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Dark Knight / Le Chevalier Noir
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---- Nous avons besoin d'un traduction français!
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[QUOTE=Precy Mckoy;13334]PWC Toronto Open was a private sponsored event, so it attracted more than what was expected.QUOTE]
Hi Precy:
In fact this is not true. Yes it had private sponsorship. But the target for the PwC Toronto Open was over 300 players. It drew only a few over 200 ( still very good by recent Toronto standards ). This was a bit of a disappointment to the organizer, Brian Fiedler.
As well, because of this, Brian personally lost on the tournament $ 5,000 - $ 10,000. Brian indicated he knew the risks when he started, and that he was happy it turned out to be such a great tournament for everyone.
LOL! I love how you are comparing a 8 player difference in prize money to a $100,000 prize pool.
Sheldon,
I see after years and years, you're still trolling the Chesstalk message boards waiting for a chance to say something that makes you look somewhat intelligent. Too bad for you, this just isn't your time...
There were 142 players TOTAL, of which a bunch were amateur players whose entry fees were minimal and did not add to the prize fund. Therefore, the difference was a lot more than just eight players.
Does my original statement make sense to you now?
My $100,000 statement was obviously a joke. Did you see the little winky eye at the end of the sentence? Or are sarcasm and humour two words that you still haven't learned?
Jordan
Last edited by Jordan S. Berson; Saturday, 29th August, 2009, 04:46 AM.
No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.
THANKS JEAN FOR ENLIGHTENING ME ON THE MATTER........
Sheldon,
You have proven once again, as you did many years ago, that it's impossible for you to be enlightened about anything that requires simple math or a grade two education to figure out.
You keep on trolling Chesstalk there Sheldon. Maybe some day, the time will come for you to shine when you find a real mistake that you can uncover for the entire world to see... until then you're just a troll with nothing intelligent to add to any conversation.
No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.
I guess an Organizer could do something different. He could post his tournament with the projected expenses ie rentals,TD costs etc. and then state their enrty fee to cover those expenses.
They can post that in order to cover expenses they would need X number of participants and then any players that enter after the estimated expenses have been paid would get 100% returned as prizes or 80% if that seems more realistic.
That way it is on the players to show up to increase their own prize fund. So if there is a low player turn out then there will be a low prize fund paid out.
This way the organizers would just be finding sites for playing chess and not guarantee any prize fund unless more than a required number of players show up. That will also not disappoint anyone because the players have not had the wool pulled over their eyes. They know up front if they do not come in droves then they will not get a great prize fund.
This may increase tournament participation as the players will know that as long as expenses have been paid all the rest of the money is for prizes.
I guess an Organizer could do something different. He could post his tournament with the projected expenses ie rentals,TD costs etc. and then state their enrty fee to cover those expenses.
They can post that in order to cover expenses they would need X number of participants and then any players that enter after the estimated expenses have been paid would get 100% returned as prizes or 80% if that seems more realistic.
That way it is on the players to show up to increase their own prize fund. So if there is a low player turn out then there will be a low prize fund paid out.
This way the organizers would just be finding sites for playing chess and not guarantee any prize fund unless more than a required number of players show up. That will also not disappoint anyone because the players have not had the wool pulled over their eyes. They know up front if they do not come in droves then they will not get a great prize fund.
This may increase tournament participation as the players will know that as long as expenses have been paid all the rest of the money is for prizes.
Exactly Mr Brown!!! Nicely said than Done! At least all the participants are well aware where the entry fees have gone. An accounting of the tournament expenses should be posted after the tournament at this forum to justify and clarify potential doubt as well as to whether a participant can make an early decision to play again or not anymore in this tournament.
I guess an Organizer could do something different. He could post his tournament with the projected expenses ie rentals,TD costs etc. and then state their enrty fee to cover those expenses.
They can post that in order to cover expenses they would need X number of participants and then any players that enter after the estimated expenses have been paid would get 100% returned as prizes or 80% if that seems more realistic.
That way it is on the players to show up to increase their own prize fund. So if there is a low player turn out then there will be a low prize fund paid out.
This way the organizers would just be finding sites for playing chess and not guarantee any prize fund unless more than a required number of players show up. That will also not disappoint anyone because the players have not had the wool pulled over their eyes. They know up front if they do not come in droves then they will not get a great prize fund.
This may increase tournament participation as the players will know that as long as expenses have been paid all the rest of the money is for prizes.
Exactly Mr Brown!!! Nicely said than Done! At least all the participants are well aware where the entry fees have gone. An accounting of the tournament expenses should be posted after the tournament at this forum to justify and clarify potential doubt as well as to whether a potential participant can make an early decision to play again or not anymore in this tournament.
It is my recollection that Bryan Lamb does always post during the latter part of the tournament a statement of revenue and expenses for the tournament.
LOL AGAIN @ your lengthy reply!! MY ONLY POINT IN MY PREVIOUS POST JUST IN CASE PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN FOLLOWING WHAT I SAID WAS AIMED AT THE COMPARISON MADE BY JORDAN, THATS IT THATS ALL BUT THANKS FOR THE OTHERWISE HEFTY REPLY THANKS JEAN FOR ENLIGHTENING ME ON THE MATTER........
regards and p.s. congrats on winning the Closed
Sheldon
I could not imagine that it took 31 long years for Mr Jean Hebert to come out and voice out his utmost
dissatisfaction to the CFC and other Canadian Chess organizations that until now, it became even worst!
He had proven at the Closed and Zonal that he could have been a Grandmaster long before, should chess tournaments
were organized the way they he was thinking. I totally agree with Jean Hebert that Titled players need
special treatments because they worked for it through out their life and they deserved respect! Masters are role
models to all aspiring players. Anyone wanted to imitate them and wanted to be like them someday but if this is
the way they are currently treated, there will be no way that chess in Canada will ever be popularized.
We need reforms and the time has finally come!
I hope chess in Canada will someday be like Jean Hebert's envisioned!!!
You have proven once again, as you did many years ago, that it's impossible for you to be enlightened about anything that requires simple math or a grade two education to figure out.
You keep on trolling Chesstalk there Sheldon. Maybe some day, the time will come for you to shine when you find a real mistake that you can uncover for the entire world to see... until then you're just a troll with nothing intelligent to add to any conversation.
Hi Jordan,
Unfortunately your trolling theory about me is incorrect. Whos the one who cant do simple math? I have posted 11 times in the last 3 or 4yrs so thanks for coming out. Once again I cant stand you! Im a loss for words unfortunately I cannot write what I really want to say to you becuase others may find it offensive while you might find it agreeable. I hope one day we can meet and discuss things in person as opposed to through the computer. Hey maybe if you can actually get a project of its feet and to completion maybe I will see you in St.Johns and we can continue our discussion in person. This of course is highly doubtful. Than again thats if you can pull it off. Good luck with your possible proposal cant wait to meet you. Although I dont think I will be impressed at all. I kind of know what to expect. BTW Unlike you I am not trying to uncover anything for the world to see, again for those and or yourself the only thing in my original message that I was trying to convey was your comparison of the amount of amateurs players to $100,000 prize fund.
regards
Sheldon
Last edited by Sheldon Ab; Saturday, 29th August, 2009, 10:45 AM.
Reason: Jordan's an idiot....
I have posted 11 times in the last 3 or 4yrs so thanks for coming out.
Thanks for coming out? lol What is that supposed to be, some sort of "I'm smarter than you" statement? HA!
As Judge Judy says: I'm smarter than you even on my dumbest day!
The last time you posted a response to a message of mine with the same retardation as yesterday was a few years ago... when it was on the old site that did not keep count of your messages. Nothing has changed in over four years, your responses are still as retarded as ever. It's almost like you still haven't passed grade two... t'is a shame, ain't it?
Why don't you go back to grade school and learn some simple grammar and punctuation before you massacre another one of your patented moron posts... or are you still 8 years old after all these years?
... the only thing in my original message that I was trying to convey was your comparison of the amount of amateurs players to $100,000 prize fund.
Whoa, one minute there. You must have already forgotten my original statement, along with your retarded response. I did not compare at any time the number of amateur players to a $100,000 prize fund. You cannot compare a number of players to an amount of money. Players and money are two different things... I think there's an episode of Sesame Street you must have missed where they talk about that.
What I said was that the organizer made a prediction of a prize fund based on a number of non-amateur players that was set much higher than last year's number, making the prize fund inflated.
Hopefully you understand now what I originally stated, however I highly doubt it. Anyway, I have better things to do with my time than educate a troll who posts unintelligible responses to a question that does not even concern him...
No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.
Thanks for coming out? lol What is that supposed to be, some sort of "I'm smarter than you" statement? HA!
As Judge Judy says: I'm smarter than you even on my dumbest day!
The last time you posted a response to a message of mine with the same retardation as yesterday was a few years ago... when it was on the old site that did not keep count of your messages. Nothing has changed in over four years, your responses are still as retarded as ever. It's almost like you still haven't passed grade two... t'is a shame, ain't it?
Why don't you go back to grade school and learn some simple grammar and punctuation before you massacre another one of your patented moron posts... or are you still 8 years old after all these years?
Whoa, one minute there. You must have already forgotten my original statement, along with your retarded response. I did not compare at any time the number of amateur players to a $100,000 prize fund. You cannot compare a number of players to an amount of money. Players and money are two different things... I think there's an episode of Sesame Street you must have missed where they talk about that.
What I said was that the organizer made a prediction of a prize fund based on a number of non-amateur players that was set much higher than last year's number, making the prize fund inflated.
Hopefully you understand now what I originally stated, however I highly doubt it. Anyway, I have better things to do with my time than educate a troll who posts unintelligible responses to a question that does not even concern him...
Jordan,
Your above post is lengthy but it still doesnt change the fact that you are an idiot. When will you have a change of faith? Youre an idiot. Sorry about that youve already publicly changed faiths, that was a wrong choice of words on my behalf. This is entertaining at best. What more can you ask for im at work waiting to go home. I am really bored and you are kind enough to entertain me with your B.S. Jordan you are trully full of it and you are an idiot. Good luck with your tournament. What does it cost to travel from Toronto to St.Johns? LOL Idiot....... P.S. Any one dumb enough to play in a tournament you run with your mentally is asking for it. I will have no mercy on them when you fudge everything up and have peoples money.
That way it is on the players to show up to increase their own prize fund. So if there is a low player turn out then there will be a low prize fund paid out.
There are major problems with that line of thinking.
1) Players who do show up should not be held responsible for those who don't; on the contrary they should be treated even better!;
2) It is up to the the organizer to make his product attractive and sell it properly. If he fails and people don't show up in the expected numbers, who is to blame ? Chess players are customers not soldiers. They have no duty to buy if they don't like the product and the prize. When customers don't buy, you try to improve the product. And if they paid for a pound of ground beef, you give them a pound of ground beef, not half a pound.
Your above post is lengthy but it still doesnt change the fact that you are an idiot. When will you have a change of faith? Youre an idiot. Sorry about that youve already publicly changed faiths, that was a wrong choice of words on my behalf. This is entertaining at best. What more can you ask for im at work waiting to go home. I am really bored and you are kind enough to entertain me with your B.S. Jordan you are trully full of it and you are an idiot. Good luck with your tournament. What does it cost to travel from Toronto to St.Johns? LOL Idiot....... P.S. Any one dumb enough to play in a tournament you run with your mentally is asking for it. I will have no mercy on them when you fudge everything up and have peoples money.
Sheldon
Wow, the guy with grade two English skills is calling me an idiot, but can't back it up with any reasoning. Are you for real?
By the way, it's "a person with your mentality"... and while we're on the subject, since you have never played in a tournament or a club that I have organized, then it's kind of ridiculous that you would remark on my organizing mentality. I ran the largest CEGEP chess club three years in a row in Quebec, our team finished top 5 in the province all those five years, and I was the head of the organizing team for the 1993 Quebec Intercollegiate Championships at Dawson College. To fund the Intercollegiate, I organized blitz tournaments at the college on Thursday nights which attracted some of the top players in the city, including GM Lesiege, IM Hebert, IM Shleifer and many others. I also organized and played two simuls around downtown Montreal to help fund the event. We ended up raising almost 50% more than what we needed to pay for security and other necessities for the Intercollegiate weekend.
That right there is more organizing experience than you have, and that was just the beginning for me.
Any one dumb enough to play in a tournament you run with your mentally is asking for it.
So now you have a chance to back that statement up with some factual evidence about my tournament and club organizing experience. But please don't reply again like you always do with nothing more than "youre an idiot" unless you back it up some factual evidence and proper punctuation... it's really a waste of cyber space when you do that.
Although I must say, your posts are a lot funnier as time goes on... it's like I'm reading the rants of a seven year old, but you're like supposed to be an adult or something.
No matter how big and bad you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone, you answer it.
There are major problems with that line of thinking.
1) Players who do show up should not be held responsible for those who don't; on the contrary they should be treated even better!;
2) It is up to the the organizer to make his product attractive and sell it properly. If he fails and people don't show up in the expected numbers, who is to blame ? Chess players are customers not soldiers. They have no duty to buy if they don't like the product and the prize. When customers don't buy, you try to improve the product. And if they paid for a pound of ground beef, you give them a pound of ground beef, not half a pound.
Hi Jean;
People were complaining that the advertised prizes were not paid out. So why advertise a product that will change in value. If a grocery store advertises a cheap price for a product to draw customers and it's sales surpassed the amount ordered and they sell out then why should a customer not get the sale price a day later. ie rain cheque. It happens but sometimes the customer cannot always get that rain cheque. So they do not get the product and they get mad. However they still shop in the Grocery store.
It is the same at chess tournaments the organizers post the high prizes to draw people but the people don't show up so the amounts are less so you don't get your rain cheque.
The only thing that should ever be guaranteed is the First Prize in the Open section. All other section prizes will be based on the number of participants. So if you don't play then you don't get an chance to play for an alternate prize.
Also who says an organizer has to post any prizes before the last round of a tournament. The Organizer gets the site and advertises there is going to be a tournament ie Labour Day at such and such location. The date on Labour Day in Ontario does not change and as long as the organizer posts somewhere long in advance then it is up to the players to come to the event not the organizer's responsibility to bring the players. It is their responsibility to secure a playing site. I do admit some sites have been below par.
The organizer then docks his expenses from the entries and gives out the prizes. If they are small then I guess the soldiers did not participate in the battle and the war was lost.
There are many arguments in both favors but the bottom line is the Organizer
organizes because they like to organize chess tournaments and get respect from the players because they organize events with good or bad turnouts.
The players play chess because they like playing chess.The prize fund is a bonus but is not a mandatory entity.
If they want to play chess for money then maybe they should look for another job.
If players turn out because of a big prize based on a number of pre entrants that was projected and then the numbers change who's fault is that? I don't think it is the organizer's fault. He said he'd pay if he got 150 paid entries. So maybe the onus is on the organizer to post his pre registration lists more often so that potential players who want to play for money can see that the numbers have to rise to make the payouts happen.
The players onus is to show up and not complain.
It's numbers that increase prize funds not Organizing.
Running a well organized tournament is another matter and I think you have voiced your opinion on that in other posts.
People were complaining that the advertised prizes were not paid out. So why advertise a product that will change in value. If a grocery store advertises a cheap price for a product to draw customers and it's sales surpassed the amount ordered and they sell out then why should a customer not get the sale price a day later. ie rain cheque. It happens but sometimes the customer cannot always get that rain cheque. So they do not get the product and they get mad. However they still shop in the Grocery store.
It is the same at chess tournaments the organizers post the high prizes to draw people but the people don't show up so the amounts are less so you don't get your rain cheque.
The only thing that should ever be guaranteed is the First Prize in the Open section. All other section prizes will be based on the number of participants. So if you don't play then you don't get an chance to play for an alternate prize.
Also who says an organizer has to post any prizes before the last round of a tournament. The Organizer gets the site and advertises there is going to be a tournament ie Labour Day at such and such location. The date on Labour Day in Ontario does not change and as long as the organizer posts somewhere long in advance then it is up to the players to come to the event not the organizer's responsibility to bring the players. It is their responsibility to secure a playing site. I do admit some sites have been below par.
The organizer then docks his expenses from the entries and gives out the prizes. If they are small then I guess the soldiers did not participate in the battle and the war was lost.
There are many arguments in both favors but the bottom line is the Organizer
organizes because they like to organize chess tournaments and get respect from the players because they organize events with good or bad turnouts.
The players play chess because they like playing chess.The prize fund is a bonus but is not a mandatory entity.
If they want to play chess for money then maybe they should look for another job.
If players turn out because of a big prize based on a number of pre entrants that was projected and then the numbers change who's fault is that? I don't think it is the organizer's fault. He said he'd pay if he got 150 paid entries. So maybe the onus is on the organizer to post his pre registration lists more often so that potential players who want to play for money can see that the numbers have to rise to make the payouts happen.
The players onus is to show up and not complain.
It's numbers that increase prize funds not Organizing.
Running a well organized tournament is another matter and I think you have voiced your opinion on that in other posts.
Hi John,
I see that we would be getting into a very difficult discussion here because I happen to believe that your views on organizing make up for a disaster in the long run. Seems to me that for you chess players are not customers but pawns at the organizer's service. Worse, those who do come to your events have to pay for those who don't, without complaining of course. To me the organizer's responsibilities go well beyond "securing a playing site". And it is not about "playing chess for money", it is about giving the customer what he expects and paid for. A good business welcomes customer complaints, because it helps them to improve their products and services. From what I read you may have a long road to travel before getting there. Give yourself a little time...
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