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Re: Proportional Representation in Canada
Hi Nigel
On your point #1, I have to agree with Alvah. The current electoral system is not broken. Majority governments can get things done, which is especially important in times of crisis. Legislative gridlock as often occurs in the US is in contrast not such a problem in Canada, if one views it as such, even when a party has a minority government (e.g. Liberal + NDP). To elaborate on an earlier point I made, in Isreal, for example, parties seldom get a majority, and governing parties have had to make deals with extremist fringe parties holding only a handful of seats in order to maintain power.
Italy has a similar problem with having a 'pizza parliament' of multiple parties, and (expensive) elections are frequent, last I heard. I noticed Australia was one example you used in your second last post, yet now you are not so pleased with its mandatory voting aspect (and would voting participation there really be up otherwise?). You, or anyone else, such as Crowder, haven't yet seemed to show a large number of nations with everything specifically desired in the way of a shining electoral system in place and at the same time also proven to work well in terms of how desirable each nation listed is as far as being lived in.
The first time I noticed the decline in values of Canadian politicians when I was growing up was with P. Trudeau's governments. Until then, there was ministerial responsibility, which meant that when there was even a whiff of scandal, a cabinet minister would ethically step down until he was cleared. Trudeau insisted on keeping them at their posts through any scandal. As far as taking care of corrupt politicians goes, I have to admire Quebec voters. At least they are not the sort of sheep that many Ontario voters seem to be. In Quebec, a corrupt provincial Liberal government was punished not so long ago, in contrast to Ontario. I blame uninformed or apathetic voters for keeping bad governments in power.
Also, in Alberta, two parties that I know of (Reform, and much later Wildrose) were formed because of discontent. Voters and aspiring candidates there also didn't just sit on their @$$, and just complain about the electoral system. For a while these new parties seemed to stick to their principles and integrity, at least until their shelf life seemed to pass. In any event, all politicians or parties who are elected for too long are at risk of becoming corrupted.
As I have explained above, there are remedies available to voters besides the changing of the electoral system. As far as your argument about the NDP in Manitoba goes, I don't see how it contradicts me regarding my asserting that the NDP, for example, is likely being self-serving as far as what electoral system they'd prefer (indeed, you seem to contradict yourself, as you point out that the NDP in Manitoba, when in power there, is not interested in changing whatever system currently exists there - it just happens to be FPTP there).
On your point #2, afaik one can still 'decline' their ballot, at least in Ontario. There was a record number of voters who bothered to last time, though less than I might wish for:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06...ts-since-1975/
On your point #3, I've addressed voter turnout already. Canada is unique, for example, if only because there are two founding nations that have at least somewhat different civil justice systems and customs, and have different political ways of doing things. Otherwise, I can observe that your worldview and mine are fundamentally different. So-called global warming is nothing but a wrong belief based on mistakes or the result of a conspiracy, as far as I'm concerned.
Any climate change, if it exists, is not man-made I estimate, but may be rather due to solar activity or perhaps even due to a magnetic polar shift that's overdue (and could be at least be partly responsible for any dieoff of bees). The world is more likely cooling than warming. One thing that has hardly been convincingly explained away by global warmers is how Vikings were farming in Greenland some thousand years ago or so.
Today's global problems are largely the result of the decline of morality, afaik. Everything from super-corrupt bankers and corporations (and politicians) to runaway drug use, abortion and legalized euthanasia in some nations, for example. Did you know that in Holland, seniors have had their lives ended without their consent, at times? - you'd think Europe would have learned from its experience with Nazism. Here's a wikipedia link on euthanasia in Holland that offers at least some info the topic, but it may be obsolete already (I have heard that over there recently economics have actually been factored into some such life and death decisions):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthana...he_Netherlands
Even if one didn't personally believe in God, Judao-Christian values had their purpose, and were the basis for Canada's way of life in the past, at least. In the western world these days, many people feel entitled, are narcissistic and won't hesistate to cheat to get ahead in life. At least part of this can be blamed on the multi-pronged assault on the basic family unit, e.g. high divorce rates producing maladjusted children in many cases as a result.
Originally posted by Nigel Hanrahan
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On your point #1, I have to agree with Alvah. The current electoral system is not broken. Majority governments can get things done, which is especially important in times of crisis. Legislative gridlock as often occurs in the US is in contrast not such a problem in Canada, if one views it as such, even when a party has a minority government (e.g. Liberal + NDP). To elaborate on an earlier point I made, in Isreal, for example, parties seldom get a majority, and governing parties have had to make deals with extremist fringe parties holding only a handful of seats in order to maintain power.
Italy has a similar problem with having a 'pizza parliament' of multiple parties, and (expensive) elections are frequent, last I heard. I noticed Australia was one example you used in your second last post, yet now you are not so pleased with its mandatory voting aspect (and would voting participation there really be up otherwise?). You, or anyone else, such as Crowder, haven't yet seemed to show a large number of nations with everything specifically desired in the way of a shining electoral system in place and at the same time also proven to work well in terms of how desirable each nation listed is as far as being lived in.
The first time I noticed the decline in values of Canadian politicians when I was growing up was with P. Trudeau's governments. Until then, there was ministerial responsibility, which meant that when there was even a whiff of scandal, a cabinet minister would ethically step down until he was cleared. Trudeau insisted on keeping them at their posts through any scandal. As far as taking care of corrupt politicians goes, I have to admire Quebec voters. At least they are not the sort of sheep that many Ontario voters seem to be. In Quebec, a corrupt provincial Liberal government was punished not so long ago, in contrast to Ontario. I blame uninformed or apathetic voters for keeping bad governments in power.
Also, in Alberta, two parties that I know of (Reform, and much later Wildrose) were formed because of discontent. Voters and aspiring candidates there also didn't just sit on their @$$, and just complain about the electoral system. For a while these new parties seemed to stick to their principles and integrity, at least until their shelf life seemed to pass. In any event, all politicians or parties who are elected for too long are at risk of becoming corrupted.
As I have explained above, there are remedies available to voters besides the changing of the electoral system. As far as your argument about the NDP in Manitoba goes, I don't see how it contradicts me regarding my asserting that the NDP, for example, is likely being self-serving as far as what electoral system they'd prefer (indeed, you seem to contradict yourself, as you point out that the NDP in Manitoba, when in power there, is not interested in changing whatever system currently exists there - it just happens to be FPTP there).
On your point #2, afaik one can still 'decline' their ballot, at least in Ontario. There was a record number of voters who bothered to last time, though less than I might wish for:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06...ts-since-1975/
On your point #3, I've addressed voter turnout already. Canada is unique, for example, if only because there are two founding nations that have at least somewhat different civil justice systems and customs, and have different political ways of doing things. Otherwise, I can observe that your worldview and mine are fundamentally different. So-called global warming is nothing but a wrong belief based on mistakes or the result of a conspiracy, as far as I'm concerned.
Any climate change, if it exists, is not man-made I estimate, but may be rather due to solar activity or perhaps even due to a magnetic polar shift that's overdue (and could be at least be partly responsible for any dieoff of bees). The world is more likely cooling than warming. One thing that has hardly been convincingly explained away by global warmers is how Vikings were farming in Greenland some thousand years ago or so.
Today's global problems are largely the result of the decline of morality, afaik. Everything from super-corrupt bankers and corporations (and politicians) to runaway drug use, abortion and legalized euthanasia in some nations, for example. Did you know that in Holland, seniors have had their lives ended without their consent, at times? - you'd think Europe would have learned from its experience with Nazism. Here's a wikipedia link on euthanasia in Holland that offers at least some info the topic, but it may be obsolete already (I have heard that over there recently economics have actually been factored into some such life and death decisions):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthana...he_Netherlands
Even if one didn't personally believe in God, Judao-Christian values had their purpose, and were the basis for Canada's way of life in the past, at least. In the western world these days, many people feel entitled, are narcissistic and won't hesistate to cheat to get ahead in life. At least part of this can be blamed on the multi-pronged assault on the basic family unit, e.g. high divorce rates producing maladjusted children in many cases as a result.
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