Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

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  • #46
    Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

    Carleson wins game 10, match tied. I watched the whole thing, I'm exhausted.

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    • #47
      Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

      We are getting our money's worth. The pressure must be incredible on both players. I am exhausted just watching them. I know they are young and fit but this is crazy stress and it is amazing they can think at all in these conditions.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

        Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

        November 24, 2016

        Game Ten

        For those who like to watch American television on their Thanksgiving, this game stretched alongside of the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, the National Dog Show, and three football games (Detroit, Dallas and Pittsburgh).

        World Championship
        New York City
        Game 10, Nov. 24, 2016
        Carlsen, Magnus – Karjakin, Sergey
        C65 Ruy Lopez, Berlin Defence

        1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.d3 Bc5 5.c3 O-O 6.Bg5 h6 7.Bh4 Be7 8.O-O d6 9.Nbd2 Nh5 10.Bxe7 Qxe7 11.Nc4 Nf4 12.Ne3 Qf6 13.g3 Nh3+ 14.Kh1 Ne7 15.Bc4 c6 16.Bb3 Ng6 17.Qe2 a5 18.a4 Be6 19.Bxe6 fxe6 20.Nd2 d5 21.Qh5 Ng5 22.h4 Nf3 23.Nxf3 Qxf3+ 24.Qxf3 Rxf3 25.Kg2 Rf7 26.Rfe1 h5 27.Nf1 Kf8 28.Nd2 Ke7 29.Re2 Kd6 30.Nf3 Raf8 31.Ng5 Re7 32.Rae1 Rfe8 33.Nf3 Nh8 34.d4 exd4 35.Nxd4 g6 36.Re3 Nf7 37.e5+ Kd7 38.Rf3 Nh6 39.Rf6 Rg7 40.b4 axb4 41.cxb4 Ng8 42.Rf3 Nh6 43.a5 Nf5 44.Nb3 Kc7 45.Nc5 Kb8 46.Rb1 Ka7 47.Rd3 Rc7 48.Ra3 Nd4 49.Rd1 Nf5 50.Kh3 Nh6 51.f3 Rf7 52.Rd4 Nf5 53.Rd2 Rh7 54.Rb3 Ree7 55.Rdd3 Rh8 56.Rb1 Rhh7 57.b5 cxb5 58.Rxb5 d4 59.Rb6 Rc7 60.Nxe6 Rc3 61.Nf4 Rhc7 62.Nd5 Rxd3 63.Nxc7 Kb8 64.Nb5 Kc8 65.Rxg6 Rxf3 66.Kg2 Rb3 67.Nd6+ Nxd6 68.Rxd6 Re3 69.e6 Kc7 70.Rxd4 Rxe6 71.Rd5 Rh6 72.Kf3 Kb8 73.Kf4 Ka7 74.Kg5 Rh8 75.Kf6 1-0

        (Robert Hess at chess.com):

        After 20. Nd2 we got the critical moment in the game and perhaps the whole 2016 World Championship: 20…Nxf2+! would end the game quickly after 21. Kg2 Nh4+! 22. Kg1 (22. gxh4 Qg6+ and White is down a pawn with a shattered structure) 22…Nh3+ 23. Kh1 Nf2+ and a repetition. Sergey said he’d seen 20…Nxf2, but after 21. Kg1 Nh3+ 22. Kg2 he’d missed that Black can fork the queen and king by putting either knight on f4. Play could potentially continue, but Black would at least be no worse and Magnus wasn't planning to enter a line that might all but end the match.

        56. Rb1 Rhh7?? Oh no. After defending for many moves, Karjakin cracks. This is the mistake Carlsen was waiting for. Black is totally stuck, and can't defend b7 and e6.

        (56... Nh6 kept the status quo. White would love to play g4, but it doesn't quite pan out: 57. g4 (57. b5 cxb5 58. Rxb5 Rc8is needed to keep the rook from entering on b6.) 57... g5! and Karjakin would exchange kingside pawns, giving him necessary activity and a clear path towards equality.)

        57. b5! Crashing through.

        62. Nd5 Carlsen must have calculated that exchanging the rooks in this manner -- where the black king gets stuck on the back rank -- was superior to capturing the pawn on g6. This is not a purely objective assessment, but that there are fewer pitfalls along the way to victory.

        (62. Rxg6 Rxd3 63. Nxd3 Rc3 64. Rf6is an important inclusion, protecting the pawn on f3. (64. Nf4 Rxf3 65. Nxh5 Rf1allows drawing chances. The passed d-pawn and the threat of Ne3 followed by Rh1 (mate) keeps Black in the game.))

        Notes:

        Chess.com also learned the specifics to the appeal filed by Team Carlsen, which was resolved today. According to the regulations, Carlsen was imposed a 10 percent fine of his prize money for skipping the round eight press conference. Half the fine was to go to FIDE and half to Agon, and the amount would range from $40,000-$60,000 USD depending on the result.

        FIDE Press Officer Anastasia Karlovich told Chess.com that the appeal did not seek to waive the fine, but only to reduce it. She said the appeals committee upheld this request and reduced the fine to five percent. It was her understanding that both organizations would now receive 2.5 percent.
        ___________

        Mark Crowther in The Week in Chess:

        http://theweekinchess.com

        Magnus Carlsen won an extremely tense six and half hour struggle against Sergey Karjakin to equalise the match at 5-5. In a game with many turning points it looked for a long time like Karjakin would hold out for a draw but Carlsen eventually showed some of the skills that make him the best player in the World and finally broke the resistance Karjakin.

        Carlsen returned to the quiet 4.d3 against the Berlin and hoped to outplay his opponent in a long positional game. Karjakin looked to be under a small amount of pressure before Carlsen erred with 19.Bxe6 which computers immediately pronounced as an equal position with 20.Nxf2 and 21.Nxf2. After this an extremely long endgame resulted where Carlsen could press at will it seemed and Karjakin had to wait. Karjakin could have tried to play g5 at some point but clearly felt his position was a fortress.

        Carlsen showed his great experience in winning endgames against the best by waiting and waiting for his only breakthrough try with b5. He eventually played it under the best circumstances after 56...Rhh7? and was winning after second time control. Karjakin gambled with 61.Rhc7 and was rewarded with the inferior 62.Nd5 but even so the defensive task was beyond him.

        This was a far from perfect game but was at times an unbearably tense struggle which leaves the match tied at 5-5 with two games to go and possible rapid and blitz tiebreaks after that.

        Rest day Friday 25th November.

        Game 11 Saturday 26th November
        Last edited by Wayne Komer; Friday, 25th November, 2016, 02:19 AM.

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        • #49
          Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

          Originally posted by John Coleman View Post
          Carleson wins game 10, match tied. I watched the whole thing, I'm exhausted.
          Who's that Carleson guy you're exhaustly talking about?

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          • #50
            Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

            Well, I told you I was exhausted. Too exhausted to spell, clearly.

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            • #51
              Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

              As predicted, game eleven was a relatively short draw (34 moves) setting up the grand finale on Monday or, if needed, the tie breaks on Wednesday.

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              • #52
                Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                Not as short a draw as seen on the EOCA circuit ... when beer 'n' wings are calling.

                I very much liked 19...d5

                Wouldn't it'd be awesome to Carlsen revisit the Tromp in game 12!?!

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                • #53
                  Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                  Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                  November 26, 2016

                  Game Eleven

                  World Championship
                  New York City
                  Game 11, Nov. 26, 2016
                  Karjakin, Sergey – Carlsen, Magnus
                  C84 Ruy Lopez, Closed (7…d6)

                  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.d3 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.a3 O-O 9.Nc3 Be6 10.Nd5 Nd4 11.Nxd4 exd4 12.Nxf6+ Bxf6 13.Bxe6 fxe6 14.f4 c5 15.Qg4 Qd7 16.f5 Rae8 17.Bd2 c4 18.h3 c3 19.bxc3 d5 20.Bg5 Bxg5 21.Qxg5 dxe4 22.fxe6 Rxf1+ 23.Rxf1 Qxe6 24.cxd4 e3 25.Re1 h6 26.Qh5 e2 27.Qf3 a5 28.c3 Qa2 29.Qc6 Re6 30.Qc8+ Kh7 31.c4 Qd2 32.Qxe6 Qxe1+ 33.Kh2 Qf2 34.Qe4+ 1/2-1/2

                  (Peter Doggers at chess.com) - Magnus Carlsen played a wonderful idea today, but it wasn't enough to create winning chances. With one game to go in the 2016 World Championship, to be played on Monday, his match with GM Sergey Karjakin is tied 5.5-5.5.

                  Only twice before has a world championship been decided in a playoff (Kramnik-Topalov, 2006 and Anand-Gelfand, 2012), but we could well be seeing the same scenario this year in New York. After Carlsen's wonderful 19... d5, both a good move and a psychological punch, Karjakin took a deep thought, kept his cool, and then the game quickly petered out to a draw.

                  After another rest day, the world champion will have the white pieces in game 12. If things are not decided on Monday, we'll see a playoff on Wednesday (again starting at 2 p. m. New York time) consisting of four rapid games, and if necessary, blitz to follow.

                  The game itself saw another 6. d3 Ruy Lopez, the same choice by Karjakin as in the second game of the match. But again it was Carlsen who was the first to deviate: He played 9... Be6 instead of 9... Na5.

                  Once again Carlsen did not give his opponent the chance to improve upon earlier play.

                  White lost his advantage with the slow push 12. h3, which commentator Judit Polgar didn't like—one of the reasons being that the typical maneuver Rf1-f3-h3 was no longer an option for White. "It was probably a very bad move," Karjakin would later admit.

                  As if he wanted to "refute" this little pawn move, Carlsen came up with the amazing 18... c3 19. bxc3 d5!?, a concept praised by experts in New York and on Twitter.

                  Maybe objectively speaking Carlsen's idea wasn't even better than taking back on c3 immediately, but it was definitely the more challenging option. Karjakin had to calculate a lot of moves (and a lot of branches of variations connected to them), such as 20. c4, 20. fxe6 and 20. Bg5.

                  Suddenly, there was a lot of room for White to make a mistake.

                  After 27 minutes, Karjakin chose to trade the bishops, and practically speaking, that was an excellent decision. As Peter Svidler put it, "Once the position threatened to get slightly out of control, [Karjakin] went for the most solid option."

                  So, did he see 19... d5 coming or not? "I have seen basically all these ideas for Black but I didn't understand that they are so good," said Karjakin at the press conference. "I thought that it's maybe equal. I agree that it was a bit careless from my side."

                  (Robert Hess at chess.com)

                  18... c3 And Carlsen presses forward. White's queenside is getting shattered as Black starts to take the initiative. 19. bxc3 d5! Most players would have immediately recaptured the pawn, but Carlsen wants more from the position. With this move, he forces Karjakin into a deep think. This is definitely not what Karjakin, perhaps still reeling from his Thanksgiving loss, wanted out of the opening with the white pieces. Magnus has received all the dynamic opportunities the position offers, whereas Karjakin is stuck playing defence.

                  (19... dxc3 20. Be3 allows the bishop a new diagonal, which makes his next few decisions easier than the game continuation. Black has the advantage on the queenside; in the long run, the three on two from the a- through c-files will prove bothersome. If all major pieces are exchanged, progress with a5-b4 will be hard to meet. Note that in many endgames, Black can actually jettison his b-pawn, for when White captures the a-pawn roams free. The center is less of an issue in the endgame, when the king is happier to meet a convoy of pawns in the middle of the board than on the flanks.)

                  Online Comments

                  - There are three categories of play: Classic, Rapid, and Blitz. I think it is misleading to have the World Champion of the Classic category decided by Rapid and Blitz games. I would prefer that they continue to play an additional two games until a winner emerges.

                  - Really dumb of Agon to have so many rest days at the weekends.

                  - Nothing is broken here. Sure, we have 1-1 with 9 draws, but the games have all been very interesting. I just wish we had 24-game matches. Then the players would be able to take more risks. As it stands, a 12-game match leaves absolutely no room for error. One loss puts you in very bad shape.

                  - To me this was the first game in the whole match, where Carlsen played a whole game in normal, strong Carlsen mood: cool, calm and collected, going for a slightly worse structure not fearing a strong white kingside, and asking "show me what you can do?" In some other games, he had opening successes with black resulting in fast and easy draws, but I saw no game played throughout with todays level of skill and self-confidence. He missed nothing essential at all, and was even able to take over the initiative with black. He probably is just in time to be back to normal - and in THIS form he can become a real threat.

                  The answers of both concerning the relation of chess skill and psychology were also interesting. Both of their answers made sense in a way. But it seems Magnus has freed himself from any "world champion (self-)expectations" finally, and is just back to good moves instead of complicated feelings (the Fischer perspective), while Sergey pointed out that psychology of course plays a big role in the finish. That's perfectly true: but including the option not to feel too much of it, by being your own, feeling ok with yourself and able to focus.

                  Once more Karjakin played excellent pragmatic chess, and he will be a hard nut to crack no matter what! He really deserves respect for what he is doing at the chessboard. But he also showed some of the 'leaning towards prophylaxis and security' again, and of hesitating and shying away from complicated, unbalanced positions, whenever in doubt (h3 to secure his queen just in case, Bg5 to secure the draw etc.). In games against a Magnus in normal form, in a black classical game first and then in fast chess (rapid and blitz), this attitude might be felt as increasing weight on Karjakin's shoulders from my view, even with his high level of skill.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                    Originally posted by Wayne Komer View Post
                    Online Comments

                    - There are three categories of play: Classic, Rapid, and Blitz. I think it is misleading to have the World Champion of the Classic category decided by Rapid and Blitz games. I would prefer that they continue to play an additional two games until a winner emerges.

                    - Really dumb of Agon to have so many rest days at the weekends.

                    - Nothing is broken here. Sure, we have 1-1 with 9 draws, but the games have all been very interesting. I just wish we had 24-game matches. Then the players would be able to take more risks. As it stands, a 12-game match leaves absolutely no room for error. One loss puts you in very bad shape.

                    Just putting this out for commentary: It seems a lot of followers of WC chess would like to see 24 game matches again. Instead of that, things have moved towards shorter matches of slow games and then rapid and blitz to decide an equal result after the slow games.

                    But what about a return to 24-game matches where 2 games are played per day? With the idea being that for each day, both players have to prepare for being both White and Black. If the schedule was two consecutive days of 2 matches per day, followed by a rest day, the 24-game match would be complete within 18 days.

                    Another possible benefit of this: there would be more over-the-board calculation and less influence of pre-game computer preparation. But at the same time, it reduces the chance of the match going to rapid and blitz, which to my mind is more of a drastic step than the 2 matches per day. As was pointed out, if this match goes to rapid / blitz, then just in the past 10 years no less than THREE WC matches will have been decided by rapid / blitz stage. Soon we will have to call it the World Rapid / Blitz Championship?

                    Some might say 2 matches per day would be extremely exhausting. Maybe the time control or increment would have to be reduced slightly to make it less strenuous, but I still think the key is to reduce the influence of pre-game preparation. Have them work things out over the board RATHER THAN at a computer screen.... but not in seconds as often happens with rapid / blitz. The ultimate benefit could be less draws but without time-pressure mistakes. And physical conditioning would also become a bigger component of the match.
                    Only the rushing is heard...
                    Onward flies the bird.

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                    • #55
                      Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                      24 games in 18 days? Dumbest thing I've read so far today. But hey, the day is still young!

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                      • #56
                        Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                        Originally posted by Mathieu Cloutier View Post
                        24 games in 18 days? Dumbest thing I've read so far today. But hey, the day is still young!
                        Still the dumbest thing I've read today. But there's plenty of time left. I'll update you guys this evening.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                          Originally posted by Mathieu Cloutier View Post
                          Still the dumbest thing I've read today. But there's plenty of time left. I'll update you guys this evening.
                          Fine, then give them a rest day every second day so that it's 24 games in 24 days. The important part is the return to 24 games and doing 2 games per day, for the benefits I outlined.
                          Only the rushing is heard...
                          Onward flies the bird.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                            Originally posted by Paul Bonham View Post
                            Fine, then give them a rest day every second day so that it's 24 games in 24 days. The important part is the return to 24 games and doing 2 games per day, for the benefits I outlined.
                            I agree with you that the current format is sub-optimal. But playing 2 games a day is just too much. These guys do spend more energy on one game than you ever do for a whole tournament.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                              Oh great! Lets have every patzer on the planet vote to decide how the best two should compete for the World Championship title.
                              What might make sense is to have the top 10 or 20 rated players sit down and work out the format.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Games of the Carlsen-Karjakin W.C.C. Match

                                Originally posted by Mathieu Cloutier View Post
                                I agree with you that the current format is sub-optimal. But playing 2 games a day is just too much. These guys do spend more energy on one game than you ever do for a whole tournament.
                                I'm going to ignore Vlad Dobrich's comment -- not anything against you, Vlad (if you're reading this), but just that we're not deciding anything here. This is just exploring pros and cons of various ways to keep the WC from being decided by rapid / blitz games.

                                Mathieu, I have seen how much energy players of various strengths put into weekend Swiss tournaments where they are playing 2 games a day for 3 straight days. Why is it not "too much" for them? Sure, the WC is not at stake, but it's not like anyone is collapsing in exhaustion either.

                                Personally, I think these elite players are babied too much. With all the time they have, they are doing such intensive pre-game computer analysis that it is getting harder and harder for either player to truly get an edge. Even Kramnik famously complained about this a few years ago. And Mathieu, you yourself complained how boring the match has been.

                                Imo, the whole thing needs to return to being an over-the-board battle as it was before computer engines came along. What needs to be remembered is that this isn't the World Chess Championship, it is the World Human Chess Championship. If you made the WC players play 2 games per day, with a rest day in between, they would adjust their energy levels accordingly, just as a long distance runner adjust his or her energy output based on the length of the race.

                                Would there be more mistakes? Perhaps.... but that's what makes human chess more interesting than computer chess. And I would add that mistakes made during slow play are more indicative of human chess ability than mistakes made during a blitz melee.
                                Last edited by Paul Bonham; Sunday, 27th November, 2016, 10:24 PM.
                                Only the rushing is heard...
                                Onward flies the bird.

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