Life - How Should It Be Viewed?

[Dilip Panjwani]

Hi Pargat:

I am trying to sort out what I would call "your theology".......it is somewhat different..........

1. There is some all-powerful Spiritual Creator.

If it is necessary to postulate a Creator for all the mass and energy in the universe, it would obviously become necessary to postulate a creator of the creator, a creator of the creator of the creator, and so forth into insanity... And if you apply the double standard that we can stop postulating after postulating the first creator, then the obvious question is: Why do you not stop at the existing mass and energy itself, saying that it has always existed in some form or the other, like you postulate about the first creator?
Remember the golden rule when searching for truth: Do not make postulations unless you have to!

2. S/he/It created immortal, non-material, eternal human souls.

For truth-seekers anchored in science (the only reliable path to truth), anything which is non-material (non-mass, non-energy) is fictitious...


3. It is part of the Creator's plan that each soul must go through a period of suffering in a material world (Life in the Multi-verse) to eventually make his/her way back to a spiritual realm (Heaven) to be with the Creator forever.

How cruel of this 'supposed to be benevolent creator'!


4. Most humans incorporate into their material world plan to have a conscience, and to practice understanding and empathy.
5. But, for this suffering to occur, Evil must exist in this material world in order to test us. We are also just materially suffering from the start because we need certain elements just to maintain our human, material life (Air, food, etc.). We also suffer from the fact that as material human beings, we not only have to have Maslow's basic hierarchy of needs, but we have "WANTS, beyond needs", and we sometimes suffer striving to achieve them. Our needs can never be eternally fulfilled here....we must one day die.

What a chaotic system! Deliberately 'created' by this 'supposed to be all-powerful entity'? Even Kamala Harris or any democratic Marxist could have done a better job, eh?


6. To have suffering occur, some humans are allowed to choose to practice evil in their lives as part of the Creator's Plan.(I assume since they are choosing to live evilly to implement the Creator's Plan, there is no blame on them for their choice).
7. All creatures eventually go to Heaven (There is no Hell) and live without any needs ever being unmet.

Death also ends all needs, does it not?




Let me know where I've gotten it wrong.....I've inserted a few elements that seem to me required to make your theology seamless.

I'd be interested in what other CT'ers think of this as a "theology"!

Bob A

Bob, if you are a sincere truth-seeker, and not a 'blind believer' in the theology you incidentally happened to be born into, you will ponder long and hard over the comments above (in bold italics, underlined, below some of your numbered points)...

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Pargat:

I am trying to sort out what I would call "your theology".......it is somewhat different..........

1. There is some all-powerful Spiritual Creator.
2. S/he/It created immortal, non-material, eternal human souls.
3. It is part of the Creator's plan that each soul must go through a period of suffering in a material world (Life in the Multi-verse) to eventually make his/her way back to a spiritual realm (Heaven) to be with the Creator forever.
4. Most humans incorporate into their material world plan to have a conscience, and to practice understanding and empathy.
5. But, for this suffering to occur, Evil must exist in this material world in order to test us. We are also just materially suffering from the start because we need certain elements just to maintain our human, material life (Air, food, etc.). We also suffer from the fact that as material human beings, we not only have to have Maslow's basic hierarchy of needs, but we have "WANTS, beyond needs", and we sometimes suffer striving to achieve them. Our needs can never be eternally fulfilled here....we must one day die.
6. To have suffering occur, some humans are allowed to choose to practice evil in their lives as part of the Creator's Plan.(I assume since they are choosing to live evilly to implement the Creator's Plan, there is no blame on them for their choice).
7. All creatures eventually go to Heaven (There is no Hell) and live without any needs ever being unmet.



Let me know where I've gotten it wrong.....I've inserted a few elements that seem to me required to make your theology seamless.

I'd be interested in what other CT'ers think of this as a "theology"!

Bob A

[Pargat Perrer]

Hi Pargat:

You: on the topic of evil: "evil in human society (necessary for our spiritual growth)".



Interesting point of view........I'm sorry, but I can't remember from your posts, whether you are religious (Meaning that you believe in some omnipotent, spiritual/non-material "Creator"). I normally use "religious" to mean adhering to some religious belief system; I use "spiritual" for someone who does not believe or believes outside of any of the religions.

If you are not religious, are you saying that evil, though a bad thing in humans and human institutions, has the silver lining that it continuously forces us to choose between the good and the evil, and that hopefully, we are rising to the occasion and becoming more confirmed in good living ethics?

If you are religious, did this Creator create evil along with everything else?

You needn't go into this if this is a private issue for you........but I'm curious.

Thanks.

Bob A

Hi Bob, I did post on this in this thread, posts 71, 80 and 84. The first paragraph of post 84 is where I very briefly explain why we incarnate on Earth. We come here to experience hardship, and because we are immortal souls, we very often overestimate how much hardship we can manage. This is why suicides sometimes happen ... we went too far in our plans.

In order for this to work, evil must be permitted on Earth and in fact can never be eradicated from Earth. The very fact that we all need food, water, air means we are fighting for survival at all times, and for some of us, this leads to giving in to evil to achieve our needs, but more importantly, also our WANTS.

On the other side (aka Heaven), nobody strives for riches or wealth because we have all we need or could want already. This physical universe was PURPOSEFULLY engineered by its creator to not allow our needs or wants to ever be fulfilled here.

Case in point: there cannot ever be a perpetual motion machine. There can never be totally free energy (nuclear fusion hold the promise to be free energy, but I think we will find some limitation because it is built into the Universe that nothing is free, everything has a cost, if looked at from a human perspective). Nuclear fusion will turn out to have some limiting cost that we haven't figured out yet.

In the case of extreme evil, -- Hitler, Putin, Stalin etc. -- these are souls that agreed to live such lives in order to ensure that the world keeps being a place of extreme hardship. These souls will never stop coming to bring some new hell to Earth. The Creator has already forgiven them, knowing they are necessary to the spiritual growth of everyone. We wouldn't learn anything here if we all lived lives of total luxury.

Does it mean you can say, "Ok, then I guess I can just do anything I want and even kill others to get what I want in life." Yes, you can say that, but you will only actually go ahead and DO that if you incorporated it into your plan. If you didn't, you will always be unable to live like that, because you put it into your Earth life that you would have things like empathy and understanding and a conscience.

Those of us who live very saintly lives are the opposite of the Hitlers ... they are souls that are here to show us that we are spiritual beings and basically to give us hope despite all the suffering we go through. Most of us are not allowed to remember where we came from. But some people, an increasing number of people thanks to health care technology, can be brought back from death even after many minutes, and remember being greeted on the other side.

[Dilip Panjwani]

Yesterday, the main stream media applauded Biden for going to hurricane ravaged Florida to 'inspect' the damage. He did so at the taxpayers expense, burning precious fuel, and creating un-necessary pollution. He learnt nothing that was not already widely known, and no Floridian was better off from his visit than he/she would have been without it! Another sad commentary on our society's norms...

[Bob Armstrong]

Hi Pargat:

You: on the topic of evil: "evil in human society (necessary for our spiritual growth)".



Interesting point of view........I'm sorry, but I can't remember from your posts, whether you are religious (Meaning that you believe in some omnipotent, spiritual/non-material "Creator"). I normally use "religious" to mean adhering to some religious belief system; I use "spiritual" for someone who does not believe or believes outside of any of the religions.

If you are not religious, are you saying that evil, though a bad thing in humans and human institutions, has the silver lining that it continuously forces us to choose between the good and the evil, and that hopefully, we are rising to the occasion and becoming more confirmed in good living ethics?

If you are religious, did this Creator create evil along with everything else?

You needn't go into this if this is a private issue for you........but I'm curious.

Thanks.

Bob A

[Pargat Perrer]

Movie stars and sports figures do extremely little for the betterment of society... less that what a janitor does, and yet the main-stream media glorifies them beyond all proportion, leading to stupid fans pouring out tons of cash to make these guys & gals very, very rich! A sad commentary on our society's norms...

Totally agree with you about sports figures. We keep hearing that famous sports figures are good because they encourage kids to "stay off the streets" and be involved in sports.

Kids should never want to make a living on the streets in the first place! (by "on the streets", I mean drug dealing, pickpocketing, mugging, etc.). It us up to their parents to instill in them some decent values.

In my opinion, all pro sports should be eradicated. Pro athletes should be rechanneled into working for the good of the planet. We can still have exciting amateur sports, including my favorites hockey and tennis.

I encourage anyone to only support AMATEUR sports. Do not pay $$$ to attend Toronto Make Believes or Toronto You Pays games. Oh yeah and Toronto Raptunes.

For movie stars, not quite the same thing, because often they are portraying roles that expose the evil nature of society. However, given my beliefs about evil in human society (necessary for our spiritual growth), nothing that movie stars or anyone else does will change anything, but if they feel better for trying, good for them.

But Dilip, what you wrote goes against your libertarian beliefs, doesn't it? If these movie stars and athletes are getting rich, they are doing exactly what "smart and hard working" businesspeople are doing. After all, libertarianism does NOT judge the businesses themselves ... only the P&L statements .....

[Pargat Perrer]

Clint Eastwood is like Alice in Wonderland, he gives advice to others that he rarely practices himself,

He owns the following;
Luxury Cars

Clint Eastwood has an extensive and diverse car collection that includes: A Ferrari 365 GT4 Berlinetta Boxer, which he modified by removing the roof as well a
.

• A Ferrari 275 GTB, given to him by Italian producer Dino De Laurentiis
  
  .
• A GMC Typhoon, a high-performance SUV he mentioned on the Jimmy Fallon Show
  .
• An Austin Healey 100M, a classic sports car
  
  .
• A 1955 Cadillac Eldorado Series 62 Convertible, which holds sentimental value as it was bought after his marriage to his first wife, Maggie Johnson
  
  .
• A 1932 Ford Roadster, a vintage hot rod
  
  .
• A 1972 Gran Torino Sport, which was featured in his movie "Gran Torino"
  
  .
• A fully electric Fiat 500e, showing his interest in modern and eco-friendly vehicles
  .

Mansions and Real Estate

Clint Eastwood owns or has owned several luxurious properties:

• A Spanish Revival-style oceanfront estate in Carmel-by-the-Sea, California, which he lived in from 1981 to 1996 and is currently listed for $21 million. This estate features an interior courtyard, vaulted ceilings, a formal dining room, a gourmet kitchen, a temperature-controlled wine room, and multiple outdoor gathering spaces
  
  .
• He has investments in real estate, including a significant stake in the Pebble Beach Golf Links, a golf resort in Carmel, California, which he and his partners acquired for $820 million
  
  .

Other Luxury Interests

In addition to cars and real estate, Eastwood's lifestyle reflects his love for other luxury and leisure activities, such as golf, where he owns a golf course, and his involvement in various high-end business venture

Watches
Clint Eastwood is known for wearing several notable watches, particularly from the Rolex brand. Here are some of the most notable ones:

Rolex "Root Beer" GMT Master

This is perhaps Eastwood's most famous watch. The "Root Beer" GMT Master, also known as the "Clint Eastwood" GMT, features a two-tone brown and gold bezel. Eastwood received this watch from longtime Rolex executive T. Walker Lloyd. It has appeared in several of his films, including:

• Firefox (1982)
• Tightrope (1984)
• In the Line of Fire (1993)
  
  .Rolex Datejust\

In addition to the GMT Master, Eastwood has also been seen wearing a two-tone Rolex Datejust in more recent years, indicating his continued affinity for Rolex watches.



What a hypocrite!

A hypocrite calling another person a hypocrite ... is there a word in English for that?

Sid, maybe if the comments quoted by Bob A. and attributed to Eastwood are recent ... maybe the 94 year old is realizing how useless all his luxuries have been.

In that case, maybe he is leading the younger generation to REVOLT against all forms of materialism. That would really shake up the world at a time when the world seems to need MORE AND MORE consumption to survive.

[Dilip Panjwani]

Movie stars and sports figures do extremely little for the betterment of society... less that what a janitor does, and yet the main-stream media glorifies them beyond all proportion, leading to stupid fans pouring out tons of cash to make these guys & gals very, very rich! A sad commentary on our society's norms...

[Sid Belzberg]

Clint Eastwood is like Alice in Wonderland, he gives advice to others that he rarely practices himself,

He owns the following;
Luxury Cars

Clint Eastwood has an extensive and diverse car collection that includes: A Ferrari 365 GT4 Berlinetta Boxer, which he modified by removing the roof as well a
.

• A Ferrari 275 GTB, given to him by Italian producer Dino De Laurentiis
  
  .
• A GMC Typhoon, a high-performance SUV he mentioned on the Jimmy Fallon Show
  .
• An Austin Healey 100M, a classic sports car
  
  .
• A 1955 Cadillac Eldorado Series 62 Convertible, which holds sentimental value as it was bought after his marriage to his first wife, Maggie Johnson
  
  .
• A 1932 Ford Roadster, a vintage hot rod
  
  .
• A 1972 Gran Torino Sport, which was featured in his movie "Gran Torino"
  
  .
• A fully electric Fiat 500e, showing his interest in modern and eco-friendly vehicles
  .

Mansions and Real Estate

Clint Eastwood owns or has owned several luxurious properties:

• A Spanish Revival-style oceanfront estate in Carmel-by-the-Sea, California, which he lived in from 1981 to 1996 and is currently listed for $21 million. This estate features an interior courtyard, vaulted ceilings, a formal dining room, a gourmet kitchen, a temperature-controlled wine room, and multiple outdoor gathering spaces
  
  .
• He has investments in real estate, including a significant stake in the Pebble Beach Golf Links, a golf resort in Carmel, California, which he and his partners acquired for $820 million
  
  .

Other Luxury Interests

In addition to cars and real estate, Eastwood's lifestyle reflects his love for other luxury and leisure activities, such as golf, where he owns a golf course, and his involvement in various high-end business venture

Watches
Clint Eastwood is known for wearing several notable watches, particularly from the Rolex brand. Here are some of the most notable ones:

Rolex "Root Beer" GMT Master

This is perhaps Eastwood's most famous watch. The "Root Beer" GMT Master, also known as the "Clint Eastwood" GMT, features a two-tone brown and gold bezel. Eastwood received this watch from longtime Rolex executive T. Walker Lloyd. It has appeared in several of his films, including:

• Firefox (1982)
• Tightrope (1984)
• In the Line of Fire (1993)
  
  .Rolex Datejust\

In addition to the GMT Master, Eastwood has also been seen wearing a two-tone Rolex Datejust in more recent years, indicating his continued affinity for Rolex watches.



What a hypocrite!

[Bob Armstrong]

Life and Luxury

Clint Eastwood



This "legendary 94-year old vegan actor has given one of the most important lessons of his life to the younger generations:

"Do not look for luxury in watches or bracelets, do not look for it in villas or sailboats! Luxury is laughing and having friends, luxury is rain on your face, luxury is hugs and kisses. Do not look for luxury in shops, do not look for it in gifts, do not look for it in parties, do not look for it in events! Luxury is being loved by people, luxury is being respected, luxury is having your parents still alive, luxury is being able to play with your grandchildren. Luxury is what money cannot buy."

Quora - Posted by Alessandro 13 on 24/9/3

[Sid Belzberg]

Life

What is it all about anyway?



One Opinion

Matthew McConaughey Motivational Speech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbL0X3B4mjg

Bob A

Thanks for sharing, Bob; inspiring!

[Bob Armstrong]

Life

What is it all about anyway?



One Opinion

Matthew McConaughey Motivational Speech


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbL0X3B4mjg

Bob A

[Bob Armstrong]

Actually I have done a lot of thinking on LIFE, theologically and philosophically. I also have read on the scientific theory of evolution of life on earth (No, I can't give you sources).

So........no I don't just dismiss others' views out of hand........very poor assessment of me, and you've know me for years as a chess friend........

I happen to disagree, and I do try, it is true, to be succinct and not use jargon.

Bob

[Fred Henderson]

I've been giving this a lot of thought, let's see if I can get it right. I present a scholarly paper on the subject matter, which you, BobA, dismiss out of hand, after reading only the first paragraph, the abstract which always contains the conclusion,, not even sniffing at the pages of supporting information and provide absolutely no useful supporting argument of our own, other than a brief tautology, I guess this is how you like to cook up those "commonly agreed upon" facts of yours.

LOL

[Fred Henderson]

What is life?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8376694/

"the laws of ....the composition of matter are universal"

This seems true.

But the Earthly laws of the conditions for life are not necessarily universal.

<snip>

Bob A

Earthly Laws of the conditions of life not universal? Are you sure you are thinking of "earthly" laws? Or are you going to throw The book (of Genesis) or Deepak Chopra at me, then I can see your point.

They are damn close to being universal among scientists, I would say. That was my point.