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Consciousness is a result of brain activity, and has the capacity to generate imagination, reflection, self-awareness, humour and ethics (Non-interference in anti-social ways).
Consciousness generates no activity. It is only a 'passive rider' on what is happening in the brain. Consciousness is not taking decisions for you, it is just aware of some of the decisions your brain is taking, not being aware of what is happening in the subconscious brain activity...
The above is the only scientific conclusion we can draw from the study of neuroscience...
a person with an anti-society profile, can, very unexpectedly, out of nowhere, do an altruistic, self-sacrificing act when such could never have been predicted.
What you are implying is that certain ideas/actions are good and others bad; e.g. according the DM party of Ontario, Marxism is good, but according to others it could be evil, leading to misery for everyone in the society. And 'democratic' Marxism would impose Marxism upon the 49% who may vote against it, by the 51% who vote in its favor. The only idea that each and every human being agrees to is that 'so long as you do not impose your ideas on me, you can continue to have them'... and that is why no human being can really be opposed to be the Natural Law (however much one may try to troll it)!
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Tuesday, 2nd April, 2024, 09:54 AM.
When the brain generates Consciousness, the Consciousness is always only "passive", a database of all that is experienced; it is just a storage spot.
It has no influence on subsequent brain activity. It generates no concepts for the logical brain to consider, based on it seeing patterns in the data, which I assume it DOES do?
Consciousness is of no help to "guiding" the brain activity. All that Consciousness is, is a "result" of brain activity, nothing else.
When the brain generates Consciousness, the Consciousness is always only "passive", a database of all that is experienced; it is just a storage spot.
It has no influence on subsequent brain activity. It generates no concepts for the logical brain to consider, based on it seeing patterns in the data, which I assume it DOES do?
Consciousness is of no help to "guiding" the brain activity. All that Consciousness is, is a "result" of brain activity, nothing else.
I find this very hard to accept.
Bob A
It used to be very hard to accept that the earth rotates around the sun, not the other way around; Galileo was thrown into prison for explaining that...
Consciousness generates no activity. It is only a 'passive rider' on what is happening in the brain. Consciousness is not taking decisions for you, it is just aware of some of the decisions your brain is taking, not being aware of what is happening in the subconscious brain activity...
The above is the only scientific conclusion we can draw from the study of neuroscience...
Totally unproven conjecture. There should be a laugh track accompanying every one of Dilip's posts.
Strange how when a person "loses consciousness" brain activity doesn't just continue as normal.
Hi Bob,
The human brain's capacity to 'imagine', 'reflect' and 'humour' arise because of its ability to make novel connections (apparently random, which means its pre-determinism has not been explained well so far) within its constituent circuits, which computers with artificial intelligence may also have (I am not a computer expert to know for sure... maybe Sid or some computer expert can help us here), but it is an ability which quantum computers are more likely to have, given their properties of superposition and entanglement...
Thus, except for consciousness, everything else, including imagination, reflection and humor, is only complex machinery; consciousness itself also is linked to that machinery, but has additional properties of self-awareness and non-interference with the rest of the complex machinery!!
The human brain's capacity to 'imagine', 'reflect' and 'humour' arise because of its ability to make novel connections (apparently random, which means its pre-determinism has not been explained well so far) within its constituent circuits, which computers with artificial intelligence may also have (I am not a computer expert to know for sure... maybe Sid or some computer expert can help us here), but it is an ability which quantum computers are more likely to have, given their properties of superposition and entanglement...
Hi Dilip
Recent breakthroughs like AlphaZero and BERT showcase the power of learning from random patterns and trial-and-error, similar to how our brains work. AlphaZero does this by analyzing random chess positions and forming a list of the most likely winning patterns. BERT, on the other hand, guesses which words are correct in the middle of a sentence and compares its guesses to the actual words, forming a list of the most probable answers. ChatGPT is similar, except it randomly guesses at the most probable words at the end of a sentence, based on the context of the conversation.
As for quantum computers, unlike classical computers that store data as zeros or ones (bits), quantum computing involves qubits. This means that during a period when it's unknown if something resolves into a wave or particle (superposition), where wave or particle are equated with 0 or 1, quantum computers guess at the probability of which way it resolves. During the period where it makes an assumption, it can process a lot more data in this unknown state by assigning a probabilistic value to it. Of course, these algorithms, being based on probability, involve a lot of error correction when they guess wrong, but even with that, for some problems, it is a faster way to process information.
One could view these unknown states as the universe's way of storing data, where during an unknown state (superposition), the outcome is binary: wave or particle. Hence, quantum consciousness might not be as far-fetched as it appears superficially. If we consider the unknown state as a fundamental way in which the universe processes and stores information, it suggests that the fabric of reality itself might be built upon quantum principles. Extending this concept to the realm of consciousness, it becomes more plausible to consider that the brain might harness these quantum processes to generate thoughts, feelings, and subjective experiences. This perspective also ties in with the idea of the brain making probabilistic guesses and learning from trial-and-error, similar to how quantum computers operate
1. God/Spirituality
2. Family
3. Friends
4. Societal Contribution (In addition to through the above)
5. Hobbies, Entertainment, Private Time
How does this look to you?
Would you need to revise this list for your life? If so, what does it look like?
Any other comments from the CT'er crowd?
Bob A (Theist Community)
P.S. The conversation on the human brain, artificial intelligence, and consciousness has been most enlightening. The apparent consequences of "Determinism", and the jettisoning of "Free Will", are, of course, very problematic for theists of any kind.
1. God/Spirituality
2. Family
3. Friends
4. Societal Contribution (In addition to through the above)
5. Hobbies, Entertainment, Private Time
Bob A (Theist Community)
To which of these categories do your posts on Trump belong? Your tone in those posts is too serious, and only repetitive of widely known news, to fall under 'Entertainment'...
I wonder why does it thrill you so much when a guy is fined half a billion dollars for simply showing his bankers that he is a crazily self-glorifying businessman (which would be their obvious conclusion upon due diligence, which he also recommended them to do), and even if his bankers would have not done done their obvious job of checking out the facts as they defined them, his actions could only have benefitted the bankers, himself and the New York economy, while harming no one?
Just makes one wonder whether there is another high-ranking 'life priority' of yours, which you have not listed above!
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Thursday, 4th April, 2024, 02:05 PM.
It is in my view a societal contribution to post that someone who is running for President of the USA is immoral (Since he CLAIMS to be a Christian). In my view, he USES religion, and is an atheist (Thus he is both amoral and unethical).
Nonetheless, USA without a moral/ethical compass may well elect their Charlatan President (Which also seems to be your wish that they do).
I find Libertarianism without a moral/ethical compass too, if its vaunted "Natural Law" sees no ethical/moral problem here, despite 4 very different criminal cases, and 2 civil court cases (One of which has already found that he has committed the tort of defamation and ordered that he pay a woman a large damages judgment.
Bob A (Society must remain moral/ethical or it is doomed to chaos)
Last edited by Bob Armstrong; Thursday, 4th April, 2024, 02:23 PM.
Bob A (Society must remain moral/ethical or it is doomed to chaos)
Despite realizing that 'Society must remain moral/ethical or it is doomed to chaos', Bob A is a die-hard fan of Marxism, which is neither moral nor ethical (as it glorifies legal theft and suppresses individual liberty), and he is no fan of the Natural Law & Libertarianism, which, by definition, are the most moral and ethical law and system one can have!! He also fails to understand that the underpinning of atheism is faith in morality, ethics and science as being enough to lead to a well-functioning society...
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Thursday, 4th April, 2024, 03:11 PM.
Despite realizing that 'Society must remain moral/ethical or it is doomed to chaos', Bob A is a die-hard fan of Marxism, which is neither moral nor ethical (as it glorifies legal theft and suppresses individual liberty),
What Dilip fails to understand is that taxes are NOT theft if you get something back. Such as infrastructure, good mental health for all citizens, housing support ... these are all things that even entrepreneurs want to see, because it keeps the consumer willing to buy the entrepreneur's goods and services. Such fundamental thinking escapes Dilip, so that Dilip cannot explain why the richest billionaires want to be TAXED MORE!
and he is no fan of the Natural Law & Libertarianism, which, by definition, are the most moral and ethical law and system one can have!!
By definition ... we have already proven that Libertarianism's Natural Law must be against all burning of fossil fuels, because the definition of "fair" has been provided in this very thread by Dilip as not using any means to cause harm to others .... fossil fuels cause harm to others, there is no debate about that. Therefore Libertarianism must legislate against use of fossil fuels.
He also fails to understand that the underpinning of atheism is faith in morality, ethics and science as being enough to lead to a well-functioning society...
This denies the key aspect of every human soul ... the need for spiritual sustenance. Even in places like China and Russia, you see underground spiritual related activities, probably going on far more than reported.
A 100% atheistic society, devoid of any spiritual activity, would be a machine. Everyone in the machine would be a mechanical part, with no feeling, no morality, no ethics. And the very teaching of these values ... in only science, only technology, only enterprise, in man as lone ruler of the Universe ... is a form of religion, in effect a cult, with man as the Godhead. There will always be those who believe in this ... and their souls are empty, devoid of any humanity.
This is why Dilip can talk down his nose that those who are needing support of the government to live because of circumstances beyond their control. They are lumped into one parcel by Dilip and his kind: characterized as lazy, good-for-nothing, couch potatoes, useless eaters.
The quest of the man-led machine? Immortality, even if it takes the form of your "soul" being digitally downloaded into a non-organic robot. Somehow they think this would be a means to "live forever" in this universe.
EDIT: I think Star Trek The Next Generation covered this with their conception of The Borg. ??? "You will be assimilated!"
Last edited by Pargat Perrer; Friday, 5th April, 2024, 02:46 AM.
What Dilip fails to understand is that taxes are NOT theft if you get something back. Such as infrastructure, good mental health for all citizens, housing support ... these are all things that even entrepreneurs want to see, because it keeps the consumer willing to buy the entrepreneur's goods and services. Such fundamental thinking escapes Dilip, so that Dilip cannot explain why the richest billionaires want to be TAXED MORE!
Almost all of the taxation is a form of legal theft; even when politicians use it for infrastructure, etc., it costs the taxpayers enormously more than it would, had it been left to competing entrepreneurs and the 'circles within circles' system of Libertarianism, and wherein those who use the infrastructure more would end up paying for it more also . The recent ArriveCAN fiasco is just one example of such theft...
The falsehood of some billionaires wanting to be taxed more (while actually ending up paying less taxes), was previously explained in this video I had posted on chesstalk: https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/mone...9R?t=7#details
Last edited by Dilip Panjwani; Friday, 5th April, 2024, 08:19 AM.
By definition ... we have already proven that Libertarianism's Natural Law must be against all burning of fossil fuels, because the definition of "fair" has been provided in this very thread by Dilip as not using any means to cause harm to others .... fossil fuels cause harm to others, there is no debate about that. Therefore Libertarianism must legislate against use of fossil fuels.
The Natural Law enforcement would ensure that if any damage is done to the Nature which is owned by all humanity, the ones doing the damage have to appropriately compensate to the others for it.
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