direct result.
3. Tiananmen Square: While not as devastating in scale as the previous tragedies, the 1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre exemplified the repressive nature of the Communist regime. Hundreds, if not thousands, of protesters were killed when the government cracked down on demonstrations calling for democratic reforms.
4. Ethnic and Religious Persecutions: The ongoing treatment of Uighurs in Xinjiang, repression in Tibet, and crackdowns on religious groups like Falun Gong are additional black marks against the claim that communism has been good for the Chinese people.
5. Poland's Anti-Semitic Purges: Turning to Poland, the anti-Semitic campaigns in 1968, which affected my family, is another example of the tragedies perpetrated under communist regimes. The event led to the loss of jobs, expulsion from the country, and stripping of citizenship of Polish Jews. This occurred in the broader context of a system that curtailed freedoms, suppressed opposition, and fostered a culture of fear and distrust.
6. Suppression in Eastern Europe: Beyond Poland, the suppression of the Hungarian Revolution in 1956, the invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968, and countless other instances of repression in Eastern Europe further underscore the human costs of communism.

One Source Given: https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/

Bob A

[Peter McKillop]

........

Bob A

Bob, give me one example of a political governance structure that has not resulted in a) the creation of an elite group who wield the power and b) the exploitation, by the elite group, of the powerless and marginalized segments of society. Next year, China's elite will be celebrating 75 years of exploiting the country's weak and marginalized peoples. Canadian economist John Kenneth Galbraith said it best:

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."

p.s. I'm making a comment here about human nature. Any beneficent form of government is bound to be ephemeral due to humankind's flawed nature.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Peter:

Pretty well dead on!

Additional weak comments:

1. Human nature has both a "light" and a "dark" element. When born, we lean towards the light, like a flower. But the unjust traumas of life cause us to be more aware of the "dark side", and we retrench, and believe that self-interest is important (Which it is). But telling healthy self-interest and anti-social self-interest from each other, and deciding to do the right thing, becomes more difficult, the more wounded we become. Some wounded are just amazing at how they survived, and got back to their "light" side.

2. I do believe some political systems inhibit the amount and extent of exploitation by the "elite" (Whomever they may be in any particular system; Capitalism excels at your a) and b)). The systems that do best are "local & small" and have direct democracy (Not representative government). So if the planet were to dissolve nations, and become a planet of "villages", with direct voting on substantial issues, then corruption would be less, and the consequences would be less (Likely hard for a small village to amass an arsenal of nuclear weapons).

This is why I am a Democratic Marxist, though there is only one unregistered DM Party on the planet, and I am the only member of that party.

My 2 cents!

Bob A

[Dilip Panjwani]

Bob, give me one example of a political governance structure that has not resulted in a) the creation of an elite group who wield the power and b) the exploitation, by the elite group, of the powerless and marginalized segments of society. Next year, China's elite will be celebrating 75 years of exploiting the country's weak and marginalized peoples. Canadian economist John Kenneth Galbraith said it best:

"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."

p.s. I'm making a comment here about human nature. Any beneficent form of government is bound to be ephemeral due to humankind's flawed nature.

So well said! The solution to this is to have a system where a government has minimal power, and becoming a politician is not a path to building wealth. As Bob understands well, a system of 'circles within circles' would enable us to have people 'heading' the lean government by rotation (more as a duty towards the community with just ordinary income, and not as a highly privileged position, turning public 'servants' into multi-millionaires). Such a system, in theory, and waiting to be put into practice, in Libertarianism....

[Frank Dixon]

1) Western assistance to Mao (and Kuomintang) that I referred to was during (and shortly after) World War II.

2) Certainly Lenin was far from blameless, I agree. It was Trotsky, in charge of Red forces, who won the Russian Civil War after the 1917 revolution. But with Stalin in charge, after 1924, atrocities in the USSR reached an entirely new brutal level. Between 10 million and 15 million people in the USSR either disappeared, were put to death, sent to forced labor camps, or were genocide victims through starvation when food was available (in Ukraine) before World War II. Some fortunate ones emigrated, mostly to North America.

3) Interesting comparison by Dilip between economies today for Sweden and Canada: one big difference is that Sweden was already a developed nation by 1900. Western Canada was just being settled by farmers then; one family of which (one of my grandfathers) emigrated FROM Sweden!! For example, Canada didn't have a fully paved 2-lane Trans-Canada highway until 1962!!! Sweden stayed out of both World War I and World War II, which saved them tens of thousands of lives and vast resources; Canada took part fully in both wars, right from the starts, with enormous battlefield losses relative to its fairly small population, and sent extraordinary food and weapons resources overseas, to assist. Relative to Sweden, Canada is still very much building its nation. One item very much needed: an alternative road and rail system out of Yellowknife, around the eastern end of Great Slave Lake (the wildfires showed this!!!).

4) Socialized medicine in Canada began in Saskatchewan in 1944, with the provincial governing CCF party (today's NDP) bringing in the first plan. Doctors opposed it strongly, but were eventually persuaded. It was well managed economically. National socialized medicine started in the 1960s with PM Pearson, a Liberal, from a minority government supported by the NDP. The USA, the world's wealthiest large nation, still has nothing comparable; Obamacare is an improvement, to be sure.

5) China's economy is struggling today, after several decades of spectacular growth. They may have reached the limits of a command economy. If they were to move further towards democracy in the coming years, their economy would respond, in my opinion.

[Frank Dixon]

Developments in TrumpWorld, as of September 1, 2023:

1) Donald Trump's 2024 bid for the Republican presidential nomination may be undone by a section of the 14th Amendment, according to David Shribman in the Globe and Mail of Aug. 31.

Mr. Shribman wrote that, based on this Constitutional Amendment, USA political office CANNOT be held by those who took part in an insurrection, or who gave comfort to enemies of the USA; this was drafted three years after the Civil War ended in 1865, largely to prevent former Confederates (the losing side) from seeking office. (The traitor character -- presidential candidate -- from the 1962 movie 'The Manchurian Candidate' would also fit into this category. This movie was banned from general circulation for many years after it was first released. Fascinating work; so relevant today!!!)

There is a legal challenge on this basis currently filed in state court in New Hampshire, the first primary state (mid-January 2024), to keep Trump's name off the primary ballot there.

If a court were to rule that Trump did, in fact, take part in an insurrection (the Capitol riot in 2021), and / or gave comfort (promising pardons to rioters if he were to be re-elected president in 2024, for example), then he would be disqualified from running, or so the claim goes.

2) Two Proud Boys (far right group) leaders who took part in the 2021 Capitol riots were each sentenced to jail terms of 10+ years in Washington yesterday. Only one longer sentence in this matter has been imposed so far.

3) Trump's Georgia election fraud trial is not yet set. Several of the 19 defendants, including former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, are trying to get their trials moved to federal courts, and Meadows voluntarily took the stand this week in Atlanta with this in mind; he was questioned by prosecutors, apparently giving up much useful information which could be used against both him and others, in the future. Some defendants are aiming for an early trial date; Trump wants to separate his trial from theirs.

4) Trump's New York state fraud charges trial has now begun in New York City, with the state Attorney General seeking $250 million in damages, and to shut down the Trump Organization from doing future business in the state. Defendants are Donald Trump, his sons Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, but not daughter Ivanka Trump or son-in-law Jared Kushner. The Trump Organization's former Chief Administrative Officer (a Mr. Weisselbourg) has already been found guilty in this matter (he was fined and served jail time), and will likely testify against his former bosses. A recent news development is the trial prosecution's accusation that Trump inflated his net worth by as much as $2.2 billion, to get more favorable loans terms from banks.

5) Trump's 'Mistresses cover-up' trial is set for April 2024 in New York; on this one, it is the Manhattan District Attorney in charge.

6) Trump's federal election interference trial is set to start in Washington on March 4, 2024. There are more than 11 million pieces of evidence transferred so far from the team headed by Special Counsel Jack Smith to the Trump defense team, which had asked for more time (April 2026). The Super Tuesday Primary date (with 15 states holding their primaries) is the next day.

There is MORE, but life is short!

[Bob Armstrong]

Sid Belzberg (CT/Trump Thread Post # 163 - 23/8/28) and I (Post # 172 - 23/8/31) have been discussing Capitalism vs Communism (Old-style USSR): Analyzing China's History.


But I feel this discussion should be taking place in the CT thread: New World Order (NWO), sometimes called the Great Reset.

So I have copied my post to there, and will continue to respond to Sid there now.

Bob A

[Bob Armstrong]

Legal Problems - Civil

Trump, Enraged by $83.3 Million Judgment, Is Interviewing New Lawyers For His Appeal of ‘Ridiculous and Unfair’ Award to E. Jean Carroll


Mr. Trump, according to recent reports, racked up $50 million in legal fees last year, which have been paid for by his campaign.


https://www.nysun.com/article/trump-...0%202024-02-02

Bob A

[Bob Armstrong]

Legal Problems - Criminal

Trump Wins Major Round Against Jack Smith’s Rush To Convict Him Before Election, as Ex-President’s March 6 Trial Date Is No More

The special prosecutor’s floundering, though, could clear the way for the Manhattan district attorney to usurp his spot with the Stormy Daniels case.


https://www.nysun.com/article/trump-...0%202024-02-02

Bob A