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Sorry Paul, but your post doesn't address the quote you took from my post in any way or form.
And you conveniently left out the part where I point out that your elucubrations about a revolutionary 12 games match format just end up exactly like giving draw odds to the champion. So... I take it that we agree your new format is just useless verbiage for 'draw odds'.
Oh, my, the depths to which you will dig to try and prove yourself worthwhile!
I did not say anything about a "new format". Sure, it's draw odds. Never disputed that. Awwwwww. Don't look so forlorn! There's always tomorrow, next week, next month, next year. Poor little loser.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
Oh, my, the depths to which you will dig to try and prove yourself worthwhile!
I did not say anything about a "new format". Sure, it's draw odds. Never disputed that. Awwwwww. Don't look so forlorn! There's always tomorrow, next week, next month, next year. Poor little loser.
For clarity, here's what I wrote: "You wouldn't actually need the 13th game. Let the 12th game be the one that decides, and defending champion gets Black in that game." Do any of you see "new format" in that statement?
Now, let's compare the two scenarios:
(1) 12 game format, draw odds to champion. Score after 11 games is 5.5 to 5.5. Challenger is White in game 12.
Challenger must win game 12 to become WC. Anything else and champion retains title.
(2) 13 game format if match is tied 6-6 after 12 games. Score after 11 games is 5.5 to 5.5. Challenger is White in game 12.
Challenger can draw game 12 to delay match outcome until game 13, in which challenger will again be White and will again need to win to become WC.
Actually, adding the possibility of the 13th game is advantage to the challenger. S/he can play for a win in game 12 and always revert to a draw and still remain alive for the 13th game. The champion now has 2 games in which to lose the title rather than just the 1. Drawing the first of those 2 games wouldn't win the title for the champion as it would in the 12-game draw odds scenario. Advantage challenger.
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
For clarity, here's what I wrote: "You wouldn't actually need the 13th game. Let the 12th game be the one that decides, and defending champion gets Black in that game." Do any of you see "new format" in that statement?
Now, let's compare the two scenarios:
(1) 12 game format, draw odds to champion. Score after 11 games is 5.5 to 5.5. Challenger is White in game 12.
Challenger must win game 12 to become WC. Anything else and champion retains title.
(2) 13 game format if match is tied 6-6 after 12 games. Score after 11 games is 5.5 to 5.5. Challenger is White in game 12.
Challenger can draw game 12 to delay match outcome until game 13, in which challenger will again be White and will again need to win to become WC.
Actually, adding the possibility of the 13th game is advantage to the challenger. S/he can play for a win in game 12 and always revert to a draw and still remain alive for the 13th game. The champion now has 2 games in which to lose the title rather than just the 1. Drawing the first of those 2 games wouldn't win the title for the champion as it would in the 12-game draw odds scenario. Advantage challenger.
You sound like you're losing your train of thought even as you write your own stuff. First, the challenger is playing black in game 12 and he certainly doesn't have the advantage in that 13th game.
Last edited by Mathieu Cloutier; Wednesday, 30th November, 2016, 03:32 AM.
You sound like you're losing your train of thought even as you write your own stuff. First, the challenger is playing black in game 12 and he certainly doesn't have the advantage in that 13th game.
Dude! Stub out that reefer! Make yourself a coffee if you're going to stay up this late!
I wrote: "Let the 12th game be the one that decides, and defending champion gets Black in that game."
Only the rushing is heard...
Onward flies the bird.
All sorts of difficulty getting on the chess24.com site for the first game. Also ChessTalk down supposedly due to unpaid bills. Something always seems to happen for the first game.
World Chess Championship
New York City
Tiebreaks Rapid Game 1, Nov. 30, 2016
Karjakin, Sergey – Carlsen, Magnus
C84 Ruy Lopez, Closed
First game is drawn and there will be three more rapid. If the match is tied then, there will be five double round blitz to follow unless someone wins in the meantime.
Last edited by Wayne Komer; Wednesday, 30th November, 2016, 07:58 PM.
All sorts of difficulty getting on the chess24.com site for the first game. Also ChessTalk down supposedly due to unpaid bills. Something always seems to happen for the first game.
World Chess Championship
New York City
Tiebreaks
Rapid Game 1, Nov. 30, 2016
Karjakin, Sergey – Carlsen, Magnus
C84 Ruy Lopez, Closed
First game is drawn and there will be three more rapid. If the match is tied then, there will be five double round blitz to follow unless someone wins in the meantime.
Having trouble connecting to ChessBomb too - for third rapid.
World Chess, with Peter Doggers and Judit Polgar, is going strong as is chess24 with Peter Svidler and Jan Gustafsson. Chessbomb went down and is now up again. The explanation online was this:
ChessBomb: Apologies for the downtime everyone. There is an ongoing DDoS against us, but it was not the reason. Our database master overloaded the network bandwidth on its host, and we had to move it to a more powerful server.
World Chess Championship
New York City
Rapid Game 3, Nov. 30, 2016
Karjakin, Sergey – Carlsen, Magnus
C84 Ruy Lopez, Closed
(Jan Gustaffson) – People like when at tense positions in the game that I start talking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer
- Sergey looks calm and very very focussed.
- Never play f3, Sergey should learn this Ben Finegold rule
- Big black clouds over the white king
- Man, the Chessbomb server was overloaded. Every nerd in the universe has gathered here
- if Carlsen loses this match, rapid game 2 will haunt him for ages
- Yes but Karjakin was playing on reflex that ENTIRE endgame.
- at move 24 Magnus is ahead on the clock 15 minutes to 5 minutes for Sergey
- Later, I hope to see a grandmaster’s deep analysis of that last game. That was wild! And I must admit the endgame was way beyond my chess comprehension.
- This reminds me of that episode of the Simpsons where Homer would win after his opponents were exhausted from punching him, and at the end he gave them one punch to win the match
- Sergey is maybe a little like Grischuk: 1. get in time trouble 2. play strong moves
Sergey Karjakin blunders with 38. Rxc7 and resigns the game. Magnus must draw the last game to win the match.
Game 4 to follow.
Congratulations to World Champion Magnus Carlsen. From where I sat watching these games, it appeared that Magnus dominated throughout but had unusual difficulty putting Sergey away and, when he overpressed, actually lost a game. In the tie-breaks, again, Sergey was defending in the last three games and, given the rapid time controls, was not able to hold out. A great match.
(Pavel Eljanov) - Sergey is fighting like a lion-huge respect towards him. But the question is still open: for what they spent one million for preparation?
(Hikaru Nakamura) - 4 rapid games in 1 day to decide the WCH seems wrong. 2+2 makes a lot more sense if the goal is quality over quantity.
(Sebastien Maze) [after R3] - What an amazing game by Magnus !!!
(Nigel Short) - Out of curiosity, why haven't there been any body searches during games? FIDE seemed to think it was a great idea in Baku
(Paco Vallejo) [after R2] - This is one of the most unexpected saves I have seen in my life. No time . No Position. Unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
(Tarjel J. Svensen) - So Carlsen is white and needs a draw. If he loses this game, I will never play a chess game again in my life
- 22. g3?! amazing move
- what on earth? Does Magnus know he�s winning?
- Engine starts to like g3 more and more when reaching deeper evaluation
- I think Sergei has painted himself into a corner with 26�b6
- imagine Giri vs Karjakin in the WCC. First to win 10 games. The match would outlive my great grandson
- Thank you Jan, Peter and Eric for excellent coverage of the match!!
- At move 27 Sergei at 4 mins left! Magnus with 10.
- No draw, no resign, play to the end.
- Rc8+ Kh7 Qh6!!!!
- Now THAT is a beautiful mate!
- Congrats Carlsen!!!
- karjakin showed real class allowing this nice mate to be shown. Classy guy
_________
Magnus Carlsen retains his World Championship. Sergey Karjakin, a worthy challenger, and incredible in defence.
Final Score in the tiebreak Carlsen-Karjakin 3-1
Last edited by Wayne Komer; Thursday, 1st December, 2016, 12:13 AM.
Qh6 by Carlsen might seem simple from the comfort of our seats, with the engine running and all.
But we have to appreciate that it had to be planned well in advance. Because it is, literally, the only winning move. Without it, white is losing.
As Svidler said: in time pressure any GM, even super-GM, would have played something along the lines of 49.Qg3 to defend the possible checkmates. Carlsen had forseen the possibility of Rc8+ and a nice mate. I guess it sort of compensate for the missed wins in game 2 of the tiebreak.
Qh6 by Carlsen might seem simple from the comfort of our seats, with the engine running and all.
But we have to appreciate that it had to be planned well in advance. Because it is, literally, the only winning move. Without it, white is losing.
As Svidler said: in time pressure any GM, even super-GM, would have played something along the lines of 49.Qg3 to defend the possible checkmates. Carlsen had forseen the possibility of Rc8+ and a nice mate. I guess it sort of compensate for the missed wins in game 2 of the tiebreak.
True enough ... I saw a tweet that asked the question: "what is the winning move here for Carlsen?" Knowing that there WAS a single winning move made it easy(easier) to spot. I wasn't following the playoffs at all - in fact, I had to search Twitter to find out Carlsen had retained the title. Qh6+ was a spectacular shot all the same, but as I mentioned elsewhere, I do not like the playoff situation at all and didn't bother to watch. I saw a tweet this morning from Naka saying (essentially) that this WC was the first one since he started playing serious chess that he DID NOT follow glued to the games... Overall, a big let down from my perspective, but it did sort of underscore that Carlsen is damn close to unbeatable at the moment.
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