CYCC Vancouver bid.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

Suganthin, Latha, Dorota, Mridushyam, Ed Mandell, John Coleman (officially retired but always around and not involved at all no siree, but a very constant steadying influence) and so many others were a part of the 2015 bid with huge efforts or stealth efforts but the net effect was that every penny spent was made to scream under the effort and benefit it was expected to provide. Alan Kaufman gave cash and support as well as he has done for this years bids. I can't mention everyone involved because some of them were just friends of the parents or friends of the kids. I have never seen such a mobilization.

With all this volunteerism and no profit for the individuals involved, explain in detail where the conflict is. I'm waiting.

I probably won't be posting much tomorrow until all the family stuff is done.

Merry Christmas everyone.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

These are two clear examples I am aware of violations of the NFP conflict of Interest Guidelines:

1)As I understand it Vlad's livelihood is giving chess lessons in Windsor Ontario. Even though Vlad may have had good intentions in organizing the CYCC and other tournaments in Windsor once alternatives appeared normally Vlad would have to recuse himself entirely from the bid selecting process.

My livelihood is doing computer work. I teach chess at one quarter to one half of my regular rate. I enjoy it more. I am not conflicted out just because I teach chess in Windsor. That is just silly.

Strictly speaking I did not even have to put these bids to the voting members because the period for bids had passed with the AGM. In any case, I thought that it was more advisable to put it to a vote of the voting members so that there could be a consensus and we could go forward together. Losing both bids would have probably been better for me both financially and physically and even in the effort that I would be able to put forward as a chess coach because I wouldn't have all the distractions that I am going to have. Last year, as CFC president at the CYCC I had almost no time for the kids that I coach aside from offering general encouragement.

Not doing so would be contrary to the NFP conflict of Interest guidelines.

Show me these guidelines. I have the act in front of me and I don't see them. Any reasonable person could see that I have acted in the best interest of the CFC by organizing and putting forward these bids. The Windsor people and members of the CFC have suggested that I should receive some renumeration for these events but I knew that the small people would worm their way out of the woodwork and make these insinuations. Did you miss the part where it says that even if there is a conflict and if I was acting in the best interest of the NFP corporation then I am home clear. Actually there are a number of people who voted on the opposite side who might have some problems with a conflict of interest but hey no need to get nit picky when you won. I have to work with these people going forward.

2)Hal Bond should have definitely recused himself from the executive group that was dealing with the FIDE election as he was receiving money from FIDE for arbitration work and was therefore conflicted out.

NFPs are now structured very much like corporations with similar conflict of interest guidelines.

Unlike myself, it appears that you haven't read the NFP act.

Hal Bond didn't receive money from FIDE as I understand it. He received money from various third party organizers for work that he did for them.

The NFP act and the associated regulations clearly say that this is permitted and is not considered a conflict. In fact, you can receive payment for work done for the CFC as long as the work objectively is of value relative to the renumeration received.

[Paul Bonham]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

As far as I am concerned the Windsor bid and my involvement in it was........

Vlad, if everything you've written is true, it sounds like a very devoted and selfless effort on everyone's part. It's too bad that most, if not all, of that effort goes unpaid due to the state of organized chess in Canada.

But it must be said that YOU KNEW this would continue to be the state of organized chess in Canada back when you endorsed Kirsan for FIDE President. Of course, everyone knew that Kirsan was a lock to win, so endorsing Kasparov would have made no practical difference. But... all those volunteers who are slaving for no pay could at least look to you and think, well, at least he TRIED to change things. Instead, they look to you and think that you basically acted for the status quo. Or who knows, maybe they don't think at all, but the ones with eyes to see and ears to hear and brains to think know what you stood for back then, and it wasn't them.

And so they go on volunteering and knowing you did nothing to at least SYMBOLICALLY try and change things. Kirsan was and remains the status quo.

As to the conflict of interest thing, let's wax hypothetical for a moment to make a point:

What if in response to what you've just written, someone from the Quebec organizing committee wrote an equally long post, describing all the volunteer efforts that went on for their bid? And perhaps some innovative ideas their people came up with, and some fundraising efforts their people put together, and some abuse their people took? And then let's say the Vancouver organizers did the same...and the Kingston people as well...

The point is, Vlad, the possible conflict of interest if it exists doesn't have to involve all these volunteers. You are describing the Windsor bid in terms that are intended to make us all go "Ohhhh, these valiant volunteers in Windsor, how pure and innocent as the driven snow they all are!" And they may well be.... but this is totally ignoring that Quebec and Kingston and Vancouver may have put in equally valiant, selfless efforts. You basically exalt the Windsor people, putting them up on a pedestal, totally ignoring that other people elsewhere may be doing just as much and suffering just as much.

And THAT is the conflict of interest, because you are the President of the CFC that is overseeing the bidding process, and throughout this thread you are showing us in no uncertain terms that you had Windsor pegged to win the bidding the whole way. It is quite obvious that you never considered Quebec, Kingston, or Vancouver bids in any meaningful way EXCEPT as alternatives if the Windsor bid fell through. To my mind, that is unethical behavior. Whether it's actually actionable according to the NFP act I cannot say, since I don't know the legalities of the act. But it is definitely unethical.

It is even MORE unethical when I read your confession about these arrangements with Caesars Windsor. It is quite apparent that this deal HAD to go through, that Windsor could UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES lose the bidding and jeopardize the Caesars Windsor deal. This to me is something that really should be actionable according to the NFP act -- if it isn't, then the act is truly flawed. You basically held a fake bidding process where Windsor was going to win no matter what. And you are admitting to it, and telling us in black and white that there was this Caesar's deal worth thousands of dollars and tournaments well into the future.

I certainly hope that someone in Quebec, or in Kingston, or in Vancouver decides that you are not going to get away with throwing them under the bus. If any of those people are reading this right now, and thinking "Hmmmm... yes!", I'd advise you to save Vlad's posts as evidence. It's truly a remarkable confession to unethical, if not illegal, behavior.

[Caleb Petersen]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

"The time for action is past, now is the time for senseless bickering!" Ashleigh Brilliant

I don't know why this thread is still going on. Mr. Drukelec explained why the Vancouver bid was not sucessful, and that could've been the end of it. But no, everyone has to throw in their two cents, some feel the need to bash people, and others the need to defend themselves and/or others who are being bashed. There will be the CYCC, the NAYCC, and the Canadian Open this year, and that's good news! I'm sure the Windsor team will do their best to make them sucessfull, and the best of luck to them.

Really I'm beginning to think that this is peoples motto for the CFC (definitely from chesstalk's perspective anyway) (for the majority of people, but I do realize not all).

"The great work must go on, as soon as we all find someone else to do it" Ashleigh Brilliant

What if instead of fighting to no constructive end on an online forum on Christmas of all times of the year we all go do something productive with our time, and save words for that which is helpful to the person we are speaking to in either contructive (don't leave that out!) critisim or building other people up?

[Ken MacDonald]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

"The time for action is past, now is the time for senseless bickering!" Ashleigh Brilliant

I don't know why this thread is still going on. Mr. Drukelec explained why the Vancouver bid was not successful, and that could've been the end of it. But no, everyone has to throw in their two cents, some feel the need to bash people, and others the need to defend themselves and/or others who are being bashed. There will be the CYCC, the NAYCC, and the Canadian Open this year, and that's good news! I'm sure the Windsor team will do their best to make them successful, and the best of luck to them.

Really I'm beginning to think that this is peoples motto for the CFC (definitely from chesstalk's perspective anyway) (for the majority of people, but I do realize not all).

"The great work must go on, as soon as we all find someone else to do it" Ashleigh Brilliant

What if instead of fighting to no constructive end on an online forum on Christmas of all times of the year we all go do something productive with our time, and save words for that which is helpful to the person we are speaking to in either constructive (don't leave that out!) criticism or building other people up?

OMG, a Grown-Up! What are you doing here on CT??

[Wayne Komer]

Vancouver Bid

Vancouver Bid

December 25, 2015

Bravo, Ken! And a Merry Christmas!

[Keerti Nyayachavadi]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

"The time for action is past, now is the time for senseless bickering!" Ashleigh Brilliant

I don't know why this thread is still going on. Mr. Drukelec explained why the Vancouver bid was not sucessful, and that could've been the end of it. But no, everyone has to throw in their two cents, some feel the need to bash people, and others the need to defend themselves and/or others who are being bashed. There will be the CYCC, the NAYCC, and the Canadian Open this year, and that's good news! I'm sure the Windsor team will do their best to make them sucessfull, and the best of luck to them.

Really I'm beginning to think that this is peoples motto for the CFC (definitely from chesstalk's perspective anyway) (for the majority of people, but I do realize not all).

"The great work must go on, as soon as we all find someone else to do it" Ashleigh Brilliant

What if instead of fighting to no constructive end on an online forum on Christmas of all times of the year we all go do something productive with our time, and save words for that which is helpful to the person we are speaking to in either contructive (don't leave that out!) critisim or building other people up?

In the spirit of Christmas why not Vlad resign as CFC president?

The ball is in the court of everyone who cares for Canadian chess.

Merry Christmas to all

[Keerti Nyayachavadi]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

Double Post Sorry
Merry Christmas to all

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

Vlad, if everything you've written is true, it sounds like a very devoted and selfless effort on everyone's part. It's too bad that most, if not all, of that effort goes unpaid due to the state of organized chess in Canada.

But it must be said that YOU KNEW this would continue to be the state of organized chess in Canada back when you endorsed Kirsan for FIDE President. Of course, everyone knew that Kirsan was a lock to win, so endorsing Kasparov would have made no practical difference.

Your contention seems to be that we should have picked the known worse choice from the point of view of FIDE and the CFC. Why would we reward Kasparov and his team for their appalling behaviour towards the CFC?

But... all those volunteers who are slaving for no pay could at least look to you and think, well, at least he TRIED to change things.

Not all change is good change.

Instead, they look to you and think that you basically acted for the status quo. Or who knows, maybe they don't think at all, but the ones with eyes to see and ears to hear and brains to think know what you stood for back then, and it wasn't them.

And so they go on volunteering and knowing you did nothing to at least SYMBOLICALLY try and change things. Kirsan was and remains the status quo.

This reminds me of some of the chess positions which my chess trainer/coach Viktor Gavrikov presents me with lately where you have a position that looks like something you are familiar with and the mating attack on the king looks like it combines motifs from the standard patterns of attacking a fortified king but there are nuances that make this different. To start with the obvious move (Kasparov) that looks like it should start a successful mating attack and seems natural but there is a hidden flaw in the position which means that the move does not work. To solve these puzzles you can't rely on what you know and what you have seen before but you have to analyze the position and truly understand the situation and what is going on before proceeding to pick your move. Sometimes the winning plan is deep and subtle and relies on a quiet move which is hard to find several moves in the future.

In our judgement, picking Kasparov would have been very bad for chess. It would have been bad for FIDE. It would have been bad for the CFC and chess in Canada. Talk to someone who was around when Kasparov was launching the PCA. The GMs ate crackers while Kasparov ate caviar in the back room. Everyone involved does not paint a very flattering picture of our illustrious potential leader.

The deal with Leong clinched the decision. Kasparov wasn't offering something new and different but the same old, same old with a more onerous person at the helm. Its like the scene in Orwell's Animal Farm where the other animals watch the pigs (who have commandeered the revolution) and the humans.

“Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm

A successful FIDE is necessary for the CFC to thrive. We also need their help, cooperation and good will on a regular basis. There is always some rule that is inconvenient or some player whose transfer of federation needs to be expedited in order to get it done before some event.

I am not against making grand futile gestures. I post on chesstalk so that should be obvious. If I am going to make a grand futile gesture it is going to be for someone that I believe in and not for someone who has shown disrespect to Canada at almost every turn and that would sign that deal with Leong. He is not the reformer he pretends to be but like the pigs in Orwell's fable just wants to replace the humans. Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss. - only worse and he has a penchant for caviar while the peasants starve. At least Kirsan threw a lot of his own money at chess.

FIDE would have been blown up within a few years under Kasparov and we would enter into a period of darkness unlike any we have experienced. He did offer a free lunch but the cost was way too high. In any case, there was never any danger of Kasparov winning, thankfully, despite what his rabid supporters claimed.

As to the conflict of interest thing, let's wax hypothetical for a moment to make a point:

What if in response to what you've just written, someone from the Quebec organizing committee wrote an equally long post, describing all the volunteer efforts that went on for their bid? And perhaps some innovative ideas their people came up with, and some fundraising efforts their people put together, and some abuse their people took? And then let's say the Vancouver organizers did the same...and the Kingston people as well...

So your contention is we shouldn't have gone for the best bid because you don't like me. That seems like an inadequate reason.

The point is, Vlad, the possible conflict of interest if it exists doesn't have to involve all these volunteers. You are describing the Windsor bid in terms that are intended to make us all go "Ohhhh, these valiant volunteers in Windsor, how pure and innocent as the driven snow they all are!"

Well, pretty much they are.

And they may well be.... but this is totally ignoring that Quebec and Kingston and Vancouver may have put in equally valiant, selfless efforts.

Well look at the date. December 25th. You really need a year to prepare for organizing such a tournament let alone three. There was no more time left for dawdling or there wouldn't be any dates left where the events might even be held. At a certain point, you have to say to everyone else that you had your chance, we're going to do it ourselves. That is what happened for the Windsor bids to even come into existence. In fact the other bids did not fall into place until the intention to bid for all three events in Windsor was announced.

You basically exalt the Windsor people, putting them up on a pedestal, totally ignoring that other people elsewhere may be doing just as much and suffering just as much.

And THAT is the conflict of interest, because you are the President of the CFC that is overseeing the bidding process, and throughout this thread you are showing us in no uncertain terms that you had Windsor pegged to win the bidding the whole way.

Yes, I did, but only because it was the best bid. A sizable majority of the voting members shared that assessment.

It is quite obvious that you never considered Quebec, Kingston, or Vancouver bids in any meaningful way EXCEPT as alternatives if the Windsor bid fell through. To my mind, that is unethical behavior.

That's why you don't get very much accomplished. You don't understand the duty of a director which is to always act in the best interest of the corporation consistent with the goals of the CFC. The Vancouver bid as written was so bad that it probably would have required us to undertake a major raid on the assets of the foundation in order to finance the shortfall rising out of it. This in a year where we have a major shortfall in our revenues thanks in part due to a reduction in the funds from the book contract and the CFC-FQE agreement. This is also a year where we have to fund an Olympiad team despite these lower resources. We aren't in a position to take an inferior bid.

Whether it's actually actionable according to the NFP act I cannot say,

I can. Its not.

since I don't know the legalities of the act.

I do know the legalities of the act.

But it is definitely unethical.

Frankly you're just being stupid with that statement.

It is even MORE unethical when I read your confession about these arrangements with Caesars Windsor.

No. It just would have meant that we would have had to start a little smaller and been delayed by a year or two or three. If the Vancouver bid had won I would have had a lot more time on my hands because I would have insisted that one of the people pushing that bid step up and preside over the CFC in that case. It also might have risked the well oiled machine in Windsor getting a bit rusty.

It is quite apparent that this deal HAD to go through, that Windsor could UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES lose the bidding and jeopardize the Caesars Windsor deal.

There would be a Caesars Windsor deal even if we lost all three of the bids. It just would have started out smaller and there wouldn't be any extra payment for the youth fund which by the way doesn't really help the Windsor organizers very much except in a very general way that it helps out kids across Canada.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

This to me is something that really should be actionable according to the NFP act -

It isn't.

I never figured you for a collectivist. Live and learn.

- if it isn't, then the act is truly flawed. You basically held a fake bidding process where Windsor was going to win no matter what.

No, there were no bids by the beginning of December. Windsor had a lot to lose if CYCC and NAYCC did not take place. I informed them that if they wanted to put on CYCC they would have to bid for the Canadian Open as well. There was no way we were not going to have a Canadian Open two years in a row.

And you are admitting to it, and telling us in black and white that there was this Caesar's deal worth thousands of dollars and tournaments well into the future.

The Caesars Windsor deal only materialized after we had a group meeting and decided to go for it and submit a bid for all three tournaments. The Caesars Windsor deal and the Tourism Windsor Essex Pelee Island took place because I got out in front of some decision makers and managed to convince them to go to bat for us with their higher ups.

I certainly hope that someone in Quebec, or in Kingston, or in Vancouver decides that you are not going to get away with throwing them under the bus.

I didn't throw anyone under the bus. If their bid had been better than the winning bid from Windsor, they would have won.

If any of those people are reading this right now, and thinking "Hmmmm... yes!", I'd advise you to save Vlad's posts as evidence. It's truly a remarkable confession to unethical, if not illegal, behavior.

There was no one from Kingston involved in the Kingston bid as far as I know. Too bad about the last bit you almost showed me a glimmer of a possibility that you could rise to the levels of the individual that I used to cross swords with but instead you had to come back down to your natural level down in the gutter. You really need to look up unethical in the dictionary. It would have been unethical, all things considered to back any other bid. Fortunately enough voting members in a record turnout agreed with me.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

Hmmm.... Caleb. Could I interest you in running for the CFC presidency?

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: Vlad doesn't love Kirsan - Steve Harvey

In the spirit of Christmas why not Vlad resign as CFC president?

The ball is in the court of everyone who cares for Canadian chess.

Merry Christmas to all

In the spirit of Christmas, why don't you arrange that hypothetical boat and 20 foot ladder that you spoke of at CYCC when we were outside the tournament hall doors.

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: CYCC Vancouver bid.

And (some) people wonder out loud why NOBODY is interested in serving on the CFC Executive. Vlad gets slammed if he upholds the rules and he gets slammed if he steps outside them - even in cases where the 'rule' is clearly being interpreted literally rather than with any common sense.

"I'm sure there are are those who would second the proposal to fire you..." - perhaps, but I will bet that NOT ONE of those people currently do a damn thing for Chess in Canada and NOT ONE will step up to the plate.

I missed this one.

Fortunately most of the people that want to fire me, don't get a vote precisely because they are not willing to do anything for chess. The executive is unpaid, with a few exceptions is not even reimbursed for expenses and can count on nothing but abuse whatever their position on any number of issues. Always there are many people asking for financial support but few looking at our financial position and understanding that we can't fund everything and everybody. It would be nice if we could but excess money can be as much of a curse as not enough. We are living within our means.

If you allow the Canadian Open to go unorganized then its your fault. If you organize the Canadian Open then you have a conflict of interest because you offer chess lessons for a nominal price. Last year the Canadian Open did not get organized because the Windsor team was not ready. I could not do it because my health was questionable and I had to deal with a family member undergoing radiation and hormone therapy for cancer. I had to drive that family member to his appointments at the hospital and there was no way that I could make any commitment beyond the one I made towards CYCC 2015. He is better now and as a result I can take on the commitment.

We also tried to get Quebec City to take the Canadian Open last summer with a subsidy from the CFC but the time was not right for them. At one point the CMA also thought about running the Canadian Open. We appreciate having the CMA and FQE as partners in Canadian chess.

[Ken MacDonald]

Re: CYCC Vancouver bid.

I missed this one.

Fortunately most of the people that want to fire me, don't get a vote precisely because they are not willing to do anything for chess. The executive is unpaid, with a few exceptions is not even reimbursed for expenses and can count on nothing but abuse whatever their position on any number of issues. Always there are many people asking for financial support but few looking at our financial position and understanding that we can't fund everything and everybody. It would be nice if we could but excess money can be as much of a curse as not enough. We are living within our means.

If you allow the Canadian Open to go unorganized then its your fault. If you organize the Canadian Open then you have a conflict of interest because you offer chess lessons for a nominal price. Last year the Canadian Open did not get organized because the Windsor team was not ready. I could not do it because my health was questionable and I had to deal with a family member undergoing radiation and hormone therapy for cancer. I had to drive that family member to his appointments at the hospital and there was no way that I could make any commitment beyond the one I made towards CYCC 2015. He is better now and as a result I can take on the commitment.

We also tried to get Quebec City to take the Canadian Open last summer with a subsidy from the CFC but the time was not right for them. At one point the CMA also thought about running the Canadian Open. We appreciate having the CMA and FQE as partners in Canadian chess.

You forgot those who think our fees are too high and that we don't offer enough services for their dollar! I admit I haven't seen that one in a little while though!

[Vlad Drkulec]

Re: CYCC Vancouver bid.

You forgot those who think our fees are too high and that we don't offer enough services for their dollar! I admit I haven't seen that one in a little while though!

The CFC's fees have not gone up in quite some time. We probably had an issue with the cost of CYCC with a lot of parents at one point but we addressed that by giving more in the area of junior chess. We paid some portion of the entry fees to WYCC for players who finished second and third at CYCC. In previous years we provided team shirts. When NAYCC was in New York we spent some money on shirts to give the Canadian players a team identity. This year Windsor did the shirts for us because our youth fund is a bit tapped after sending four teams to U16 Olympiad tournaments in less than a year in addition to WYCC expenditures. If parents get the sense that we are spending money foolishly (ie not on their kids) or hoarding money then I think you get more resistance.

We do a lot for the kids especially around WYCC and other tournaments like NAYCC and U16 Olympiad. We don't always do the best job of explaining how much we do because by the time it is done several months after we made the decisions, we have moved on to other issues and projects.

It does cost us money to run the CFC and membership and rating fees is what has to pay those expenses. I believe most people understand that.

We occasionally get some flack for the cost of tournaments. The cost of the tournament is only a very small portion of the cost of attending a tournament. Transportation and hotel costs are usually the bulk of the costs for the person who plays in a tournament out of town. On the organizers side halls are usually not cheap and even where they are there are usually many other expenses that the less expensive halls tack on to the final bill. I understand that in Quebec and perhaps in Alberta people are used to tournaments with high prizes, lots of GMs and low entry fees. Alberta can do it because of their arrangement that allows running casinos in order to raise funds for chess. Quebec gets a fair bit of funding from the provincial government and that frees up money raised from membership fees to help subsidize tournaments. I think they also do a great job of tapping the many head offices in Montreal for sponsorship but things are not easy there as recently sponsorship has not been so easy to find and as a result the FQE have had some losses. We can't count on sponsors as it depends on the economy and whether we can find someone favourably disposed towards chess. You can't usually tap the same sponsors over and over.

I am a bit worried about the situation in Toronto and Montreal where venue prices have gone up significantly. Its not enough that they already make almost 100% of the profit but they want to make 120% which is certainly not possible unless a kindly organizer is wealthy and generous.