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I'm not quite sure what to make of all the angst among the NDP ranks re: the discussion & passage of the radical environmentalist/socialist/communist Leap Maifesto to be now discussed as future party policy. Surely any jobs lost due to the shutdown of the oilsands & the forbiddence building future pipelines will be more than made up for by other jobs created in the brave new worker's paradise.
Even you have to admit you are being a teensy weensy bit dismissive.........
Bob A
I suppose so... :) Nevertheless, the NDP has always struck *me* as being 'the sky is falling' party,
but maybe that is because they are normally perpetually in opposition (with some provincial exceptions here and there).
I hope they find someone to lead the party with some charisma (Jack Layton was the best choice in that regard ...)
The Conservatives have a similar problem with leadership - the liberals lucked out with Justin (and Sophie) and they will
ride that horse for quite some time...
I wasted a few minutes today reading the "Leap Manifesto". What a pile of ultra left wing socialist tripe. It reads like it was written by a high school student with no real world experience. The idea is that if we could just eliminate those evil capitalists we could have rainbows and unicorns for everybody. No explanation how, but if we just believe and leap, it can happen. The Alberta and BC NDP will have to distance themselves from the federal NDP party if they actually want to be elected.
I wasted a few minutes today reading the "Leap Manifesto". What a pile of ultra left wing socialist tripe. It reads like it was written by a high school student with no real world experience. The idea is that if we could just eliminate those evil capitalists we could have rainbows and unicorns for everybody. No explanation how, but if we just believe and leap, it can happen. The Alberta and BC NDP will have to distance themselves from the federal NDP party if they actually want to be elected.
The NDP moved to the political right in a block-headed move that was supposed to help them form a government. It was an abysmal failure. Mulcair paid for that by losing his job. The Leap Manifesto simply represents some other currents in the NDP, and the left generally. If you were paying attention recently, then you may have noticed how Corbyn in the UK and Sanders in the USA - both socialists - are getting enormous public support. People are sick of the old line parties who offer nothing new and a lemming-like rush to the precipice of extinction. In any case, it's probably useful to compare the speeches by Alberta Premier Notley with that by Stephen Lewis. Naomi Klein has also spoken out on the Manfesto.
I'd love to see her debate anyone who takes such an antagonistic and hostile view of the Manifesto. She'd shred them and spit out the pits.
Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Tuesday, 12th April, 2016, 01:41 AM.
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
The Leap Manifesto is only being studied it has not been adopted. It is badly written. Many of us who are leftwing socialists might reent this being called leftwing socialism. I see little analysis of the working class or concern for it. Parts of it can rightly be labeled champagne socialism.
Are Naomi Klein and Avi Lewis champagne socialists? I've heard them referred to as (sometimes resented) NDP party "tourists", in that they move in and out of the party whenever it suits their purposes.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
The Leap Manifesto is only being studied it has not been adopted.
This is an important point. There's plenty of mainstream media that is gleefully mis-representing this.
Mind you, the NDP is just like the other parties in Parliament in certain important ways, e.g., that party leaders are known to habitually ignore policy that doesn't suit them, invent policy that doesn't exist, and, generally act as though the membership is there to serve them and not the other way around.
Tom Mulcair discovered that an angry membership can send any leader on a quick, and permanent, political vacation. Mind you, I have to laugh at the dismay expressed by right-wing pundits over Mulcair's defeat... as if they were experts on what's best for the NDP and wouldn't just be happier if the NDP disappeared.
They have time to debate these important issues ... which is good.
The response from politicians and commentators to the Leap Manifesto, a policy proposal to government from Canadian civil society, has been surprising.
Much of the proposals contained in the manifesto flow from an acceptance of things we know to be true: that climate change is real and threatens our society and economy, that some groups of Canadians are more disadvantaged than others, and that dirty energy affects Indigenous communities on the frontlines of industrial sites foremost, to name a few.
Far from being an elite and far-fetched radical proposal, the Leap Manifesto, with its roots in the country’s diverse civil society and the latest scientific research, reveals the zeitgeist of how Canadians want to live and do business with one another.
Most of the concerns about the Leap Manifesto are addressed here. There is also a link so you can read it for yourself.
Last edited by Nigel Hanrahan; Wednesday, 13th April, 2016, 03:11 PM.
Reason: Greenpeace piece
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
"Across Canada for the past three days the right wing media has been attacking the NDP for passing a resolution agreeing to “discuss” over the next two years the Leap Manifesto, a common sense document that calls for taking global warming seriously, actually doing what is necessary to prevent our planet from being cooked and trying to create a better world while we attempt to ensure our collective survival.
Of course condemnations from the Tyrannosaurus Rex Murphys (a right wing commentator who likes to use big words) of the media were to be expected, but the surprise has been the animated defence of the status quo by supposedly social democratic union leaders and politicians."
Actually, it's my understanding that T. Rex Murphy (lol) got plenty of $ from the oil and gas industry in some of those big payday easy speeches to friendly audiences sort-of-thing. So plenty of people treat his fossil fuel cheer-leading with the skepticism that it deserves. Engler concludes:
the Leap Manifesto states the obvious: To prevent our planet from being cooked we need to stop burning carbon, which means stop building pipelines, which means abandoning car-dominated transport, which means refineries and auto plants will be shut down. And that scares people, especially the ones who work in these industries.
But real leadership means confronting the right-wing media attacks head on, not scurrying around talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Real leadership means saying: Corporate capitalism burned too much carbon, causing global warming and threatening our planet’s future. We need to stop it. Significant change will be required. Some people will be forced to get new jobs, but we will advocate for retraining and other support.
As a former leader of a union local that represents newspaper workers I know how hard it is to tell members their jobs are disappearing. But real leadership requires telling the truth, discussing that reality with members and coming up with collective solutions.
Ignoring the truth will never set you free.
That ought to stir the pot a little. (grins)
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
Re: Dear Leap Manifesto critics: there will be no jobs on a dead planet
Hi Nigel
One thing I don't understand about Green Energy is why environmentalists are defending wind turbines, with their known heath risks for people, plus their being a blight on the landscape, and their being a menace to birds far worse than certain buildings with glass windows in, say, Ottawa (which some activists are campagning against without any similar concern for turbines). That's even if wind turbines could actually contribute sgnificantly and efficiently to the power grid, without being installed in exceedingly large numbers.
Another concern I have about (extreme?) environmentalists is the (conspiracy?) theory that they not only want us to go pre-industrial, but want the world's human population drastically reduced (with themselves, of course, deciding which sort of people are to live on).
I could also get into The Club of Rome, the UN's Agenda 21 and groups of people or countries bent on world domination (including using environmentalist 'concerns' as a tool), but this sort of thing is often dismissed as pure conspiracy theory, so I don't care too much if anyone addresses it.
Last edited by Kevin Pacey; Thursday, 14th April, 2016, 10:32 PM.
Reason: Spelling
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
One thing I don't understand about Green Energy is why environmentalists are defending wind turbines, with their known heath risks for people, plus their being a blight on the landscape, and their being a menace to birds far worse than certain buildings with glass windows in, say, Ottawa (which some activists are campagning against without any similar concern for turbines). That's even if wind turbines could actually contribute sgnificantly and efficiently to the power grid, without being installed in exceedingly large numbers.
Other parts of the world, like the EU for example, have massive public support for the growing use of wind power. I think it is 80%. So I'd say it's probably here to stay.
Another concern I have about (extreme?) environmentalists is the (conspiracy?) theory that they not only want us to go pre-industrial, but want the world's human population drastically reduced (with themselves, of course, deciding which sort of people are to live on).
A source or a link would be helpful. In the past it was Malthusian thinkers, or the super rich, or Dr. Strangelove, who addressed population concerns with the idea that many people have to die so the few survivors can live.
I could also get into The Club of Rome, the UN's Agenda 21 and groups of people or countries bent on world domination (including using environmentalist 'concerns' as a tool), but this sort of thing is often dismissed as pure conspiracy theory, so I don't care too much if anyone addresses it.
OK, then I won't address it. Cheers.
Dogs will bark, but the caravan of chess moves on.
Posted by Kevin Pacey Another concern I have about (extreme?) environmentalists is the (conspiracy?) theory that they not only want us to go pre-industrial, but want the world's human population drastically reduced (with themselves, of course, deciding which sort of people are to live on).
Posted by Nigel Hanrahan A source or a link would be helpful. In the past it was Malthusian thinkers, or the super rich, or Dr. Strangelove, who addressed population concerns with the idea that many people have to die so the few survivors can live.
Hi Nigel
Here's a wikipedia link for you that alludes to what I mentioned:
Another problem I have with left-leaning thinking/myths is that I've read that in the US, the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax collected in modern times (a search on the web concurred). There is a similar disconnect I've heard about the richest paying taxes disproportionately in Canada.
I was also a little stunned (though maybe I shouldn't have been) to hear that there has been no decline in the honeybee population in recent years, at least. I found mention of this on the web, for more than just one search result.
Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's law, by Edward A. Murphy Jr., USAF, Aerospace Engineer
Another problem I have with left-leaning thinking/myths is that I've read that in the US, the top 1% pay 50% of the income tax collected in modern times (a search on the web concurred). There is a similar disconnect I've heard about the richest paying taxes disproportionately in Canada.
I was also a little stunned (though maybe I shouldn't have been) to hear that there has been no decline in the honeybee population in recent years, at least. I found mention of this on the web, for more than just one search result.
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