Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

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  • #16
    Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

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    12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
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    * Racism
    * Hatred
    ....
    Chess is driftwood afloat on Lake Placid. Nothing is changing. FIDE is introducing no rule changes. Compare this to the NHL, which annually introduces new rule changes and according to this, is ready to spice up the game a little more:

    http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...artner=ya5nbcs

    Now, why can't FIDE / chess be so welcoming to rule changes to adapt the game to SPECTATOR INTEREST???

    If you really want to know the state of chess, people, here's something Wayne Komer posted from the current World Cup:

    Fabiano Caruana: I was cursing myself for not checking this before the game. I had the position somewhere in my computer and I couldn’t remember whether I should put my bishop on c7 or d8 (move 16). I could have used the time later. You can’t think naturally about the move, you are trying to remember what you had on the computer and recreate it. In the end, I chose the wrong move.

    This about sums up the problem with elite chess today. Rote memorization of lines stored on computer files (here he mentions move 16, it goes way beyond that). Pay attention, kiddies: this is the skill you need to learn to reach the top in chess. MEMORIZE OPENING LINES STORED ON YOUR COMPUTER. THAT IS YOUR FUTURE IF YOU CHOOSE CHESS. Even Kramnik has complained about this.

    And then we have Kasparov (and others) remarking about the low quality of the chess at this level today and the number of blunders being made. It's because no one is learning the art to, as Caruana put it, "think naturally about the move".

    And then we now have more games than ever going 150+ moves per player. It's because no chances are being taken, the game should be drawn, but it now becomes an endurance contest. Damn the spectators, just keep playing dreary dull moves until someone makes a blunder or even a tiny miniscule mistake that leads to a lost game in 20 or 30 Houdini-like moves.

    Nigel, you are posting rubbish to make yourself look so intellectual and savois faire. But Joshua Hu very succinctly and effectively destroyed your garbage with his description of how poker is much more effective than chess at modeling real life and preparing people for real life, and you had no response to that either.

    Chess may be open to everyone, but it is not FOR everyone. Not even close. It increasingly appeals to kids because they (quite understandably) see it as an avenue of creativity, almost infinite. But by the time they leave chess, they realize it is a stale game of memorization and variations on a theme, repeated ad finitum ad nauseum. Anyone who thinks that every game is unique just because it leads to never before encountered positions is deceived. Beneath that veneer of uniqueness is a pattern, a theme, that has been repeated over and over again because standard chess is exhausted of anything truly original.

    But I can tell you, there is a new era of chess to come. And it's not Nigel's phony new era full of lipsticked pigs and kids who drop out never to come back until they are seniors and want to avoid Alzheimer's. No, this new era has something to do with Joshua Hu's great insights about poker.
    Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Monday, 26th August, 2013, 11:29 AM. Reason: violation of guidelines: personal attack, hatred (misogyny)
    Only the rushing is heard...
    Onward flies the bird.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

      Tromso World Cup Semi-Finals

      Monday, August 26, 2013

      The Final Four

      Round Six, Game One

      Andreikin-Tomashevsky 0.5-0.5 14 moves
      Vachier-Lagrave-Kramnik 0.5-0.5 16 moves

      Nigel: It is important that Maxime tries to create some prospects and put on some pressure today.
      Dirk: It is a sure recipe for suffering if you are playing black against Vladimir Kramnik. Maxime is definitely improving his chances by moving to the tie-break. Sometimes he tends to suffer from nervousness and it plays less of a role when he is playing rapidly.
      Dirk: In the other pairing, two young Russians, who know each other very well. They both play for the Saratov Club. They have met in the World Cup Second Round in 2011, with Evgeny going on to the Third.
      They are good friends, does that complicate matters? It is difficult to play against a friend?
      Nigel: I don’t agree with Victor Korchnoi, who likes to hate his opponents. I prefer to be in a normal neutral state. I don’t think either of them will have any qualms about defeating the other.
      Dirk: From the previous World Cup there was a problem between Alexander Grischuk and Peter Svidler who were suddenly against each other in the Final. They were very good friends who used to have dinner together each evening and had to cease for a week just because it wouldn’t be natural to keep having dinner together.
      +++++++

      Dirk: People can send comments to us at #chessworldcup and an email address for those not used to tweeting. You have a chance to write more than one sentence by sending your thoughts to us at
      ChessWorldCup2013@gmail.com.
      +++++++

      Dirk: The semi-final consists of two games and the final of four games. Jon Ludvig Hammer told me that if any round should consist of four games, that should be the semi-final. Essentially this round decides two Candidates places. To put some extra value on this round is a very original idea.
      One of the things that won me over to the knockout tournament is that so many of the players who play here, like it. To have a mixture of the Grand Prix tournaments and the knockout is interesting. In recent years the finalists have all been serious players.

      Dirk: An email question: There are so many young chess prodigies are there any players who became grandmasters by playing as an adult? Wasn’t Botvinnik twelve when he picked up the game and wasn’t that considered to be very late?
      Nigel: What does “grandmaster’ mean? There are thousands of grandmasters – well, about 1500 of them. The title is very confusing. You can get it on the basis of two or three good results in your life. You should abolish it as far as I am concerned. Just have ratings.
      The Japanese have Sumo wrestling. If you reach the very top level or yokozuna and you start playing badly, you are forced to retire. I wouldn’t necessarily advocate that. I would rather say that anyone rated over 2500 is a grandmaster. FIDE gets money from these titles, which is why they are not in a hurry to reform the system.

      Tweet: In September 2012, FIDE lists 1380 living Grandmasters. Of these 1353 are male and 27 are female.
      ++++++++++

      Dirk: Does Kramnik always place his knights looking sideways?
      Nigel: Most players have their knights looking forward and some have them looking sideways. There are the aggressive forward-looking knights of Maxime. Vlad has them sideways.
      I played a tournament in Edmonton earlier this year and one of the players, a Dale Haessel, puts his knights backward. I shouldn’t be rude about people on air, but I consider this a great perversion. It should be banned under FIDE rules. But it is very very odd indeed and should be explained.
      +++++++++++

      The MVL and Kramnik game petered out to a draw.

      Nigel: Why not have Sofia Rules?
      Vladimir: I’m not against it, in fact I don’t mind at all. Maybe they don’t make it here because it is a very long tournament. There are very few players who mind. I have told Susan about the Grischuk Strategy; knockout is not the best system for chess. I cannot blame people who use this. I prefer to play round-robin.
      Nigel: There is also the Bilbao System, the football system too, with three points for a win and one for a draw.
      Vladimir: It is an illusion because of this way of counting, to think a player would change his style.
      Dirk: It is understandable that the players need a rest but not so much that the rules allow them to take a quick draw.
      ++++++++

      Nigel: (to Vladimir and Maxime) Laundry!
      Let’s talk about laundry. I should explain to the people watching that we are in a hotel that doesn't have a laundry service. And we have been here for a while.
      Kramnik: I have dried the clothes and today I am planning to iron.
      Dirk: Be careful, we saw Peter Svidler who burned his hand ironing.
      Maxime: I am going to buy some shirts.
      Dirk: We shall compare them tomorrow and see who looks better.
      ++++++++++

      Tomashevsky: Dmitri suggested a draw because he has played 14 of the 15 days of the tournament.
      Nigel: Maxime and Vladimir have said that they have no objection to Sofia Rules – no draw under 30 moves.
      Tomashevsky: In a closed tournament no but in a knockout like this, the participants do need a rest day. Also if you play with full strength in each round, you will have no energy at the end. When there are only two games, it is noticeable. But in an Olympiad or the first stage of this tournament, there will always be players ready to play on and not take the quick draw.
      ++++++++++++

      I think Nigel enjoys being controversial and it ups his value as a player and commentator. Today, he posted this on the English Chess Forum:

      I am disappointed that there hasn't been any criticism of my commentary for a few days. Standards are falling on the EC Forum...

      Some replies:

      - Maybe that's because no-one's been listening to it
      - If there's one thing worse than being criticised, it's not being criticised ....
      - Maybe everyone was watching the cricket? I've found it difficult to keep an interest in following the World Cup matches for some reason. Maybe because there are less games now we are reaching the business end of the tournament?
      +++++++++++

      One presumes that when the Olympiad is on, that they will be doing the laundry at the hotel. If not, chaos!

      Mickey Adams, back from Tromso, posted a blog, of which this is the first paragraph:

      The World Cup was held in a small hotel near Tromso airport: given the eye watering prices in Norway it was suggested to me by a FIDE official that the room rates would have been excessive in the better hotels in the centre where the Olympiad will be sited, although this seemed to be contradicted by the amounts journalists were paying to stay there. The local organisers and staff were helpful, but the big problem was the food, which was not good at all in the hotel, and with only a few shopping centre eating spots as other options nearby, the culinary situation was undesirable. I was one of the players who suffered with an unpleasant stomach bug, which meant I was often forced to skip meals before the games. Of course playing whilst sick is an inevitable occurrence for any professional player but it was annoying at such a big event.
      ++++++++++

      Viewers’ comments

      - Both players that had to play a tiebreak yesterday had white today. So i can understand they wanted a 'rest day' today. While the other two also won't mind drawing with black in a two games match.
      - There may be academic problems with the format, but I can't remember when I enjoyed a tournament this much (with the obvious exception of the candidates).
      - It has been exciting - the most fun I have had following a tournament. I can understand if some players do not find it the best format, but as a spectator, I have had a great time following the games and the commentary.
      - After two weeks of great fights with two of the most thrilling matches I've ever seen we have two (2) short draws. And the chess trolls whine and complain about boredom and the end of chess. Sigh.
      - It really is a sign of the times when people enjoy joke "matches" between players that never would be invited to a top event more than real chess between great players without endless blitz blunders.
      - A complete disgrace. All four players should be disqualified immediately
      - Sorry to plug a competitor, but the Chessbase report on the round today is hilarious. The site just gives the moves of the games and suggests that you play them over in your head.
      - Scandalous! Disgrace! We pay good money to see these performers at work!
 Oh wait, we don't pay them anything.
 After two weeks of free, exciting chess entertainment, indeed somewhat disappointing results today. Stop whining. Tomorrow is another day.
      - Finally someone got to his senses!
      +++++++

      - Mikhail Golubev @mikhail_golubev Kirsan, Makro, Yazici, Berik and other FIDE guys should be happy with today's games (played in accordance with rules) #chessworldcup

      - Magnus Øen Carlsen @MagnusCarlsen Games drawn after 14&16 moves in #chessworldcup. Easy to understand players, who need rest, hard to understand that the rules allow them to

      - MVL @Vachier_Lagrave Quick draw today. Not easy to get Vladimir out of his comfort zone, and here I had no choice but to sterilize as I had no winning chances.

      - Silvio Danailov @SilvioDanailov My article after Candidates tournament in Kazan 2011, which is current nowadays too. Nothing has changed: http://danailov-for-president.com/?
      Last edited by Wayne Komer; Monday, 26th August, 2013, 05:38 PM. Reason: added interviews and comments

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

        Originally posted by Wayne Komer View Post
        ... And now the indiscreet bit! (WK)
        You missed quite a few of these "indiscreet" bits. Of course, unlike today with only 2 hours, there was probably 5 or 6 hours of coverage (including breaks).
        Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

          That didn't seem particularly 'indiscreet' to me, although maybe not the best way of introducing Ms. Repkova. Now if they had described her as Kramnik's CURRENT girlfriend (he's a married man for those who don't know), THAT would have been indiscreet :). Along similar lines, I had to smile when Susan Polgar was talking about Peruvian GM Granda with a straight face earlier in the World Cup, given their history (no secret, it's even in her book 'Breaking Through').

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

            Personal attacks and the kind of misogynist remarks you included aren't acceptable on ChessTalk, Paul. I've quoted the relevant section of the guidelines. If you can't contribute to the discussion here without violating them, then you should find another forum to air your views.
            Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

              I can clarify one small point. Nigel mentioned to me at the Canadian Open that he had been contracted to comment on the World Cup, so the change of commentators was planned ahead of time. In my opinion, Lawrence Trent has been the best announcer so far. Susan Polgar was quite good at explaining positions, tactics and plans so I found it educational to listen to her. Nigel is a bit like Don Cherry, who doesn't care much what he says and consequently has a giant salary and a big audience.
              Paul Leblanc
              Treasurer Chess Foundation of Canada

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                Originally posted by Paul Leblanc View Post
                I can clarify one small point. Nigel mentioned to me at the Canadian Open that he had been contracted to comment on the World Cup, so the change of commentators was planned ahead of time. In my opinion, Lawrence Trent has been the best announcer so far. Susan Polgar was quite good at explaining positions, tactics and plans so I found it educational to listen to her. Nigel is a bit like Don Cherry, who doesn't care much what he says and consequently has a giant salary and a big audience.
                I somewhat agree with you about the comparison to Don Cherry. Cherry has been roundly criticized for expressing contempt for many groups of the Canadian population "notably for the French-speaking Canadians, for the (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered) community and for the immigrants". OTOH, his unconditional and enthusiastic support of the military has won him friends in those quarters.

                If the goal is to have squabbling fiefdoms in the world of chess, such a divisive person is ideal. However, this is a mean-spirited and unprofessional approach. My own view is that chess is, as a sport, an alternative to conflict rather than a means to encourage it.
                Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                  Originally posted by Nigel Hanrahan View Post
                  OTOH, his unconditional and enthusiastic support of the military has won him friends in those quarters.
                  Good thing. If it wasn't for the Canadian support of the military during WWII England might be speaking German these days.
                  Gary Ruben
                  CC - IA and SIM

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                    Being able to speak German is not a bad thing.

                    So for now we have a new Candidate - either Andreikin or Tomashevski will make it to the Candidates, and this is really exciting to see new players. MVL has a terrible task in front of him, Kramnik being the hardest player to beat (just ask Kasparov:-)), however it will be great for chess if Maxim makes it!

                    As the World Cup played out, the last Grand Prix tournament becomes critical. It will also be interesting to see who will be picked by FIDE, and here Caruana has best chances - highest rating, good play in Grad Prix and World Cup, superior results in Super tournaments. We shall see.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                      Originally posted by Nigel Hanrahan View Post
                      Personal attacks and the kind of misogynist remarks you included aren't acceptable on ChessTalk, Paul. I've quoted the relevant section of the guidelines. If you can't contribute to the discussion here without violating them, then you should find another forum to air your views.
                      LOL what did he say?
                      Shameless self-promotion on display here
                      http://www.youtube.com/user/Barkyducky?feature=mhee

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                        Originally posted by Nigel Hanrahan View Post
                        Personal attacks and the kind of misogynist remarks you included aren't acceptable on ChessTalk, Paul. I've quoted the relevant section of the guidelines. If you can't contribute to the discussion here without violating them, then you should find another forum to air your views.
                        Only someone who cannot properly read and interpret English would label my remarks as indicative of misogyny.

                        I will respond to this shortly, after I consult legal counsel in respect to Mr. Hanrahan's libel (not the above quote, but the reason he gave for censoring my post).

                        But if that should lead where I think it will lead, I may decide as I have done on other occasions to go in a different direction.
                        Only the rushing is heard...
                        Onward flies the bird.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                          Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                          Only someone who cannot properly read and interpret English would label my remarks as indicative of misogyny.

                          I will respond to this shortly, after I consult legal counsel in respect to Mr. Hanrahan's libel (not the above quote, but the reason he gave for censoring my post).

                          But if that should lead where I think it will lead, I may decide as I have done on other occasions to go in a different direction.
                          You (and Nigel) need to switch to de-caf.
                          ...Mike Pence: the Lord of the fly.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                            Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                            Only someone who cannot properly read and interpret English would label my remarks as indicative of misogyny.

                            I will respond to this shortly, after I consult legal counsel in respect to Mr. Hanrahan's libel (not the above quote, but the reason he gave for censoring my post).

                            But if that should lead where I think it will lead, I may decide as I have done on other occasions to go in a different direction.
                            Paul. Your post was the most offensive thing I've seen on a bulletin board in a long time (granted this is the only one I read). I wrote to Larry as soon as I saw it.

                            That's my opinion, and I assume Larry agreed (or maybe Nigel acted at the same time).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                              Originally posted by Kerry Liles View Post
                              You (and Nigel) need to switch to de-caf.
                              lol. Maybe so. Anyway, I'm confident in defending my decision. It's one thing to engage in personal attacks; frankly, such things are par for the course when you're an online moderator. And I have a thick hide. I don't take it personally.

                              However, comparing women to pigs isn't acceptable. There's far too much of this garbage among (male) chess players - just look at the angry remarks Nigel Short has evoked with his unprofessional comments - and I'm more than willing to make an intervention in such cases.

                              Anyway, carry on.
                              Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Tromsø World Cup, Rounds 5 to 7

                                Originally posted by Nigel Hanrahan View Post
                                lol. Maybe so. Anyway, I'm confident in defending my decision. It's one thing to engage in personal attacks; frankly, such things are par for the course when you're an online moderator. And I have a thick hide. I don't take it personally.

                                However, comparing women to pigs isn't acceptable. There's far too much of this garbage among (male) chess players - just look at the angry remarks Nigel Short has evoked with his unprofessional comments - and I'm more than willing to make an intervention in such cases.

                                Anyway, carry on.
                                Nigel. I would ask you to consider removing any replies that refer to this post of Paul's (including this one) . I'm not sure why you would even post what you just did !

                                Comment

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