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Agenda for CFC voting member meeting Fall 2016 November 20 to 27
imho, a whole motions set should have been dismissed as out of order. Now somebody will need to update the Handbook with this mess (and it will require new motions, as logically you just can not cross a text out per your wish).
I feel really sorry that you are no longer governor. I understand your point. But why did you wait so long. My proposal was published first here on chesstalk in August, almost 4 months ago.
To be honest, I didn't care much about CFC Handbook. Big part of the Handbook is completely out-of-date. For example, you can find there a 10-games requirement (now 20) or an old procedure for choosing the team captain (in Handbook the captain is elected by players, in reality the captain is appointed by the executive).
So, I had to wait until the Handbook is updated? Life is too short.
Last edited by Victor Plotkin; Monday, 5th December, 2016, 04:46 PM.
I thought to write smth when you published them on chesscanada but got distracted by other things. Though, Secretary and President should make sure that the tabled motions do not create issues with other clauses of the Handbook. The procedure for submitting motions was quite clear in the old bylaws.
I thought to write smth when you published them on chesscanada but got distracted by other things. Though, Secretary and President should make sure that the tabled motions do not create issues with other clauses of the Handbook. The procedure for submitting motions was quite clear in the old bylaws.
If somebody is willing to fully update this part of the Handbook (about Olympiad), I am happy to assist. I believe, I know all relevant rules and motions. Actually, I don't think that the special new motion is needed after the update.
The mess was in the Handbook long time ago. This mess made the Handbook almost irrelevant.
I guess, the discussion about Handbook should take place on the CFC forum and not here, on chesstalk.
Re: Agenda for CFC voting member meeting Fall 2016 November 20 to 27
Victor Plotkin wrote: Funny, Ken you did not find any worthy motion to support. You voted "abstain" twice and "No" 4 times. Probably, our vice-president was not happy with the proposal in general (or believe that our selection process was the best in the world and no improvement was needed).
To which Ken replies that the series of motions was a flawed manner to deal with this topic. It should have been one motion with a series of amendments not this series of motions that could have lead to a Frankenstein's monster of qualifying rules.
The motion clearly "discriminated" by age. Nothing magic about the word, Viktor, it has a clear dictionary definition. The only debate was whether or not some people believed this discrimination was a good thing.
Victor Plotkin wrote: Funny, Ken you did not find any worthy motion to support. You voted "abstain" twice and "No" 4 times. Probably, our vice-president was not happy with the proposal in general (or believe that our selection process was the best in the world and no improvement was needed).
To which Ken replies that the series of motions was a flawed manner to deal with this topic. It should have been one motion with a series of amendments not this series of motions that could have lead to a Frankenstein's monster of qualifying rules.
The motion clearly "discriminated" by age. Nothing magic about the word, Viktor, it has a clear dictionary definition. The only debate was whether or not some people believed this discrimination was a good thing.
Ken,
Based on the data presented here and by Victor on the CFC forum, why do you believe the "discrimination" by age is not a good thing?
Re: Agenda for CFC voting member meeting Fall 2016 November 20 to 27
The mess in the handbook is being addressed, finally, I believe. Once we have everything in there we will have to decide what to do with it. I am not entirely comfortable with the ambiguity of our current handbook which is clearly not NFP act compliant in large measure.
Addressing the rest of the mess is more challenging.
On the youth bonus measure, it was somewhat discriminatory but justified in that it gives young players an opportunity which they might need in order to become better. It did not pass. I understand why it did not pass. Where we have two somewhat equal contenders it is probably a good idea to go with the younger player though it is also a good idea to look for some balance. If you have a young team sending a veteran along can be a good thing to balance the team out.
Re: Agenda for CFC voting member meeting Fall 2016 November 20 to 27
I guess I'm off topic just a little but I'd like to comment on the CFC Handbook. I maintain the two chapters on Rating and Chess Foundation. I regularly submit changes to the governors and executive based on recommendations from the members and I adhere to the policies and procedures published in the handbook.
For example, a motion was approved at the recent governors' meeting to accept USCF and FQE ratings for certain calculations and I am re-wording the appropriate article.
I don't buy the argument that the Handbook has been rendered obsolete by the NFP Act. We still need operating guidelines or whatever you want to call them. I do acknowledge that through years of patchwork, the Handbook, including my two chapters, needs a re-make. I'll be happy to work with whoever takes on that project.
Rene,
It could leave a higher rated veteran off the team and I doubt it would stand up to judicial review.
The Canadian Human Rights Act applies to federally regulated activities. CFC is a "club" where members pay a fee to participate, and should be free to set its own rules. Of course I could be wrong.....unfortunately the only way to find out, now that common sense seems to be thing of the past, is for a throng of lawyers, and perhaps a poster or two, to intimidate the ordinary guy, or club, into submission!
"Stickler for details" chess players can be their own worst enemies......
I don't buy the argument that the Handbook has been rendered obsolete by the NFP Act. We still need operating guidelines or whatever you want to call them. I do acknowledge that through years of patchwork, the Handbook, including my two chapters, needs a re-make. I'll be happy to work with whoever takes on that project.
Technically the handbook has been rendered obsolete because that is what we agreed to with the government when we submitted the continuation articles. We had no choice as the alternative was to dissolve and send what we call the foundation money to the government or some charities. That was what was so frustrating at the end when some people were under the impression that we could reject what was agreed to and start over. At that point, the likely outcome would have been the death of the CFC.
Before the NFP act, the handbook was our bylaws. After the NFP act our bylaws with respect to governance were separated out. At the moment the handbook holds sway because the position of the executive has been that it continues to hold sway as a repository of our policies. At some point it needs to be updated to be NFP act compliant and then be accepted by the members as current CFC policy and we will have brought balance to the force again. At the moment, we are not ready to try to do that.
Step one is the current review which will bring the old handbook up to date.
Most likely we will bring together the provisions for the Olympiad team and post it on our website. The Youth portfolio of rules would be the logical next step. The rating related questions will be another portion of the puzzle.
Rene,
It could leave a higher rated veteran off the team and I doubt it would stand up to judicial review.
The same thing happened when the committee selected GM Lesiege, a lower rated player that GM Sambuev.
Which of the following "higher rated veteran" do you think would go to court if he was left out of the team because of motion 5B5?
Player
FIDE
Bareev, Evgeny
2666
Kovalyov, Anton
2647
Hansen, Eric
2603
Sambuev, Bator
2539
Lesiege, Alexandre
2521
The same can be said about motion 5B4. What if a player is sick or have really good reasons not to play in the Canadian Closed? Can he take CFC to court because he was penalized by 10 points?
Technically the handbook has been rendered obsolete because that is what we agreed to with the government when we submitted the continuation articles. We had no choice as the alternative was to dissolve and send what we call the foundation money to the government or some charities. That was what was so frustrating at the end when some people were under the impression that we could reject what was agreed to and start over. At that point, the likely outcome would have been the death of the CFC.
Before the NFP act, the handbook was our bylaws. After the NFP act our bylaws with respect to governance were separated out. At the moment the handbook holds sway because the position of the executive has been that it continues to hold sway as a repository of our policies. At some point it needs to be updated to be NFP act compliant and then be accepted by the members as current CFC policy and we will have brought balance to the force again. At the moment, we are not ready to try to do that.
Step one is the current review which will bring the old handbook up to date.
Most likely we will bring together the provisions for the Olympiad team and post it on our website. The Youth portfolio of rules would be the logical next step. The rating related questions will be another portion of the puzzle.
Am I getting it correctly that currently CFC has no bylaw, handbook or anything to govern its operation?
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