Collapse of Civilization

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  • Originally posted by Bob Gillanders View Post
    Vlad, that’s a bit creepy. You want to give my underwear to the homeless?

    There are approximately 3 thousand billionaires globally. I don’t believe any of them are in my family or circle of friends, but I am sure many of them are warm and generous people. Research shows that most people are by nature generous, and that greed is more of a learned trait. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule.

    Ever since Reagan’s “government is the enemy” and “trickle-down economics”, bankers, lawyers, and accountants have been busy reducing taxes for the wealthy. Then globalization tipped the scales against government tax authorities, easy movement of wealth to more friendly tax jurisdictions, all legal and applauded by Wall Street. “Greed is good” I believe was the catch phrase. Who could resist?

    So yes Vlad, at this time my billionaire tax is not feasible. I have acknowledged that in previous posts (in other threads). Perhaps it could be phased-in, but I wanted to introduce the concept of “enough is enough”, that there should be a point at which you focus on something other than just more money. Helping others, or just enjoying your wealth.

    Taxation is not theft. This is a silly thing to say. Unless you want government to just print the money required, we should all acknowledge taxation is necessary to pay for government services. What is needed or desired is a different debate.

    Let’s look more closely at my billionaire tax. It is literally “a billion $’s” from the socialist scheme you assign it. The tax is above and beyond all other taxes, but only affects those who have wealth exceeding $1,000,000,000.

    If your wealth is $ 999,000,000 you pay zero.
    If your wealth is $ 1,000,000,001 you pay $1.

    So, billionaires can keep a billion dollars forever.
    Earning say 5%, they have $ 50,000,000 spending money per year.
    Now if they spend only $ 49,999,900, there will be a tax bill of $100.
    But here is the genius part: buy underwear for that homeless guy and pay no tax.
    Hey Bob G,
    If we impose your billionaire's tax on each and every billionaire on this planet, we would collect enough money to distribute about a thousand dollars to each and every human inhabitant in this world, which would last them about a few days to a few months. Instead, if we entrusted all that money to the governments to run some grandiose projects "to save civilization from collapse", the money is likely to disappear even before those projects get started, or at best, soon after they have had some chaotic life (like all government run projects do)... And of course none of the billionaires may work hard to accumulate more than their billion ever again...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post
      Hey Bob G,
      If we impose your billionaire's tax on each and every billionaire on this planet, we would collect enough money to distribute about a thousand dollars to each and every human inhabitant in this world, which would last them about a few days to a few months.
      Once again, Dilip demonstrates his simplistic thinking that ignores simple facts. If everyone on the planet suddenly had a bonus of $1,000 U.S. worth of spending money they didn't have before, the resulting surge in spending would MULTIPLY through the world economy. Dilip simply doesn't realize how the economy works.

      However, I agree that giving out $1,000 to everyone is not the best solution. As if we don't have enough inflation already....



      Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post
      Instead, if we entrusted all that money to the governments to run some grandiose projects "to save civilization from collapse", the money is likely to disappear even before those projects get started, or at best, soon after they have had some chaotic life (like all government run projects do)... And of course none of the billionaires may work hard to accumulate more than their billion ever again...
      The same guy who says U.S. President Ronald Reagan expanded the U.S. military during his term to successfully contain the USSR now says "all government projects disappear either before they get started or soon after they have had some chaotic life".

      The U.S. military IS a government-run project, and even Dilip acknowledges it has brought many benefis to the USA.

      I wonder if Dilip has ever driven on the U.S. interstate highway system. Federal U.S. government project. The Trans Canada Highway is a joint project of all of Canada's provincial governments through which it runs.

      Poof! There goes his argument up in smoke. But if you want more evidence against his foolishness, read this:

      https://www.brookings.edu/articles/g...-half-century/

      Yes, some government projects do fail. But of course, it would be remiss to go without mentioning some of the gigantic CORPORATE boondoggles over the past many decades. Enron, Lehman Brothers, Worldcom, General Motors (bailed out), Chrysler (bailed out)... the list could go on and on. And that's just corporate bankruptcies, there are also the corporate activities that also fell apart without resulting in bankruptcies: BP oil leaks in the Gulf of Mexico, Exxon oil spill in Alaska just to name a few related to the fossil fuel industry.

      Comment


      • ChessTalk

        Collapse of Civilization
        (Started: 23/10/30)

        Weekly Overview

        Notes:
        1.The “Weekly Overview” of the topic is posted for the benefit of new members who may have come in between the “Weekly Overviews”. It provides an executive summary of the issue for new viewers.
        2. The Stats of participation are important to allow all to determine the extent of continuing interest. For thread originators//responders they are important to see if the interest no longer warrants the labour.


        Click image for larger version

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        A. Statistics

        Week # 4 (23/11/20 – 26 [7 days])

        (Sometimes Adjusted for no. of days)

        Weekly Stats:
        .....................................................2023 Average..........................................................2023 Average
        Last Week's......Prior Week's........Views/Day..........Last Week's.....Prior Week's......Responses/Day
        Views/Day........Views/Day.............(4 wks.)............Responses/Day....Resp./Day.......(4 wks.).

        …49........................55.......................40.........................5........................5........................4

        Analysis of Last Week's Stats

        Last week's stats are consistent with those of the prior week, and the 2023 year to date.

        It seems that this new non-chess topic has hit an interest point(it is already at the no. of views per day of our 2 last active threads, Human Self-Government, and, Negative climate change)....good on the initiator, Bob Gillanders (I started the thread for him).

        Civilizations do not collapse overnight........there is a long, steady, continuous deterioration before hand. Then, all of a sudden, the tipping point has been reached, and we get metamorphosis (Like caterpillar to butterfly, only in reverse!). Either Dystopia, or a new empire rising like the Sphinx from the ashes, sometimes worse than the one it replaces.

        Do we care who is going to be in control, as humans battle to survive in an environment more and more hostile to their continued existence (Negative Climate Change; Possible Nuclear War; Pandemics; etc.)? The very collapse of our civilization is on the horizon!

        B. Indicia of a Collapsing Civilization

        Comment below on what the current evidence is that our world's civilization is now collapsing......we'll add some of your ideas here!

        Additional Notes:

        1. The goal of this thread is not to woodshed an opposing view into submission. Every position is entitled to post as it sees fit, regardless of the kind of, and amount of, postings by other positions. What is wanted is serious consideration of all posts........then you decide.
        2. I personally, as the thread originator (After an initiative by Bob Gillanders), am trying to post a new response at least twice per week, but admit my busy schedule means I am sometimes falling short on this. So it is going to be necessary that a number of other CT'ers are posting responses here somewhat regularly.

        Bob A

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post

          Once again, Dilip demonstrates his simplistic thinking that ignores simple facts. If everyone on the planet suddenly had a bonus of $1,000 U.S. worth of spending money they didn't have before, the resulting surge in spending would MULTIPLY through the world economy. Dilip simply doesn't realize how the economy works.

          However, I agree that giving out $1,000 to everyone is not the best solution. As if we don't have enough inflation already....





          The same guy who says U.S. President Ronald Reagan expanded the U.S. military during his term to successfully contain the USSR now says "all government projects disappear either before they get started or soon after they have had some chaotic life".

          The U.S. military IS a government-run project, and even Dilip acknowledges it has brought many benefis to the USA.

          I wonder if Dilip has ever driven on the U.S. interstate highway system. Federal U.S. government project. The Trans Canada Highway is a joint project of all of Canada's provincial governments through which it runs.

          Poof! There goes his argument up in smoke. But if you want more evidence against his foolishness, read this:

          https://www.brookings.edu/articles/g...-half-century/

          Yes, some government projects do fail. But of course, it would be remiss to go without mentioning some of the gigantic CORPORATE boondoggles over the past many decades. Enron, Lehman Brothers, Worldcom, General Motors (bailed out), Chrysler (bailed out)... the list could go on and on. And that's just corporate bankruptcies, there are also the corporate activities that also fell apart without resulting in bankruptcies: BP oil leaks in the Gulf of Mexico, Exxon oil spill in Alaska just to name a few related to the fossil fuel industry.
          Almost all government-run projects 'fail' in the sense that the money initially reasonably allotted to them is never enough, and invariably prematurely runs out, sometimes even before the project really gets going, and the projects which could have been done efficiently by private corporations end up becoming an unnecessarily big burden on the society... As Reagan so wisely said: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help,"
          Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Tuesday, 28th November, 2023, 06:48 AM.

          Comment


          • Without Nitrogen Fertiliser, 75% Of Global Population Will Die Of Starvation

            “We are all going to die of hunger.”

            Unelected globalists at the UN and elsewhere are hell-bent on banning nitrogen fertiliser, without which—according to Time Magazine “Hero of the Environment”, Michael Shellenberger—75% of the global population would die of mass starvation.

            Comment


            • https://twitter.com/DrCartlandcom/st...61729265864850

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              • Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post

                Almost all government-run projects 'fail' in the sense that the money initially reasonably allotted to them is never enough, and invariably prematurely runs out, sometimes even before the project really gets going, and the projects which could have been done efficiently by private corporations end up becoming an unnecessarily big burden on the society... As Reagan so wisely said: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help,"
                LOL now Dilip is resorting to unsupported statements in a desperate attempt to hold something together for his biased viewpoint.

                No public corporation would fund something like the U.S. Federal government's SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program). SNAP provides food benefits to low-income families to supplement their grocery budget and support their health and well-being. Would a private corporation even CARE about such a thing? Not on your life, what profit could there be?

                So in the case of SNAP (and many other cases besides), someone saying "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is a lifesaver. Reagan must be rolling in his grave that his GOP is AGAINST health and nutrition for low-income families ... low-income because of massive corporate profiteering in the good old USA.

                Libertarianism sucks.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post

                  LOL now Dilip is resorting to unsupported statements in a desperate attempt to hold something together for his biased viewpoint.

                  No public corporation would fund something like the U.S. Federal government's SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program). SNAP provides food benefits to low-income families to supplement their grocery budget and support their health and well-being. Would a private corporation even CARE about such a thing? Not on your life, what profit could there be?

                  So in the case of SNAP (and many other cases besides), someone saying "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" is a lifesaver. Reagan must be rolling in his grave that his GOP is AGAINST health and nutrition for low-income families ... low-income because of massive corporate profiteering in the good old USA.

                  Libertarianism sucks.
                  As usual, Paragat, you are talking out of your asshole. In Canada, food banks are privately funded, and almost two million Canadians now rely on them up an astounding 78% from 2019.
                  That is 5% of Canadians (!). What fucking dream world do you live in to think that Governments are so benevolent? The Inquiry Canada Report has released its final report today. It is more than 5000 pages showing that covid was a mass gov assault against people, causing death and injury via irresponsible, reckless, and anti-scientific forced policy .https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/c...ioners-report/. Between this and Carbon Taxes for a non existent climate emergency the Government is responsible for mass democide and now starving its own citizens if not for privately funded food banks.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post

                    As usual, Paragat, you are talking out of your asshole. In Canada, food banks are privately funded, and almost two million Canadians now rely on them up an astounding 78% from 2019.
                    That is 5% of Canadians (!). What fucking dream world do you live in to think that Governments are so benevolent? The Inquiry Canada Report has released its final report today. It is more than 5000 pages showing that covid was a mass gov assault against people, causing death and injury via irresponsible, reckless, and anti-scientific forced policy .https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/c...ioners-report/. Between this and Carbon Taxes for a non existent climate emergency the Government is responsible for mass democide and now starving its own citizens if not for privately funded food banks.

                    And as usual Sid, you don't even bother to read what others write. I wasn't referring to Canada, SNAP is a U.S. federal government program. You live in the U.S., don't you? That' s the "dream world" where government is so benevolent, maybe you should learn about it before you post nonsense. And then read how the GOP wants to eliminate or drastically reduce SNAP.

                    Really, you are worried about starving kids? What are you doing against the GOP agenda to starve kids in USA?

                    And even in Canada, the federal government is involved in food bank funding (although admittedly maybe not enough), maybe you should read these:

                    https://www.canada.ca/en/agriculture...ture-fund.html

                    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...pilot-program/

                    And finally, even when you mention "privately funded" what we are really talking about is non-profits and charitable organizations. So in essence the money is mostly coming from donations from residents. If a corporation makes a donation, they are sure to let the public know about it FOR MARKETING PURPOSES.

                    It's almost Christmas, Sid, maybe you should read A Christmas Carol again .... or for the first time. You know, you remind you of the normal mindset of business owners.
                    Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Thursday, 30th November, 2023, 06:36 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post


                      And as usual Sid, you don't even bother to read what others write. I wasn't referring to Canada, SNAP is a U.S. federal government program. You live in the U.S., don't you? That' s the "dream world" where government is so benevolent, maybe you should learn about it before you post nonsense. And then read how the GOP wants to eliminate or drastically reduce SNAP.

                      Really, you are worried about starving kids? What are you doing against the GOP agenda to starve kids in USA?

                      And even in Canada, the federal government is involved in food bank funding (although admittedly maybe not enough), maybe you should read these:

                      https://www.canada.ca/en/agriculture...ture-fund.html

                      https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...pilot-program/

                      And finally, even when you mention "privately funded" what we are really talking about is non-profits and charitable organizations. So in essence the money is mostly coming from donations from residents. If a corporation makes a donation, they are sure to let the public know about it FOR MARKETING PURPOSES.

                      It's almost Christmas, Sid, maybe you should read A Christmas Carol again .... or for the first time. You know, you remind you of the normal mindset of business owners.
                      As usual, you want to argue without having the ability to understand. Sid clearly mentioned he was referring to the Canadian program. And you fail to understand that the GOPs suggestions for SNAP improvement are simply to ensure that those able-bodied who deliberately prefer to idle away (probably smoking Cannabis while doing so) do not abuse SNAP paid for by hard working Americans...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post

                        As usual, Paragat, you are talking out of your asshole. In Canada, food banks are privately funded, and almost two million Canadians now rely on them up an astounding 78% from 2019.
                        That is 5% of Canadians (!). What fucking dream world do you live in to think that Governments are so benevolent? The Inquiry Canada Report has released its final report today. It is more than 5000 pages showing that covid was a mass gov assault against people, causing death and injury via irresponsible, reckless, and anti-scientific forced policy .https://nationalcitizensinquiry.ca/c...ioners-report/. Between this and Carbon Taxes for a non existent climate emergency the Government is responsible for mass democide and now starving its own citizens if not for privately funded food banks.
                        And Sid, since time immemorial, friends, families, well-wishers, churches and charitable organizations have been appropriately and cost-effectively supporting the needy and enabling them to become self-sufficient, till everything started falling apart when the government stepped in and said: I'm from the government, and I'm here to help!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post
                          As usual, you want to argue without having the ability to understand. Sid clearly mentioned he was referring to the Canadian program.
                          I AM THE ONE who brought up federal food aid, and I AM THE ONE who talked about SNAP in the USA, and then Sid says I don't know what's what because BLAH BLAH BLAH IN CANADA!

                          LOL you and Sid just need one more to make a new Three Stooges!



                          Originally posted by Dilip Panjwani View Post
                          And you fail to understand that the GOPs suggestions for SNAP improvement are simply to ensure that those able-bodied who deliberately prefer to idle away (probably smoking Cannabis while doing so) do not abuse SNAP paid for by hard working Americans...
                          Dilip, why don't you just come out and say what's REALLY on your mind?

                          You want anyone who smokes cannabis or is on unemployment or has low income and relies on welfare or government aid of any kind... TO JUST GO INTO THE WOODS AND DIE.

                          YOU WANT THEM ALL DEAD. Starvation is as good a means as any to you.


                          At least Sid pretends he cares about people starving or having their rights violated ... LOL He doesn't give a flying shit unless it is due to climate change measures or covid vaccine policies.

                          You, Dilip, don't even pretend to care. I really don't know who is worse, you or Sid.

                          And NO you liar, the GOP is only worried about CUTTING THE PROGRAM, and doesn't give a shit who suffers as a consequence. You can read about it right here, because I always give references, unlike you who ALWAYS posts BS without any supporting documentation.

                          https://www.cbpp.org/blog/house-repu...ion-low-income
                          Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Friday, 1st December, 2023, 03:38 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post

                            I AM THE ONE who brought up federal food aid, and I AM THE ONE who talked about SNAP in the USA, and then Sid says I don't know what's what because BLAH BLAH BLAH IN CANADA!

                            LOL you and Sid just need one more to make a new Three Stooges!





                            Dilip, why don't you just come out and say what's REALLY on your mind?

                            You want anyone who smokes cannabis or is on unemployment or has low income and relies on welfare or government aid of any kind... TO JUST GO INTO THE WOODS AND DIE.

                            YOU WANT THEM ALL DEAD. Starvation is as good a means as any to you.


                            At least Sid pretends he cares about people starving or having their rights violated ... LOL He doesn't give a flying shit unless it is due to climate change measures or covid vaccine policies.

                            You, Dilip, don't even pretend to care. I really don't know who is worse, you or Sid.

                            And NO you liar, the GOP is only worried about CUTTING THE PROGRAM, and doesn't give a shit who suffers as a consequence. You can read about it right here, because I always give references, unlike you who ALWAYS posts BS without any supporting documentation.

                            https://www.cbpp.org/blog/house-repu...ion-low-income
                            You just proved once again what a nasty troll you are: when you cannot face the truth, you resort to putting lies in others' mouths.
                            And your so-called reference is only political BS written by a Biden stooge who has vested interests in SNAP....

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sid Belzberg View Post
                              ....
                              Your post would have been more informative if you had provided some additional info, e.g.:
                              - who is Dr. Cartland? i.e. why should we believe anything he says?
                              - what committee is Ratcliffe testifying before and what was the date of his testimony? (Cartland's tweet was dated Nov 27, are we supposed to assume Ratcliffe's testimony was on that date?)
                              - according to Cartland, Ratcliffe referred to the Director of National Intelligence in his comments; was he referring to himself in the third person or is there another Director of National Intelligence involved?
                              - what is the name of the Secretary of State to whom Cartland refers?
                              - what is the name of the CDC Director to whom Cartland refers?
                              "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office." - Aesop
                              "Only the dead have seen the end of war." - Plato
                              "If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and Sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination." - Thomas De Quincey

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post

                                I AM THE ONE who brought up federal food aid, and I AM THE ONE who talked about SNAP in the USA, and then Sid says I don't know what's what because BLAH BLAH BLAH IN CANADA!

                                LOL you and Sid just need one more to make a new Three Stooges!





                                Dilip, why don't you just come out and say what's REALLY on your mind?

                                You want anyone who smokes cannabis or is on unemployment or has low income and relies on welfare or government aid of any kind... TO JUST GO INTO THE WOODS AND DIE.

                                YOU WANT THEM ALL DEAD. Starvation is as good a means as any to you.


                                At least Sid pretends he cares about people starving or having their rights violated ... LOL He doesn't give a flying shit unless it is due to climate change measures or covid vaccine policies.

                                You, Dilip, don't even pretend to care. I really don't know who is worse, you or Sid.

                                And NO you liar, the GOP is only worried about CUTTING THE PROGRAM, and doesn't give a shit who suffers as a consequence. You can read about it right here, because I always give references, unlike you who ALWAYS posts BS without any supporting documentation.

                                https://www.cbpp.org/blog/house-repu...ion-low-income
                                Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post
                                I AM THE ONE who brought up federal food aid, and I AM THE ONE who talked about SNAP in the USA, and then Sid says I don't know what's what because BLAH BLAH BLAH IN CANADA
                                You also made this statement that you conveniently omit


                                Originally posted by Pargat Perrer View Post
                                No public corporation would fund something like the U.S. Federal government's SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program). SNAP provides food benefits to low-income families to supplement their grocery budget and support their health and well-being. Would a private corporation even CARE about such a thing? Not on your life, what profit could there be?
                                I presented you with an example of how corporations are huge supporters of the food bank in Canada. In fact the federal Govt in 2022 only accounted for 20% of the budget of around 155 million dollars and almost all of of that was in non food products like feminine hygiene products as per your article.
                                Here is a significant example of how corporations did for the Food Bank of Canada

                                “In 2021, the Calgary Food Bank rescued over 640,000 lbs. of food from Loblaws and Walmart stores in Calgary. We’ve received everything from crackers to yogurt to juice, but most importantly, frozen meat! Meat rescued from retail stores is one of our most consistent sources of protein for our emergency hampers. Every person who comes to the food bank for an emergency hamper gets seven to 10 days’ worth of nutritious food for every member of their family. The food that we rescue from retailers like Loblaw and Walmart ensures that people who are facing food insecurity no longer have to worry about where their next meal is coming from. With their generous support, we will be able to continue feeding our community for weeks and months to come.”
                                – Avaleen Streeton, Food Coordinator, Calgary Food Bank



                                https://foodbankscanada.ca/how-you-c...ood-donations/

                                As I stated if we left it up to the government 5% of Canadians would starve!

                                Meanwhile, your beloved SNAP program in the US has had horrible fraud and abuse problems stealing from the poorest segment of society. Of course
                                what can we expect from a CCP controlled President who received billions through his son from China

                                https://apnews.com/article/mississip...cuments%20show.

                                Originally posted by Paragat}At least Sid [B
                                pretends [/B]he cares about people starving or having their rights violated
                                What a pathetic lie, you filthy communist.
                                Last edited by Sid Belzberg; Friday, 1st December, 2023, 12:38 PM.

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