New World Order (NWO), sometimes called the Great Reset

[Bob Armstrong]

Dilip:

Give me time to think on this.........

But you do not seem to have a very high opinion of the majority of Canadian working families...........the most recent survey said that over 1/2 working Canadians had less that $ 200 savings in the bank to meet unexpected expenses.........they live paycheck to paycheck.......I guess these are the ones limited by "laziness and lack of discipline and ability" (Your words - Post # 315 - 23/9/7)?

Bob A (As Participant)

[Sid Belzberg]

majority of Canadian working families...........the most recent survey said that over 1/2 working Canadians had less that $ 200 savings in the bank to meet unexpected expenses.

But things will be just peachy for them under a Marxist system.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Sid (Re Post # 317 - 23/9/7)

No Sid - DM does not have any intention of establishing a utopia - that is for the ideologue theorists.........



But the wage gap will definitely narrow.........world wars will be more difficult to engage in, as will local wars...........those wielding power will have less opportunity for corruption (No political system will eradicate it)...........the worker will finally be paid something commensurate with their labour contribution to society.

Of course, the ordinary resident of the planet is interested in this result of electing a DM Government...........not very much at all, the current elite wielding power under Capitalism and exploiting all workers.

Bob A (DM'er)

[Dilip Panjwani]

Dilip:

Give me time to think on this.........

But you do not seem to have a very high opinion of the majority of Canadian working families...........the most recent survey said that over 1/2 working Canadians had less that $ 200 savings in the bank to meet unexpected expenses.........they live paycheck to paycheck.......I guess these are the ones limited by "laziness and lack of discipline and ability" (Your words - Post # 315 - 23/9/7)?

Bob A (As Participant)

Bob,
We both agree that if a hard and smart-working, disciplined family is unable to live comfortably, then something is wrong with the system we are following. Your DM can only make things worse, because in it people will be always struggling to get a decent portion of an ever-shrinking common pie; and DM will definitely make the common pie shrink rapidly, as running anything efficiently will become the government's business, and for the bunch of government appointed administrators who do not have their own skin at stake if the system is a mess, the only task will be to convince everyone that the system is very very expensive to run; take for example our government-run health care system: being in it ever since I came to Canada decades ago, I know the huge amount of sheer waste there is in it... patients could be provided with much better care at half the cost, if it is run the way private medicine used to be practiced when I was a child and youngster in a lower middle-class family in India... my family and other families in our community always felt assured that they could afford all the necessary health-care even though they had limited financial means... the secret to success in that system was efficiency, and absence of bureaucracy! The 'success' of the health care providers depended on how efficient they were, not on how cunning they were in manipulating a bureaucratically run system... their 'success' depended upon keeping their patients happy, not on keeping their bureaucratic masters happy!

[Bob Armstrong]

The Current Canadian Capitalist System

Fact

50% of Canadians work hard, and save next to nothing.......living paycheck to paycheck.

Dilip Panjwani - Post # 319 - 23/9/7

"We [Bob A & Dilip) both agree that if a hard and smart-working, disciplined family is unable to live comfortably, then something is wrong with the system we are following."

Response

We have found another Statement on which, at least, you and I agree..........so I will propose this as a new HS-G Statement.

I fear that the issue is not efficiency and excess spending (Though your comments seems valid re socialized medicine, even so, no Canadian is willing to opt instead for the USA Health Care model, except you and some extreme, wealthy Canadian Oligarchs). It is the very dynamic of Capitalism which MUST keep some pool of poor, for there to be a much smaller pool of rich.......this drives ever wider, by necessity, the wage gap. This is why Capitalist Social Democracy arose ........ to try to find ways within Capitalism to moderate the rate of divergence between the haves and the have-nots.

Replacing Capitalism with some type of Democratic Socialism seems at least a first step on a cure.

Bob A (DM'er; as Participant)

[Bob Armstrong]

Statements Generally Accepted by Democratic Marxists in a tournament chess players group on the Canadian national chess discussion board, ChessTalk (Non-Chess Forum). The CT'ers are discussing Human Self-Government and the New World Order/Great Reset problem.They represent the partisan political spectrum and the issue spectrum.



Statement # 2

Democratic Marxism respects:

a. Human Rights

b. Constitutional Rights

c. Worker's Rights

d. Rights accorded by law.

Processing

Within one week No CT'er has launched neither a "Revision Challenge" nor an "Opposition Challenge".

Conclusion

This Statement # 2 is generally accepted and joins the list of DM Statements.

Bob A (As Group Secretary)

[Bob Armstrong]

Statements Generally Accepted by Democratic Marxists in a tournament chess players group on the Canadian national chess discussion board, ChessTalk (Non-Chess Forum). The CT'ers are discussing Human Self-Government and the New World Order/Great Reset problem.They represent the partisan political spectrum and the issue spectrum.



Statement # 3

Democratic Marxism respects all religions, and those not adopting religion, but is neutral between them all. DM takes no position on Atheism, Agnosticism or the Theisms. It will not be a theocracy, but a neutral civic administrator.

Supporting Reasons

Government has no business allying itself with any particular Church, Mosque, Temple, Synagogue. But being respectful of Religions, and being neutral religiously in civic administration, does not necessarily mean that government employees must check the unique trappings of their religion at the door of their civic place of employment.

Despite the conflicts resulting from the actions of various religions, both now and historically, it is the case that all religions teach citizens a model of a good life in society (Though adherents more or less adopt the model). Society in general benefits from this, and in the balance, the positive for society has outweighed the negative.

Processing

There shall be one week to Challenge this DM Statement; deadline: Friday, Sept. 15 @ 11:59 PM EDT.

Bob A (As Participant)

[Bob Armstrong]

Statements re Human Self-Governance (NWO/GR)
(Generally accepted by a tournament chess players group on the Canadian national chess discussion board, ChessTalk (Non-Chess Forum). The CT'ers are discussing Human Self-Government and the New World Order/Great Reset problem.They represent the partisan political spectrum and the issue spectrum.)



Statement # 10 (Proposed - Dilip Panjwani - Post # 319 - 23/9/7)

If a hard and smart-working, disciplined family is unable to live comfortably, then something is wrong with their government system being followed.

[Secretarial Note: I have put this Statement forward as Dilip's because it is almost a verbatim quote of him, with some editorial amending to make it a more general statement about government anywhere of any kind. If Dilip disapproves of this, please advise me and I will put it forward under my own name, with some credit to Dilip.]

Supporting Reasons

Dilip Panjwani - Post # 319 - 23/9/7

People will be always struggling to get a decent portion of an ever-shrinking common pie; and the common pie shrinks rapidly despite the running of anything efficiently will become the government's business. But for the bunch of government appointed administrators who do not have their own skin at stake if the system is a mess, the only task will be to convince everyone that the system is very very expensive to run. In this situation it becomes hard for many citizens to live "comfortably".

[Secretarial Note: I have used a quote from Dilip, and edited it to fit as a "Supporting Reason". Dilip is free to give me a substitute or to make whatever revisions he desires, and I will do the editing.]

Supplementary Support 1 - Bob Armstrong - This Post - 23/9/8

Fact

As an example, 50% of Canadians work hard, and save next to nothing.......living paycheck to paycheck. And this in one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. The situation is even much worse in many developing nations.

I fear that the issue causing poverty in the world is not efficiency and excess spending of governments of all types (An example often given is re Canadian socialized medicine. Even if this is so, no Canadian is willing to opt instead for the USA Health Care model, except some extreme, wealthy Canadian Oligarchs). It is the very type of system, not how it is operated (All systems are subject to some inefficiency and luxurious & corrupt spending.

In Capitalism, it is the very dynamic of Capitalism which MUST keep some pool of poor, for there to be a much smaller pool of rich.......this drives ever wider, by necessity, the wage gap. This is why Capitalist Social Democracy arose ........ to try to find ways within Capitalism to moderate the rate of divergence between the haves and the have-nots.

Replacing Capitalism with some type of Democratic Socialism seems at least a first step to citizens living "comfortably".

Processing

There is one week for a "Revision" and/or an "Opposition" Challenge; deadline: Friday, Sept. 15 @ 11:59 PM EDT. Of course, CT'ers can also post a "Supplementary Support".
If there is no Challenge, then the Statement # 10 is generally accepted and joins the list of generally accepted HS-G Statements.


Bob A (Partly as Group Secretary; partly as DM'er/Participant)

[Bob Armstrong]

Statements re Human Self-Governance (NWO/GR)
(Generally accepted by a tournament chess players group on the Canadian national chess discussion board, ChessTalk (Non-Chess Forum). The CT'ers are discussing Human Self-Government and the New World Order/Great Reset problem.They represent the partisan political spectrum and the issue spectrum.)

Statement # 9

When we add "human nature" to "power" in governing, corruption and abuse of power result. This is the reason all political human self-governance structures have resulted in:

I) the creation of an elite group who wield the power, and
II) the exploitation, by the elite group, of the powerless and marginalized segments of society.

Supporting Reasons

Human nature has both a "light" and a "dark" element. When born, we lean towards the light, like a flower. But the unjust traumas of life cause us to be more aware of the "dark side", and we retrench, and believe that self-interest is important (Which it is). But telling healthy self-interest and anti-social self-interest from each other, and deciding to do the right thing, becomes more difficult, the more wounded we become.

Wounded individuals, as well as well-intentioned individuals, get elected in representative government. It is difficult in campaigns to tell the sheep from the goats, or, the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Processing

In one week no CT'er has launched a "Revision" and/or an "Opposition" Challenge.

Conclusion

Statement # 9 is generally accepted and joins the list of generally accepted Statements.


Bob A (As Group Secretary)

[Dilip Panjwani]

Statements re Human Self-Governance (NWO/GR)
(Generally accepted by a tournament chess players group on the Canadian national chess discussion board, ChessTalk (Non-Chess Forum). The CT'ers are discussing Human Self-Government and the New World Order/Great Reset problem.They represent the partisan political spectrum and the issue spectrum.)



Statement # 10 (Proposed - Dilip Panjwani - Post # 319 - 23/9/7)

If a hard and smart-working, disciplined family is unable to live comfortably, then something is wrong with their government system being followed.

[Secretarial Note: I have put this Statement forward as Dilip's because it is almost a verbatim quote of him, with some editorial amending to make it a more general statement about government anywhere of any kind. If Dilip disapproves of this, please advise me and I will put it forward under my own name, with some credit to Dilip.]

Supporting Reasons

Dilip Panjwani - Post # 319 - 23/9/7

People will be always struggling to get a decent portion of an ever-shrinking common pie; and the common pie shrinks rapidly despite the running of anything efficiently will become the government's business. But for the bunch of government appointed administrators who do not have their own skin at stake if the system is a mess, the only task will be to convince everyone that the system is very very expensive to run. In this situation it becomes hard for many citizens to live "comfortably".

[Secretarial Note: I have used a quote from Dilip, and edited it to fit as a "Supporting Reason". Dilip is free to give me a substitute or to make whatever revisions he desires, and I will do the editing.]

Supplementary Support 1 - Bob Armstrong - This Post - 23/9/8

Fact

As an example, 50% of Canadians work hard, and save next to nothing.......living paycheck to paycheck. And this in one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. The situation is even much worse in many developing nations.

I fear that the issue causing poverty in the world is not efficiency and excess spending of governments of all types (An example often given is re Canadian socialized medicine. Even if this is so, no Canadian is willing to opt instead for the USA Health Care model, except some extreme, wealthy Canadian Oligarchs). It is the very type of system, not how it is operated (All systems are subject to some inefficiency and luxurious & corrupt spending.

In Capitalism, it is the very dynamic of Capitalism which MUST keep some pool of poor, for there to be a much smaller pool of rich.......this drives ever wider, by necessity, the wage gap. This is why Capitalist Social Democracy arose ........ to try to find ways within Capitalism to moderate the rate of divergence between the haves and the have-nots.

Replacing Capitalism with some type of Democratic Socialism seems at least a first step to citizens living "comfortably".

Processing

There is one week for a "Revision" and/or an "Opposition" Challenge; deadline: Friday, Sept. 15 @ 11:59 PM EDT. Of course, CT'ers can also post a "Supplementary Support".
If there is no Challenge, then the Statement # 10 is generally accepted and joins the list of generally accepted HS-G Statements.


Bob A (Partly as Group Secretary; partly as DM'er/Participant)

Bob,
You are not doing justice to your endeavor, but are only losing sight of the forest for the trees. You just refuse to accept the simple fact that DM is much worse than even Capitalism, because while Capitalism may not make everyone happy as in it everyone cannot bake a big pie for themselves, DM makes everyone unhappy by shrinking the only possible common pie to almost nothing...

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Dilip:

If you noticed, I have made the Statement partisan neutral. It is referring to all political systems..........all are subject to the general limitations of human institutions.

So have I done justice to your view in my Statement and Reasons for you?........if not, advise me what changes you prefer.

I (As Participant) think we have to agree to disagree on baking pies.

Bob A (As Group Secretary)

[Bob Armstrong]

Societal Structure/Governance – A Fundamental Shift

Democratic Marxism Discussion Paper # 1

Original: 20/4/14; Recent Revision: 21/6/27

Note: cyclically re-posted for the benefit of new DMGI members.



Basic PremiseS

Democratic Marxism, in the view of the DM Global Institute (DMGI), has 3 basic premises

1. Democracy: An open multi-party system, with one resident having one vote.
2. The Principle of Subsidiarity – A Local Political Unit (LPU) has the right and jurisdiction to do anything for itself of which it is capable. Two or more LPU's may form a separate coalition body at a higher level, when something is required which an LPU is unable to do, or do efficiently, on its own.
3. Economic Priority: Labour is to be predominant over Capital.

The Local Political Unit (LPU)

1. LPU Description

Primarily this will be a group of residents within a geographic area (Though it may be that an “Interest” Group may qualify). An LPU may be quite small, but should be large enough to be capable of providing for the basic needs of its “members”. This was once the case in earlier Canada when there were quite small, legally-incorporated villages and townships.....they had their own governance and tried to provide for the daily life of the community. Many had their own “community centres”. DM prefers a return to these types of smaller geographic LPU's, over the megalopolis city and regional government structures now so prevalent. The decentralization of society will be controversial and many devils will be in the details......but it can be done democratically by vote of the whole society on the final positioning....all must be satisfied that the new model of governance is implemented as intended.

2. The Locus of Control

The issue here is local control. We know that the larger the community, the less strong the link between elected representatives and the individual elector. The goal here is to keep control within the elector.....might some smaller units look at direct democracy over governing by “representation”?

3. Application to a Canadian Setting

Could there be a variety of types of LPU's? Let's look at Canada - Could a first nation be an LPU? What will be the case when in Northern Ontario, an LPU has a predominance of French-speakers and intends to develop a French culture in their community, as opposed to an Anglo one? What if in the Markham Ontario area, an LPU has a predominance of Chinese languages and intends to develop a Chinese culture in their community, as opposed to either an Anglo or French one? In the past Canada has seen these desires – The Quebec Independence Referenda; the First Nations aspiration for some type of “Intra-Canada Sovereignty”, embedded within the Canadian Constitution. In both cases, the smaller faction wished to have as much power as possible over the life of their membership.

The City of Toronto is Canada's largest city (2 3/4 million [2020] ) and capital city of the Province of Ontario. It is interesting to review its most recent evolution. It was a magnet and just kept growing. And the prevailing philosophy of urban planning was that bigger was better. So prior to its current structure (One large city), it was composed of six separate cheek-to-jowl cities: the smaller Toronto, North York, East York, York, Scarborough and Etobicoke. It is the DM observation of history that the residents of these smaller LPU's were satisfied, more or less, with the governing status quo. The change came because in the structure of the time, a higher level body (The Province of Ontario) had the power of decision re municipal structure within the province – amalgamation of the six municipalities into the current Toronto metropolis became a fact, despite opposition from lower down. The LPU's had no decision-making authority on this. In Ontario, municipalities of any size are “creatures of the province”.

A Power Shift

This is the problem DM is rectifying – that some higher body does not have the power itself, on its own, to make top-down decisions affecting the members of LPU's. Decisions will NOT be top down.

Decision-making power will flow from the bottom up. The higher level coordinating body formed by a number of LPU's will only have the jurisdiction which the lower LPU's forming it, give to it. The existence and funding of the higher body will most likely be time limited. It is a reflection of the Marxian principle that the worker should own the means of production, or , at least, manage it.......the power/decision-making is to be “at the bottom”.

A Global Perspective

In some ways, DM is fighting against globalization, against “The New World Order”. Is it possible that a global embracing of DM might lead to the “withering” of current Nation States? Could the world possibly function as a planet of villages (With only LPU borders)?

Democratic Marxist Global Institute

Author: Bob Armstrong, Interim Coordinator, DM Vetting Committee Chair

Recent Revisions
23/9/7 - DMGI - Reviser: Bob Armstrong

Most Recent Postings
22/11/2 - DMGF
23/9/8 - CT/HSG

Copyright – Democratic Marxist Global Institute - 2020

[Dilip Panjwani]

Maybe this Libertarian guy can instill some wisdom into stubborn Bob's stubborn endeavor...
Pierre Poilievre's Common Sense Convention Keynote Speech:
We don’t know when that election will be, but when it comes, Canadians will have only two options:
A common-sense Conservative government that frees hardworking people to earn powerful paycheques that buy affordable food, gas and homes — in safe communities.
Or:
A reckless coalition – of Trudeau and the NDP – that punishes your work, takes your money, taxes your food, doubles your housing bill. And unleashes crime and chaos in your neighbourhood.

(I think Bob has mentioned in one of his 'statements' the view that common-sense does not work...what DM will have instead is a slew of Marxist laws)

Some interesting facts highlighted by Pierre:
What do you think is the most expensive thing that goes into a new house in, say, Vancouver?

Labour?

Land?

Lumber?



Nope!



Government!



Ça me rappelle l’histoire du garçon qui demande à son père, Papa, c’est quoi une déclaration d’impôt? Papa répond, c’est l’inverse de ton bulletin scolaire. Quand tu as bien travaillé, t’es puni.

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Dilip:

Poilievre's coming government will be a disaster - lower corporate taxes and cuts to both pay for it; shrink the government (Less services, and lowering support program benefits); it is not the elite that will be pained - it will be the ordinary elector.

I hope none of my Statements says: "Common Sense does not work." Please post your source, or withdraw the statement.....makes me look like an idiot generally.........but it is the case, SOMETIMES, that the answer provided by common sense is the wrong answer.

Thanks.

Bob A (As Participant)

[Dilip Panjwani]

Hi Dilip:

Poilievre's coming government will be a disaster - lower corporate taxes and cuts to both pay for it; shrink the government (Less services, and lowering support program benefits); it is not the elite that will be pained - it will be the ordinary elector.

I hope none of my Statements says: "Common Sense does not work." Please post your source, or withdraw the statement.....makes me look like an idiot generally.........but it is the case, SOMETIMES, that the answer provided by common sense is the wrong answer.

Thanks.

Bob A (As Participant)

Source: Your post # 295. If something needs to be withdrawn, it is your criticism that common-sense does not work well in the interpretation of Natural Law... In a way, Pierre disagrees with you on that! Does not matter if SOMETIMES, as you say, stuff can go wrong... nothing in life is perfect....