Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

[Bindi Cheng]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Some people once thought it was safe to say the Titanic was unsinkable.

I think it is safe to say the Executive will never release details of this 'offer', including what would happen should Canada endorse KI (a done deal) BUT KI lose the election.

I think it is also safe to say Bindi Cheng should never be given a position of financial responsibility.

Paul, how is it that you have so much time to flame others but no time to answer any of my previous questions concerning your profound ability to churn out new fascinating chess related products and superhuman ability in posting on an internet forum? I'm starting to doubt that there is actually a Paul Bonham in the chess world and that the Paul Bonham who has posted here numerous times is just an automatic robot designed to instigate arguments and "mature discussions". Does Paul Bonham dream of electric sheep?

[Ken MacDonald]

Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

Originally posted by Paul Bonham:
"You really do believe the future adult membership will be grown from the kids playing chess right now."

Response from Vlad Drkulec:
"By definition, yes."


By definition? So then in Vlad's world, no adult who is interested in chess right now can ever become part of future CFC adult membership. Not by actual restriction, but because Vlad's CFC doesn't recognize that adult as part of a viable market.

This is just one of your problems. Not only do you cast aside valuable sponsors like they were nothing, but you cast aside all adults interested in chess (but not part of organized chess) as if THEY are nothing.

It's all about the kids because only from the kids can the CFC expect to find the next IM, the next GM, and what it's really all about is the top of the pyramid. The rest of the kids are expected to eventually become adult members in the middle or the base of the pyramid, i.e. a source of money flowing to the top of the pyramid. The problem is, most of the non-elite kids are too smart to stick around as adults. They find better things to do. Your membership may survive, but it will not grow beyond some very modest number that mostly accounts for population growth.




I am glad to see you are making some very wrong assumptions about the new federation I will be forming. It doesn't NEED a thriving chess scene in Canada, the same way as your Windsor kids don't need it: they just love the game. My point was that my federation will siphon away most if not all of your kids from standard chess.

This emphasis on kids that you as CFC President are going to make your legacy will become an epic fail, because those kids are going to reach an age where they realize they are just the base or middle of a very tall pyramid where all the money flows to the top, and with my offering things will be much different. Plus my offering has much more dynamic and exciting play. You'll just have to take my word on that for now. And so your legacy will become this: a CFC President who had an opportunity to grow the adult membership but instead led the CFC on a single-minded path to recruit children in the belief that a good percentage of those children would later become adult CFC members.

The rest of your above quote is equally wrong. I spend very little time here on ChessTalk. My agenda is being advanced, and you would or should know the difficulties that can arise in starting a new venture. But if you think I am doing nothing, well, just keep thinking that.

My only reason for even posting this is so that someday I can point to it and say you were warned how badly your strategy is going to fail.

You've heard about 'herd instinct', I'm sure. That's what the CFC has right now. You are all running towards an abyss, led by Vlad's sense of direction. There are many things the CFC and other federations including FIDE itself could be doing, and is not and will not be doing, to make adults at least in North America want to play organized chess. The lack of action on this will prove not fatal, because there will always be a niche of people who want to play standard chess. So you will survive the plunge. But niche is where you are now and an even smaller niche is where you are headed.

I don't usually read your posts because I don't want to spend the time. This time, I see you are discussing something with Vlad, so I read some of it.

If you can post in less than 1,000 words, can you answer these questions?

Are you suggesting you will start a new Chess Federation?

If so, where, International, Canada or USA?

If so, for your NEW GAME or normal chess?

Please simple short yes or no answers would be preferred.

Thanks!

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

Originally posted by Paul Bonham:
"You really do believe the future adult membership will be grown from the kids playing chess right now."

Response from Vlad Drkulec:
"By definition, yes."


By definition? So then in Vlad's world, no adult who is interested in chess right now can ever become part of future CFC adult membership. Not by actual restriction, but because Vlad's CFC doesn't recognize that adult as part of a viable market.

This is just one of your problems. Not only do you cast aside valuable sponsors like they were nothing, but you cast aside all adults interested in chess (but not part of organized chess) as if THEY are nothing.

It's all about the kids because only from the kids can the CFC expect to find the next IM, the next GM, and what it's really all about is the top of the pyramid. The rest of the kids are expected to eventually become adult members in the middle or the base of the pyramid, i.e. a source of money flowing to the top of the pyramid. The problem is, most of the non-elite kids are too smart to stick around as adults. They find better things to do. Your membership may survive, but it will not grow beyond some very modest number that mostly accounts for population growth.

Your product hopes to piggyback onto traditional chess. You need a thriving chess scene for your product to have even a hope of succeeding. The market for your product is a small subset of the general chess playing public. You seem to be more concerned with posting on chesstalk than you are with actually doing something which might actually advance your agenda.

I am glad to see you are making some very wrong assumptions about the new federation I will be forming. It doesn't NEED a thriving chess scene in Canada, the same way as your Windsor kids don't need it: they just love the game. My point was that my federation will siphon away most if not all of your kids from standard chess.

This emphasis on kids that you as CFC President are going to make your legacy will become an epic fail, because those kids are going to reach an age where they realize they are just the base or middle of a very tall pyramid where all the money flows to the top, and with my offering things will be much different. Plus my offering has much more dynamic and exciting play. You'll just have to take my word on that for now. And so your legacy will become this: a CFC President who had an opportunity to grow the adult membership but instead led the CFC on a single-minded path to recruit children in the belief that a good percentage of those children would later become adult CFC members.

The rest of your above quote is equally wrong. I spend very little time here on ChessTalk. My agenda is being advanced, and you would or should know the difficulties that can arise in starting a new venture. But if you think I am doing nothing, well, just keep thinking that.

My only reason for even posting this is so that someday I can point to it and say you were warned how badly your strategy is going to fail.

You've heard about 'herd instinct', I'm sure. That's what the CFC has right now. You are all running towards an abyss, led by Vlad's sense of direction. There are many things the CFC and other federations including FIDE itself could be doing, and is not and will not be doing, to make adults at least in North America want to play organized chess. The lack of action on this will prove not fatal, because there will always be a niche of people who want to play standard chess. So you will survive the plunge. But niche is where you are now and an even smaller niche is where you are headed.

[Vlad Drkulec]

To Garry and some of his supporters

Being a member of the Chess Federation of Canada executive and president in particular is tough enough without having to deal with situations such as this where it appears that certain special interests are trying to wear you out by making the job impossibly time consuming (to address their all out information war). Having the ability to plant articles in the national media and on websites full of lies and distortions certainly ups the ante. I have lost sleep and been exhausted at times along the way which has made me crankier. I have received a great deal of support from members, governors and the public. I have no doubt that this has opened many eyes on the suitability of Garry Kasparov to lead FIDE and I don't think that the opening of these eyes was favourable to Garry.

Certainly you have instilled fear in some who don't have the thick skin that I do and that was no doubt what you set out to do. I think that I have shown that I and the CFC are not afraid of you and will stand up to you no matter who you are or how many powerful friends you have. I will fade back into obscurity continuing to do the things that need to be done for the CFC to function. While I am sure you enjoyed putting the CFC and myself personally through these trials, when the polls close and you are defeated utterly and finally perhaps some moments of honest self reflection will ensue and you will realize that this is not the way to get what you want. You can attack the hedgehog but its spines will get you every time.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

There are provisions in the NFP act which deal with this. A discipline bylaw was written into the CFC bylaws in part based on the default law. The governors at the time wanted a discipline bylaw so there is now a bylaw which could probably be used to remove Sasha as a voting member simply based on his recent behaviour. Repeated violations of the confidentiality requirements would be grounds to remove him from the point of the NFP act and the CFC's bylaw. Of course, Sasha is not the only one guilty of such violations as there were instances before Sasha was granted access with Sasha making reference to confidential disclosures by Hal Bond on the governors forum and Sid Belzberg making use of revelations from an anonymous governor.

To put things in context the current bylaw is nowhere near as draconian as the defeated proposed code of ethics put forward previously which would allow the executive to initiate removal of governors for simply disagreeing with a decision of the governors. I prefer not to exercise the directors authority in this area if at all possible.

We could simply look at all deliberations of the voting members being in public. This would not be unprecedented and at the least it would provide the public with full context of any business discussed.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

As a voting member you don't have the right to damage the reputation of the CFC...

Is this provision actually written up in the CFC bylaws or handbook or whatever passes for official CFC policy?

I think there have been quite a few voting members violating this "policy" right here on ChessTalk. Lots of CFC bad-mouthing going on, and deservedly so.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

I think it's safe to say that #5 will not be an issue

Some people once thought it was safe to say the Titanic was unsinkable.

I think it is safe to say the Executive will never release details of this 'offer', including what would happen should Canada endorse KI (a done deal) BUT KI lose the election.

I think it is also safe to say Bindi Cheng should never be given a position of financial responsibility.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

This may be the very last time I am going to address you for some time. While attending CYCC and CO I plan to cleanse all thoughts of you out of my mind and I will not waste any time responding to you as I will concentrate on CFC business and helping the Windsor kids do their best at CYCC and then playing in the Canadian Open and playing in a higher section than my recent play warrants.

If you want to be taken seriously you will take to heart the advice Erik gave you. Teach a kid or adult how to play chess and get involved. If you continue to violate confidentiality of the governors forum you will effectively destroy it as a method of conversation between the executive and voting members. The executive will stop using it and will become more secretive by necessity. I have a number of remedies including limiting your access to the governors forum which we can both agree will not be the best way to allow you to function as a voting member. As a voting member you don't have the right to damage the reputation of the CFC and I know what you will say but the voting members have had their say and the overwhelming positive responses from CFC members and FQE members suggests that your interpretation of reality is somewhat suspect. Nobody but you and Sid and maybe Garry want to continue to discuss this and Garry will be out of the loop within a month. He will face reality and move on. Judging from how he responded to Hal Bond thwarting him with respect to the Canadian Candidates match I have probably earned an enemy for life in GK which is a pity as I admire him as a player and writer. I am a nobody. The king should not spend so much time thinking about and dealing with an annoying pawn such as myself.

It is a bitter pill for me to swallow just as well.

Unfortunately it is one of the cases when democracy has miserably failed.

Democracy has worked fine. Your approach has failed. It was an epic fail.

Two highly motivated people

Who work tirelessly as volunteers for the CFC.

were able to succeed in spite of the fact,

that Sasha wanted a different outcome.

The fact remains that Five Executives, being motivated/induced or whatever else by the President and FIDE rep, have delivered endorsement of KI (two of them have abstained).

I was persuaded by the executive discussion and my later investigations that Kirsan was the better candidate.

I agree that this is the most disastrous decision of CFC ever.

I highly doubt that.

Only after the endorsement was publicly announced I've decided to contest the Presidency of CFC - just to provide an alternative. I'm not upset by the election's results.

Now I'm studying very carefully what's actually happened. Until then I can't really comment on what will be my next move.

Instead of dwelling on your past defeats I would suggest that you do the job that you were elected to do which is to work towards the best interests of chess in Canada and work on your street cred which is currently lacking.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Vlad, considering the AGM is now online rather than face to face at the Canadian Open, is there any way to change it to Sept. or Oct.?

I don't know about making it quite that late. It might fit in August better than July particularly with some of the requirements on the financial statements which weren't ready until the day before the meeting. I think we should really consider shortening it as well. This would have gone on for another week if we had held to the original idea. Five weeks a year of online meetings plus special meetings. Who comes up with these ideas?

July and August are prime chess months with the kids events, Olympiads, Canadian Open, Quebec events and so forth. Big chess months.

we snuck the meeting in just before CYCC.

The message boards are filled with election stuff which is a distraction from the game. I'd rather be reading about chess.

Give the chess players and spectators a break! Do the elections in the off season.

We could but then everyone would be complaining that I am a Machiavellian dictator. Oh wait. They already are. Well at least one or two of the Kasparov supporters are.

[Erik Malmsten]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

It is a bitter pill for me to swallow just as well.

Unfortunately it is one of the cases when democracy has miserably failed. Two highly motivated people were able to succeed in spite of the fact, that the large majority of people here have supported GK (remember President's poll here: 1 for KI, almost 30 for GK); and on the other poll, the Governors' poll, 66,67% of votes were against endorsement of KI. Well, both of these polls, even Governors, were deemed non binding. So the public opinion was ignored, the wishes of the Governors were neglected. The fact remains that Five Executives, being motivated/induced or whatever else by the President and FIDE rep, have delivered endorsement of KI (two of them have abstained).

I agree that this is the most disastrous decision of CFC ever.

Only after the endorsement was publicly announced I've decided to contest the Presidency of CFC - just to provide an alternative. I'm not upset by the election's results.

Now I'm studying very carefully what's actually happened. Until then I can't really comment on what will be my next move.

The MOST??? Really? So everything done by the CFC in the past 70 years was great? Not sending a women's team to the Olympiads? The battles with Chess Canada, FQE, and CMA? The selling of the CFC house and office? The lack of CFC presence in all schools, TV and the press? The lack of a GM development program? The only small amount of government and corporate funding (mainly Alberta/Quebec)? The declining adult membership over the past 12 years? (Stuff way before Vlad and his confrontational attitude was involved).

Whoever Canada votes for at every FIDE election in history has had only a small affect on chess in Canada. If you want to help chess you have to become a successful local organizer like Vlad has in Windsor. When we see how great your organizing results are, then you'll be in fine shape to become President. Focussing on investigations into past executive decisions is time and energy wasting, not a way forward.

[Gary Ruben]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Vlad, considering the AGM is now online rather than face to face at the Canadian Open, is there any way to change it to Sept. or Oct.?

July and August are prime chess months with the kids events, Olympiads, Canadian Open, Quebec events and so forth. Big chess months.

The message boards are filled with election stuff which is a distraction from the game. I'd rather be reading about chess.

Give the chess players and spectators a break! Do the elections in the off season.

[Bindi Cheng]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

5.Who will be responsible for the $$$ if KI will lose the election? KI personally?

Sasha Starr.

I think it's safe to say that #5 will not be an issue

[Sasha Starr]

Re: Benefits to Canada: FIDE Presidential Election

Hi Sasha:

I was a governor then. Think that was a face to face AGM meeting in Edmonton? My memory is bad.

Anyway, there will be AGM Minutes in the archive - likely accessible through the CFC Website? But don't know whether they will answer your question.

I myself, I'm afraid, have no recollection about the FIDE Presidency issue, except that there was almost unanimity to vote for Karpov.

Hope I haven't got the facts too badly mixed.

Bob A

Thank you, Bob. Lets assume that there were no offers to CFC in 2010 and CFC gained nothing by voting for Karpov.

1.How, at what point, CFC (Executives, Governors, or both) has made up its mind to vote not on the merit of quality of individual contender (there is no comparison, and polls and popular opinion clearly show that), but instead of on whatever offer is higher?

2.Lets assume that monetary values of the offers were similar. But how could you compare the quality and credibility of the offers made by honorable people and organizations on the GK's side and FIDE's offer (it is well known fact that FIDE has made different offers in the past and did not deliver anything)?

3.By publicly endorsing KI CFC has accepted FIDE's unconditional offer, WIN OR LOSE - whatever the offer is: FIDE or KI or whatever, am I right?

4.If yes, when FIDE will transfer the first installment of the $$$ promised?

5.Who will be responsible for the $$$ if KI will lose the election? KI personally?

Sasha Starr.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

"Later the offer changed"

Yes, the point being that it was very clear that the offer had no strings attached by the time it was submitted to the governors for a straw Poll. So your point is irrelevant and appears to be a lame excuse.

That was a point of discussion among the governors so yes you are right on that.

[Sid Belzberg]

Re: Winding down the CFC and FIDE elections

"Later the offer changed"

Yes, the point being that it was very clear that the offer had no strings attached by the time it was submitted to the governors for a straw Poll. So your point is irrelevant and appears to be a lame excuse.