New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

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  • New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

    I am writing from Auckland, NZ. Your forum looks great so I thought I would get your perspective on an issue we have been experiencing on the other side of the world. I hope you don't mind the intrusion. As many of you will be aware, FIDE introduced new rules effective from 1 July 2014. One of the changes was the following rule for Rapidplay events:

    An illegal move is completed once the player has pressed his clock. If the arbiter observes this he shall declare the game lost by the player, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the arbiter does not intervene, the opponent is entitled to claim a win, provided the opponent has not made his next move. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves. If the opponent does not claim and the arbiter does not intervene, the illegal move shall stand and the game shall continue. Once the opponent has made his next move, an illegal move cannot be corrected unless this is agreed by the players without intervention of the arbiter.

    FIDE also states that:
    It is recommended that competitive games not rated by FIDE be played according to the FIDE Laws of Chess.

    Some arbiters in NZ are adopting and enforcing the new FIDE rules verbatim including communicating the specific rule above very clearly at the start of tournaments. Junior players are claiming wins when their opponents make illegal moves. The occurrences are happening mostly for students aged from 5 - 10 years old. Typically this happens when a player knocks their piece over by accident as they are making their move, and then presses their clock. Also, it happens when a player doesn't notice they are in check, makes a move, presses their clock and their opponent claims a win as they haven't moved out of check.

    What is worse, is experienced kids are taking advantage of this by deliberately not announcing check (of course the etiquette is not to but juniors often do anyway) and various other unsporting type things to increase the likelihood of their opponent falling for the rule. Junior Chess here is becoming more about winning through a technicality then winning by playing better than your opponent!

    The main causes of the illegal moves are not in any way due to the offending player attempting to cheat or take advantage, but rather that they have not developed their motor skills, their chess vision or in many cases they simply haven't played in a chess tournament before and don't have much experience. It seems the new rule does its best to penalise beginners who are doing their best to hold their position together let alone cope with the challenges this rule introduces.

    The upshot is kids learning Chess and playing in their first tournaments are having very negative experiences instead of positive, fun and encouraging experiences. I personally want as many of our younger generation to enjoy Chess as possible - this rule doesn't seem to have that goal in mind.

    It seems to me that FIDE has not given sufficient consideration to younger players learning the game. I understand one set of rules for all is ideal but I feel there needs to be allowances particularly for younger players.

    As far as I can tell, FIDE recommends that non-FIDE events use the new rules. But as I understand it the arbiter can change this specific rule and any others for that matter and introduce whatever penalties he/she sees fit.

    I would like to get your feedback on this. Have others experienced this type of behaviour? How have you attempted to work around it? Is this a rule you enforce on younger less experienced players? What has been your impressions when implementing the rule?

    I look forward to your feedback and input.

    Paul - Chess Power NZ
    Paul Macdonald

  • #2
    Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

    Hello Paul,

    Welcome to ChessTalk!

    I believe that you raise an important issue and mostly agree with your observations.

    Originally posted by grandmastermac View Post
    The occurrences are happening mostly for students aged from 5 - 10 years old. Typically this happens when a player knocks their piece over by accident as they are making their move, and then presses their clock. Also, it happens when a player doesn't notice they are in check, makes a move, presses their clock and their opponent claims a win as they haven't moved out of check.

    [...]

    The main causes of the illegal moves are not in any way due to the offending player attempting to cheat or take advantage, but rather that they have not developed their motor skills, their chess vision or in many cases they simply haven't played in a chess tournament before and don't have much experience. It seems the new rule does its best to penalise beginners who are doing their best to hold their position together let alone cope with the challenges this rule introduces.
    This has been our experience, too, for the age group you describe. No malice, just lack of control, aggravated by stress.

    The Chess'n Math Association is Canada's National Scholastic Chess Organization and the sponsor of this forum.
    http://www.chess-math.org/

    Elementary-school students in Canada typically get introduced to organized chess via CMA classes, chess camps and week-end tournaments. Our tournaments are structured so as to bring together youngsters of comparable skill level, however lacking, and provide them with fun safe experience that would motivate them to continue with chess. The CMA has its own scholastic rating system and our events are not FIDE-rated, although we try to follow the Laws of Chess as closely as possible.

    Thus, when new rules regarding illegal moves appeared this summer, they were a topic of considerable discussion. For now, the CMA decided to err on the side of caution. We keep in force our old rules: if an opponent claims that an illegal move was made and alerts the arbiter, the arbiter issues a warning, or, in a more skilled group where clock is used, adds 2 minutes to the person who claimed the violation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

      Hello down-under-Paul!! he he he

      Your problem is NOT fide.

      Canadian Chess Federation does NOT follow ALL fide rules. But we say we do.
      We only follow them when is necessary for international competition requirements . Always with the benefit of the Canadian player in mind.

      Your problem is (often our problem also) those who look at a list of rules and are so mesmerised that they do not see the bigger picture.


      Best regard

      Mario Moran-Venegas

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

        Originally posted by grandmastermac View Post
        ...... Typically this happens when a player knocks their piece over by accident as they are making their move, and then presses their clock....

        Paul - Chess Power NZ
        Knocking over a piece by accident is not an illegal move. So, the real problem is your arbiters are not properly trained.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

          Originally posted by Roger Patterson View Post
          Knocking over a piece by accident is not an illegal move. So, the real problem is your arbiters are not properly trained.
          Hi Roger,

          So are you saying if a player accidentally knocks over a piece and then presses his/her clock and thereby an illegal position arises, their opponent cannot then claim a win? Can you pretty please point me to a section in the FIDE rules that states "Knocking over a piece by accident is not an illegal move". This would make things a great deal better for a start and stop the stupidity.

          Paul.
          Paul Macdonald

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

            Hi Vadim. Yes, this is what we do for Chess Power events too. It just results in a great chance of kids continuing to play and not having a horrible first-time tournament experience.

            Out of interest have you applied the new rules to any age group? In my mind it would make sense to apply it to Year 9-13 students but perhaps not Year 1-6 students. Not sure where I stand for Year 7-8 students. Hmmm.
            Paul Macdonald

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

              Hi Mario, you have hit the nail on the head. I couldn't agree more! Thank you.
              Paul Macdonald

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

                While it doesn't seem to be clearly stated in the rules for rapid events, one could assume that the definition of move involves a player deliberately touching a piece, as it is the case for regular games (http://www.fide.com/component/handbo...4&view=article).
                I can't imagine a qualified arbiter would really give a win for a piece accidentally knocked over.

                In Quebec, illegal moves in rapid games are usually dealt with the same way as in regular games, no matter what FIDE says (and this is true for both kids tournaments and masters tournaments).
                After the action taken under Article 7.4.a, for the first two illegal moves by a player the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent in each instance; for a third illegal move by the same player, the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

                  Originally posted by grandmastermac View Post
                  Hi Roger,

                  So are you saying if a player accidentally knocks over a piece and then presses his/her clock and thereby an illegal position arises, their opponent cannot then claim a win? Can you pretty please point me to a section in the FIDE rules that states "Knocking over a piece by accident is not an illegal move". This would make things a great deal better for a start and stop the stupidity.

                  Paul.
                  As noted by Felix, section 4 of the FIDE handbook takes great care to define a "move" as "deliberately touching". Knocking a piece over by accident is not "deliberately touching", hence it is not a move.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ps

                    Originally posted by grandmastermac View Post
                    Hi Roger,

                    So are you saying if a player accidentally knocks over a piece and then presses his/her clock and thereby an illegal position arises, their opponent cannot then claim a win? Can you pretty please point me to a section in the FIDE rules that states "Knocking over a piece by accident is not an illegal move". This would make things a great deal better for a start and stop the stupidity.

                    Paul.
                    Besides section 4 (dealing with what is a move) you can also rely on section 7 dealing with irregularities. In particular:

                    7.4

                    If a player displaces one or more pieces, he shall re-establish the correct position in his own time. If necessary, either the player or his opponent shall stop the chessclock and ask for the arbiter’s assistance. The arbiter may penalise the player who displaced the pieces.


                    Clearly, this rule says what happens when pieces are accidentally knocked over [and what happens is not a declared loss] .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re : ps

                      In the Toronto Saturday Rapid (15 minutes per player S.D.)- a tournament that has been going since 1963 (51 years!) - we play under rules that are generally accepted by all our participants.

                      If a player makes an illegal move and punches the clock, the opponent has one minute added to his time. In extreme time scrambles, this is often enough for the perpetrator of the illegality to resign before the clock is reset.

                      In cases where a player claims a time forfeit win, the game is declared drawn even with sufficient mating material such as
                      K & RP vs K where the opposing king blocks the RP or the player with the pawn cannot move his king from in front of his own pawn. The game also cannot be won on time with K&B vs K&B of opposite colors even though the FIDE rules allow a win since a player could stupidly march his king into a corner and block an adjoining square with his own bishop thus allowing the opponent to checkmate. This is a stupid rule which leads us to suspect all FIDE rules - and so we have our own rules.
                      Last edited by Vlad Dobrich; Sunday, 28th September, 2014, 08:21 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Re : ps

                        Thank you Felix, Roger and Vlad for all of your valued feedback. Everything you have said makes a lot of sense to me. I just wish it made sense to others too ;-)
                        Paul Macdonald

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New FIDE rules for Junior Rapid events

                          Hi Paul,

                          Thank you for bringing a constructive thread to our site. One request. That you register on this site with your real name. Tis the rules of this site :) We welcome more interesting input from you in the future...all under your real name of course!

                          Thanks,

                          Larry

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