If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
Policy / Politique
The fee for tournament organizers advertising on ChessTalk is $20/event or $100/yearly unlimited for the year.
Les frais d'inscription des organisateurs de tournoi sur ChessTalk sont de 20 $/événement ou de 100 $/année illimitée.
You can etransfer to Henry Lam at chesstalkforum at gmail dot com
Transfér à Henry Lam à chesstalkforum@gmail.com
Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
General Guidelines
---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
Some Basics
1. Under Board "Frequently Asked Questions" (FAQs) there are 3 sections dealing with General Forum Usage, User Profile Features, and Reading and Posting Messages. These deal with everything from Avatars to Your Notifications. Most general technical questions are covered there. Here is a link to the FAQs. https://forum.chesstalk.com/help
2. Consider using the SEARCH button if you are looking for information. You may find your question has already been answered in a previous thread.
3. If you've looked for an answer to a question, and not found one, then you should consider asking your question in a new thread. For example, there have already been questions and discussion regarding: how to do chess diagrams (FENs); crosstables that line up properly; and the numerous little “glitches” that every new site will have.
4. Read pinned or sticky threads, like this one, if they look important. This applies especially to newcomers.
5. Read the thread you're posting in before you post. There are a variety of ways to look at a thread. These are covered under “Display Modes”.
6. Thread titles: please provide some details in your thread title. This is useful for a number of reasons. It helps ChessTalk members to quickly skim the threads. It prevents duplication of threads. And so on.
7. Unnecessary thread proliferation (e.g., deliberately creating a new thread that duplicates existing discussion) is discouraged. Look to see if a thread on your topic may have already been started and, if so, consider adding your contribution to the pre-existing thread. However, starting new threads to explore side-issues that are not relevant to the original subject is strongly encouraged. A single thread on the Canadian Open, with hundreds of posts on multiple sub-topics, is no better than a dozen threads on the Open covering only a few topics. Use your good judgment when starting a new thread.
8. If and/or when sub-forums are created, please make sure to create threads in the proper place.
Debate
9. Give an opinion and back it up with a reason. Throwaway comments such as "Game X pwnz because my friend and I think so!" could be considered pointless at best, and inflammatory at worst.
10. Try to give your own opinions, not simply those copied and pasted from reviews or opinions of your friends.
Unacceptable behavior and warnings
11. In registering here at ChessTalk please note that the same or similar rules apply here as applied at the previous Boardhost message board. In particular, the following content is not permitted to appear in any messages:
* Racism
* Hatred
* Harassment
* Adult content
* Obscene material
* Nudity or pornography
* Material that infringes intellectual property or other proprietary rights of any party
* Material the posting of which is tortious or violates a contractual or fiduciary obligation you or we owe to another party
* Piracy, hacking, viruses, worms, or warez
* Spam
* Any illegal content
* unapproved Commercial banner advertisements or revenue-generating links
* Any link to or any images from a site containing any material outlined in these restrictions
* Any material deemed offensive or inappropriate by the Board staff
12. Users are welcome to challenge other points of view and opinions, but should do so respectfully. Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Posts and threads with unacceptable content can be closed or deleted altogether. Furthermore, a range of sanctions are possible - from a simple warning to a temporary or even a permanent banning from ChessTalk.
Helping to Moderate
13. 'Report' links (an exclamation mark inside a triangle) can be found in many places throughout the board. These links allow users to alert the board staff to anything which is offensive, objectionable or illegal. Please consider using this feature if the need arises.
Advice for free
14. You should exercise the same caution with Private Messages as you would with any public posting.
Tl;dw - A new program called AlphaGo Zero needed 3ish days to train itself to become the strongest Go program in the world. Pretty sure chess is on a similar level of complexity as Go... yikes.
Tl;dw - A new program called AlphaGo Zero needed 3ish days to train itself to become the strongest Go program in the world. Pretty sure chess is on a similar level of complexity as Go... yikes.
That's what's so scary! Imagine finding out three days from now that chess is effectively solved!
Yep... And within the other three days, AlphaGo Zero will set its sights on us, humans. As the article referred to in the precious thread informs rather casually,
Machine-learning research from Google and others has also shown promise for extracting more ad dollars from consumers.
Yep... And within the other three days, AlphaGo Zero will set its sights on us, humans. As the article referred to in the precious thread informs rather casually, - the word "ad" will be stricken from there soon.
This was predicted (I'm sure in other places as well) in the Ender's Game universe where an AI takes over managing Ender's money and almost immediately does a better job of it than the humans could have just by examining past behaviour...
That's what's so scary! Imagine finding out three days from now that chess is effectively solved!
Not going to happen anytime soon. Computers will be many orders of magnitude better than humans at either game long before either is "solved". To merely *record* a solution to chess, the less complex of the two games, would require the use of every atom in the visible universe if we reach the point where each atom can store one bit, which we are not even remotely close to at the moment.
Not going to happen anytime soon. Computers will be many orders of magnitude better than humans at either game long before either is "solved". To merely *record* a solution to chess, the less complex of the two games, would require the use of every atom in the visible universe if we reach the point where each atom can store one bit, which we are not even remotely close to at the moment.
Effectively = actually but not officially or explicitly
Effectively = actually but not officially or explicitly
Weasel words don't change the facts. Chess will not be "effectively" solved, even in your (incorrect) sense until no one can write a computer program or create hardware that beats the previous best. Using words in the same (silly) way you do I can say that motorcycles "effectively" run at infinite velocity.
That's what's so scary! Imagine finding out three days from now that chess is effectively solved!
Even if chess were completely solved someday it wouldn't change much for humans. Not like we would be able to understand or memorize the precise series of moves in all variations that guarantee the win/draw.
I think what could be interesting is to see how long it would take for a computer programmed only with the most basic rules, and playing only games vs itself, to discover many mainline openings, and the order in which it would discover them.
"Tom is a well known racist, and like most of them he won't admit it, possibly even to himself." - Ed Seedhouse, October 4, 2020.
Weasel words don't change the facts. Chess will not be "effectively" solved, even in your (incorrect) sense until no one can write a computer program or create hardware that beats the previous best. Using words in the same (silly) way you do I can say that motorcycles "effectively" run at infinite velocity.
Lol "Weasel words" aka Adverbs.
Anyway... Chess basically can't be mathematically solved, but if a computer were to be developed that could beat every other computer on a consistent basis while drawing against an identical version of itself 100% of the time, we've "effectively" solved the game.
I know insulting people is a past time for many chesstalkers, but I'm making a good point here. Computers are already taking some of the 'magic' out of chess, but a self learning AI that supersedes any existing calculation based software would be a huge blow.
Nope, merely an accurate description of what you wrote. Look up the definition.
Anyway... Chess basically can't be mathematically solved
Actually it's easy to write a mathematical function that will solve chess. In practice the solution will take about forever to complete, but that's a practical difficulty, not a mathematical one. Chess is mathematically solvable and the mathematical solution is known. The rest is a boring practical problem that isn't of interest to mathematicians.
but if a computer were to be developed that could beat every other computer on a consistent basis while drawing against an identical version of itself 100% of the time, we've "effectively" solved the game.
But there is no evidence that this will ever happen. Even if it did it's easy to write a program that will always draw with itself so that last criterion is beside the point.
I know insulting people is a past time for many chesstalkers
I didn't insult you, if anything I "insulted" your use of language, but your use of language is not "you".
but I'm making a good point here.
Calling it a good point doesn't make it one. I think you used sloppy and confusing language to make vague and content-less "point" myself. I don't know if that's a normal thing for you.
Computers are already taking some of the 'magic' out of chess
For who? Not for me. And computers have made it possible for more people to take part in competitive chess than ever before. Computers run the internet, have you noticed?
but a self learning AI that supersedes any existing calculation based software would be a huge blow.
Yeah, in just the same way that motorcycles have resulted in all human foot races dying out because they are pointless. Oh.
Actually it's easy to write a mathematical function that will solve chess. In practice the solution will take about forever to complete, but that's a practical difficulty, not a mathematical one. Chess is mathematically solvable and the mathematical solution is known. The rest is a boring practical problem that isn't of interest to mathematicians.
Yeah, sure. But when your 'practical difficulty' becomes something theoretically impossible, I say you have kind of a problem... mathematical or not.
Tweet
Comment